Mitch Marner Continued II

[TopChedder]

In reading this thread I will say it's perfectly fine to criticize Mitch, he wanted to paid like a top NHL player and that means he needs to dominate when it counts.

The fanboys who defend him no matter what need to relax, nobody is saying he is not a SUPER talented hockey player, he just fails when we need him to be at his very very best.

I am sure Mitch knows he has to be better as well.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

KOSHAN: Marner's attention to shot development could pay off, especially on power play | Toronto Sun

Is this a column that they just repeat EVERY SINGLE training camp? I mean seriously, he says the same shit every year and he and Reilly have not improved on their shots noticeably at all.

 

[ACC1224]

Is this a column that they just repeat EVERY SINGLE training camp? I mean seriously, he says the same shit every year and he and Reilly have not improved on their shots noticeably at all.

Neither has played yet this year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

To come out and say he wasn’t as engaged (whether physically or mentally) as he should have been, after having demanded and gotten that contract, is so wrong on so many levels.

First off, his contract has nothing to do with this, and the fact that you bring it up shows what the real cause of your reaction is. Second, all I did was note what he actually said, instead of the twisted way it's been interpreted and retold. Third, it's not "wrong on so many levels" to have said the things he said, and it certainly doesn't suggest that he's not "willing to do whatever it takes to win in the playoffs".

The first comment was an honest assessment of an area of that one game that he looked to improve on. Something that is pretty far down the list of ways Marner impacts the game, and something that a lot of players struggled with within their first game back in that unique situation, but something he wanted to (and did) improve.

The second comment was about the team as a whole, and it was one of the most generic comments you see in hockey when the team doesn't have the best start in a game relative to their opponent.

I'm not sure why these comments have been so wildly exaggerated, but they're things that are instantly forgotten when others say stuff like this. Really, if these comments show anything, it's that he puts emphasis on identifying and improving any areas of weakness in his own game or the team's game, because he wants to win.

 

[Captain Crunch]

First off, his contract has nothing to do with this, and the fact that you bring it up shows what the real cause of your reaction is. Second, all I did was note what he actually said, instead of the twisted way it's been interpreted and retold. Third, it's not "wrong on so many levels" to have said the things he said, and it certainly doesn't suggest that he's not "willing to do whatever it takes to win in the playoffs".

The first comment was an honest assessment of an area of that one game that he looked to improve on. Something that is pretty far down the list of ways Marner impacts the game, and something that a lot of players struggled with within their first game back in that unique situation, but something he wanted to (and did) improve.

The second comment was about the team as a whole, and it was one of the most generic comments you see in hockey when the team doesn't have the best start in a game relative to their opponent.

I'm not sure why these comments have been so wildly exaggerated, but they're things that are instantly forgotten when others say stuff like this. Really, if these comments show anything, it's that he puts emphasis on identifying and improving any areas of weakness in his own game or the team's game, because he wants to win.

Mitch Marner: "We just didn't come ready to play at the start of the game. We really do have to start on time because it's getting said a lot, and it's not good enough."

There, I put his quote back in. Please tell me where he specifically said they didn’t start on time physically. Talk about people twisting things around. smh

And didn’t we hear the same thing from this team last playoffs against Columbus? And wasn’t it in games 5 and 6 these past playoffs where they didn’t start on time? But that’s okay. We better not say anything to upset this “core”. Again, smh!

 

[Dekes For Days]

There, I put his quote back in. Please tell me where he specifically said they didn’t start on time physically.

You put the wrong quote in, for the record. The original discussion was about the "engaged" comment, where he said he wasn't as engaged "in the physicalness of play" in that one game. I addressed the quote you referenced as well, which is a fairly common response from a player when their team doesn't have the best start relative to their opponent. Both statements have been blown way, way out of proportion, like most things Leaf-related.

 

[Captain Crunch]

You put the wrong quote in, for the record. The original discussion was about the "engaged" comment, where he said he wasn't as engaged "in the physicalness of play" in that one game. I addressed the quote you referenced as well, which is a fairly common response from a player when their team doesn't have the best start relative to their opponent. Both statements have been blown way, way out of proportion, like most things Leaf-related.

Okay, so please tell me where in THIS quote from Mitch Marner that he said they weren’t engaged physically. Or did he mean physically in one quote but not the other? smh
And as far as being blown out of proportion, they wanted to be paid like prime time players, then there should never be any question of them not starting on time, ESPECIALLY during the playoffs, and when they can eliminate an opponent.
There should be no more excuses for this core. It’s put up or shut up time!

 

[Racer88]

You put the wrong quote in, for the record. The original discussion was about the "engaged" comment, where he said he wasn't as engaged "in the physicalness of play" in that one game. I addressed the quote you referenced as well, which is a fairly common response from a player when their team doesn't have the best start relative to their opponent. Both statements have been blown way, way out of proportion, like most things Leaf-related.

It shouldn’t be a quote coming from an 11 million dollar player consuming so much of the cap. he is supposed to be a talented star and he needs to start acting like it

 

[Dekes For Days]

No, I didn’t put the wrong quote in. Please tell me where in THIS quote from Mitch Marner that he said they weren’t engaged physically.

Yes, you did put the wrong quote in. I never said physicality was mentioned in the quote you're now referencing. I said it was in the "engaged" quote.

And as far as being blown out of proportion, they wanted to be paid like prime time players, then there should never be any question of them not starting on time

It shouldn’t be a quote coming from an 11 million dollar player consuming so much of the cap.

Their contracts are irrelevant. They will have their ups and downs like every other player. Though Marner isn't even really the one who "didn't start on time" that game. You see comments like this all the time from all sorts of players. It's literally a hockey cliche.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Yes, you did put the wrong quote in. I never said physicality was mentioned in the quote you're now referencing. I said it was in the "engaged" quote.


Their contracts are irrelevant. They will have their ups and downs like every other player. Though Marner isn't even really the one who "didn't start on time" that game. You see comments like this all the time from all sorts of players. It's literally a hockey cliche.

No, I believe their contracts are definitely relevant. They held firm to their demands. They obviously believe they are worth every penny. I can’t really understand not being ready for one playoff game, but it’s totally unacceptable to not be ready in two straight playoff games. And yes, Marner was just as guilty as the others.

 

[Dekes For Days]

No, I believe their contracts are definitely relevant. They held firm to their demands. They obviously believe they are worth every penny.

They are worth every penny. Their contracts do not make them immune from the normal ups and downs that all players and teams experience. Marner wasn't even really the issue in the start of that game being referenced. Marner saying some cliche line about the team needing to start better isn't something to hold against him.

 

[egd27]

You put the wrong quote in, for the record. The original discussion was about the "engaged" comment, where he said he wasn't as engaged "in the physicalness of play" in that one game. I addressed the quote you referenced as well, which is a fairly common response from a player when their team doesn't have the best start relative to their opponent. Both statements have been blown way, way out of proportion, like most things Leaf-related.

How about you add the quote you keep referencing instead of denying the validity of the quotes others are actually looking up and adding?

Twice now, Marner has admitted to not being ready to go in the post season, regardless of the specific words used.

That's a problem.

 

[Racer88]

Yes, you did put the wrong quote in. I never said physicality was mentioned in the quote you're now referencing. I said it was in the "engaged" quote.


Their contracts are irrelevant. They will have their ups and downs like every other player. Though Marner isn't even really the one who "didn't start on time" that game. You see comments like this all the time from all sorts of players. It's literally a hockey cliche.

In a hard cap system contracts alway matter otherwise teams wouldn’t have entire department to help navigate the cap.

 

[Cleetus]

In a hard cap system contracts alway matter otherwise teams wouldn’t have entire department to help navigate the cap.

exactly! good point

 

[Captain Crunch]

They are worth every penny. Their contracts do not make them immune from the normal ups and downs that all players and teams experience. Marner wasn't even really the issue in the start of that game being referenced. Marner saying some cliche line about the team needing to start better isn't something to hold against him.

To go out in the 1st round 5 straight years, the last two where you were the favoured team, and this last one in epic fashion, and not starting on time in games 5 and 6 when you could have eliminated them, is something you could definitely hold against them. They want to be paid like they’re among the elite, then there is absolutely NO excuse for the slow starts they had in those games.
And you’re surely sticking your head in the sand if you’re saying that this is part of the normal ups and downs for players and teams. I believe it’s more a sense of entitlement that management has given them.

 

[Dekes For Days]

denying the validity of the quotes others are actually looking up and adding?

I haven't "denied the validity of the quotes". I pointed out that he was quoting one quote while discussing the other.

Twice now, Marner has admitted to not being ready to go in the post season, regardless of the specific words used.

That's not true. One time, he said that he wasn't as engaged physically, in the first game back after not playing for months, in a pandemic environment with no fans, when many players were struggling to adjust. The other time, he made a common cliche comment about the team needing to start better.

In a hard cap system contracts alway matter otherwise teams wouldn’t have entire department to help navigate the cap.

Contracts matter, but they are not relevant to this discussion. Their contracts do not make them immune from the normal ups and downs that all players and teams experience. Expecting them to be 100% perfect and dominant at all times in every way is unrealistic.

To go out in the 1st round 5 straight years, the last two where you were the favoured team, and this last one in epic fashion, and not starting on time in games 5 and 6 when you could have eliminated them, is something you could definitely hold against them.

Problems with your particular interpretation of what's happened aside, there may very well be things to "hold against them". Those comments are not one of those things.

They want to be paid like they’re among the elite, then there is absolutely NO excuse for the slow starts they had in those games.

The less than ideal start in those games wasn't really them, but also, all elite players have slow starts to games from time to time.

I believe it’s more a sense of entitlement that management has given them.

There's nothing to suggest there's a "sense of entitlement".

 

[Havoc]

I haven't "denied the validity of the quotes". I pointed out that he was quoting one quote while discussing the other.

That's not true. One time, he said that he wasn't as engaged physically, in the first game back after not playing for months, in a pandemic environment with no fans, when many players were struggling to adjust. The other time, he made a common cliche comment about the team needing to start better.

Contracts matter, but they are not relevant to this discussion. Their contracts do not make them immune from the normal ups and downs that all players and teams experience. Expecting them to be 100% perfect and dominant at all times in every way is unrealistic.

Problems with your particular interpretation of what's happened aside, there may very well be things to "hold against them". Those comments are not one of those things.

The less than ideal start in those games wasn't really them, but also, all elite players have slow starts to games from time to time.

There's nothing to suggest there's a "sense of entitlement".

Marner was the only one who had to take time off? The whole league had to take 5 months off then play in quarantine. The stars who showed up and were engaged aren't making quotes like his. Stop making excuses for him. He has been useless in the last 2 1/2 post seasons and he knows it. That's the only fact you need.

It's absolutely ridiculous to hear someone whose supposed to carry the team in the playoffs utter the words Marner has said 2 years in a row.

We have back to back first round losses to inferior teams to support Marners quotes don't deserve defending the way you're defending them.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner was the only one who had to take time off?

No, and he's far from the only one who wasn't 100% perfect in every possible aspect of play in the first game back.

He has been useless in the last 2 1/2 post seasons

He hasn't been useless at all.

It's absolutely ridiculous to hear someone whose supposed to carry the team in the playoffs utter the words Marner has said 2 years in a row.

There's nothing wrong with his comments. You're blowing it way out of proportion.

We have back to back first round losses to inferior teams

Then be upset about that; not some nothing quotes.

 

[Stephen]

That's not true. One time, he said that he wasn't as engaged physically, in the first game back after not playing for months, in a pandemic environment with no fans, when many players were struggling to adjust. The other time, he made a common cliche comment about the team needing to start better.

1:19 "Again, we just didn't come out ready to play at the start of the game. We say it too often. But ah... you know, ah, they had their chance at the start of the game... Soup was huge for us as usual, we just gotta make sure we really do start on time, it's getting said a lot and it's not good enough."

Marner's self assessment is very straight forward, accurate and doesn't really require additional layers of interpretation to understand. Hopefully he's learned how to start in those big games and we don't have to hear these kinds of comments in the future.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner's self assessment is very straight forward, accurate and doesn't really require additional layers of interpretation to understand.

Marner's assessment of the team's performance was very straightforward, and you're right, it doesn't require layers of additional interpretation. He said the team needed to start better. That's it. It's said all the time by all sorts of players when their team doesn't have a great start.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I haven't "denied the validity of the quotes". I pointed out that he was quoting one quote while discussing the other.

That's not true. One time, he said that he wasn't as engaged physically, in the first game back after not playing for months, in a pandemic environment with no fans, when many players were struggling to adjust. The other time, he made a common cliche comment about the team needing to start better.

Contracts matter, but they are not relevant to this discussion. Their contracts do not make them immune from the normal ups and downs that all players and teams experience. Expecting them to be 100% perfect and dominant at all times in every way is unrealistic.

Problems with your particular interpretation of what's happened aside, there may very well be things to "hold against them". Those comments are not one of those things.

The less than ideal start in those games wasn't really them, but also, all elite players have slow starts to games from time to time.

There's nothing to suggest there's a "sense of entitlement".

Yes, all elite players have slow starts to games from time to time. A few Leafs just decide to do it in crucial times.
Dekes, you must be some type of lawyer because you can certainly twist things around. At least I manned up and admitted that Marner’s quote I had shared wasn’t the one you were talking about. You still can’t/won’t admit that he admitted that they, which includes Marner by the way, were not prepared to start those two potential clinching games against the Habs. Why would he use a cliche there but not in his other quote? Wait, don’t answer that. I think I know why, it’s because your hero might not look good! Just wow!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes, all elite players have slow starts to games from time to time. A few Leafs just decide to do it in crucial times.

Do you think every team that has an elite player always starts every playoff game dominating the other team? How about the middle? How about the end? Surely if they're elite, the team they are on has to dominate their opponent in every second of every playoff game, or the elite player doesn't care and isn't prepared, right? What if both teams have elite players? Does the universe implode?

You still can’t/won’t admit that he admitted that they, which includes Marner by the way, were not prepared to start those two potential clinching games against the Habs.

I acknowledged what Marner actually said, which was that the team needed to start better in game 6.

 

[egd27]

That's not true. One time, he said that he wasn't as engaged physically, in the first game back after not playing for months, in a pandemic environment with no fans, when many players were struggling to adjust. The other time, he made a common cliche comment about the team needing to start better.

Would you mind sharing a link to the quote you keep referencing.....some people may remember it differently.

As for the second, yes it's a common cliche that is used when teams come out flat. That's what people are annoyed about. Games 5, 6, & 7 they came out flat.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Do you think every team that has an elite player always starts every playoff game dominating the other team? How about the middle? How about the end? Surely if they're elite, the team they are on has to dominate their opponent in every second of every playoff game, or the elite player doesn't care and isn't prepared, right? What if both teams have elite players? Does the universe implode?

I acknowledged what Marner actually said, which was that the team needed to start better in game 6.[/QUOTE

 

[Captain Crunch]

Do you think every team that has an elite player always starts every playoff game dominating the other team? How about the middle? How about the end? Surely if they're elite, the team they are on has to dominate their opponent in every second of every playoff game, or the elite player doesn't care and isn't prepared, right? What if both teams have elite players? Does the universe implode?

I acknowledged what Marner actually said, which was that the team needed to start better in game 6.

To dominate the other team is one thing, to show up and compete is another. Why couldn’t they at least have shown up in those games. They were manhandled. It would be totally different if they had at least matched the Habs intensity, but they didn’t. So no, no one in their right mind would expect one team to dominate the other for an entire game. But at least grow a set of balls and fight back. There was NO excuse for them to start game 6 the same way they did game 5.
The thing that has hurt this team is they don’t have the killer instinct. It’s like they wilt under the pressure. Two years in a row they have done this. Have to hope the third time’s a charm, because if they miss the playoffs or go out in the 1st round again, no one from management down should feel their job is safe. They have A LOT to prove, because let’s face it, are fans going to be satisfied with them winning the 1st round, only to lose in the 2nd round? Very doubtful.