Mitch Marner Continued II

[CabanaBoy5]

You’re reading into a couple of press conferences way too much and grasping at straws to get your shot in at Marner.

I agree I'm getting my shots in, but I'm not grasping at straws. The kid lost me when he said it was a dream to play for the Leafs, then held out for a ridiculous $11 million dollar contract from his dream team that has constrained the team from making improvements (his agent moaned that Matthews didn't take a discount). He lost me with me his poor playoff performances admitting that he wasn't "engaged" early on in big games(0 goals in 18 games, numerous puck over board penalties all reek of not being ready). And yes, he's lost me with his attitude in these press conferences. He's a talented player who has alot of growing up to do at 24. Start to perform like an $11 million player in the playoffs and I'll stop taking shots at the guy. With big money come big expectations.

 

[ZEBROA]

Regular season, or playoffs?

Playoffs i hope. No i hope all of them are great in the playoffs. But if Nylander is moved to the left and PP1, he might be great. Realy not sure about Tavares.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree I'm getting my shots in, but I'm not grasping at straws. The kid lost me when he said it was a dream to play for the Leafs, then held out for a ridiculous $11 million dollar contract from his dream team that has constrained the team from making improvements (his agent moaned that Matthews didn't take a discount). He lost me with me his poor playoff performances admitting that he wasn't "engaged" early on in big games(0 goals in 18 games, numerous puck over board penalties all reek of not being ready). And yes, he's lost me with his attitude in these press conferences. He's a talented player who has alot of growing up to do at 24. Start to perform like an $11 million player in the playoffs and I'll stop taking shots at the guy. With big money come big expectations.

Well said. All the things you mention, take one in isolation and it's not so hard to forget about it. But pile them all on top of each other and it's a pretty big pile that's hard to ignore. Like you said, with big money come big expectations and that is indeed the bottom line.

Playoffs i hope. No i hope all of them are great in the playoffs. But if Nylander is moved to the left and PP1, he might be great. Realy not sure about Tavares.

Tavares is a seasoned pro and out of those three, I'd be most confident in him playing up to expectations in the playoffs.

 

[ACC1224]

You’re reading into a couple of press conferences way too much and grasping at straws to get your shot in at Marner.

Seems to be a disease here a few are infected with.
He needs to be better, he knows he needs to be better.
Trying to be Kreskin and read his mind from a few press clippings is pretty silly.
Some will rage on regardless, pretty sad.

 

[Sypher04]

Let’s not act like there was anything marner could have said in a day 1 training camp interview that would satisfy people. If you’re not going to be swayed in any way until you see him do it in the playoffs (which is not unfair) then maybe get off his back while he plays the games you don’t care about

 

[ACC1224]

Let’s not act like there was anything marner could have said in a day 1 training camp interview that would satisfy people. If you’re not going to be swayed in any way until you see him do it in the playoffs (which is not unfair) then maybe get off his back while he plays the games you don’t care about

This, 1000%.
Going to be a long season I'm afraid.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Let’s not act like there was anything marner could have said in a day 1 training camp interview that would satisfy people. If you’re not going to be swayed in any way until you see him do it in the playoffs (which is not unfair) then maybe get off his back while he plays the games you don’t care about

I understand what you're saying but it's not just about the playoff performance for me. I need to see growth in maturity from this now 24 year old. It will take a lot to change my perception of him as a result of the whole negotiation process. The "pay me or I'll take my sticks to Switzerland" attitude may never be forgiven. However, for the sake of all Leaf fans, I hope we see growth and a change in attitude in the playoffs.

 

[Sypher04]

I understand what you're saying but it's not just about the playoff performance for me. I need to see growth in maturity from this now 24 year old. It will take a lot to change my perception of him as a result of the whole negotiation process. The "pay me or I'll take my sticks to Switzerland" attitude may never be forgiven. However, for the sake of all Leaf fans, I hope we see growth and a change in attitude in the playoffs.

fwiw, I meant that comment very generally and not pointed at any one person (hence no quote), as the flack regarding marner here daily has grown very tiresome. Especially so when so many here are self proclaimed that they don’t even care until the playoffs. That isn’t to say that he hasn’t earned his fair share of criticism, but when is enough enough?

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Seems to be a disease here a few are infected with.
He needs to be better, he knows he needs to be better.
Trying to be Kreskin and read his mind from a few press clippings is pretty silly.
Some will rage on regardless, pretty sad.

You are way too forgiving of a guy who claims he wasn't "engaged" at the beginning of playoff games. But you do you.

As for trying to be Kreskin, there is alot that can be discerned from a person's body positioning, what is said, and how it is said, during interviews. I suggest you look up body language experts and look at some of their work. They would have had a field day with Marner during these press conferences.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You are way too forgiving of a guy who claims he wasn't "engaged" at the beginning of playoff games.

That's not what he said. He said he wasn't as engaged physically, in specifically the first game back after not playing for months, in a pandemic environment with no fans. This is a perfect example of how literally anything he (or his agent) says (and apparently even things like his "body positioning") is twisted into whatever people want it to be to fit their pre-existing perceptions.

 

[Mugzy97]

I agree I'm getting my shots in, but I'm not grasping at straws. The kid lost me when he said it was a dream to play for the Leafs, then held out for a ridiculous $11 million dollar contract from his dream team that has constrained the team from making improvements (his agent moaned that Matthews didn't take a discount). He lost me with me his poor playoff performances admitting that he wasn't "engaged" early on in big games(0 goals in 18 games, numerous puck over board penalties all reek of not being ready). And yes, he's lost me with his attitude in these press conferences. He's a talented player who has alot of growing up to do at 24. Start to perform like an $11 million player in the playoffs and I'll stop taking shots at the guy. With big money come big expectations.

I believe he deserves some of the criticism he receives, but blaming him for the contract seems absurd to me. He has an agent that negotiates for him and obviously Leafs management believed he was worth the amount or they wouldn't have signed it. Also saying he has attitude in his press conferences is just your perception, I don't think he has any bad intentions or bad attitude at all. I think he genuinely wants to succeed and be the hero, maybe putting too much pressure on himself.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

fwiw, I meant that comment very generally and not pointed at any one person (hence no quote), as the flack regarding marner here daily has grown very tiresome. Especially so when so many here are self proclaimed that they don’t even care until the playoffs. That isn’t to say that he hasn’t earned his fair share of criticism, but when is enough enough?

Fair enough. To suggest that the regular season doesn't matter is ridiculous. I look forward to a 100 point regular season from Marner and will enjoy every minute of his success. But, be aware that he will ultimately be judged on his playoffs, and if he puts up another stinker, he will deserve every bit of vitriol that will go his way.

 

[egd27]

Because of his immaturity and sense of entitlement, he doesn’t come across sincerely when he speaks to the media. He’s guarded.

IMO a lot of that also stems from the fact that he isn't particularly bright, so he has likely been instructed to keep his comments to a minimum.

 

[Dekes For Days]

A lot of that also stems from the fact that he isn't particularly bright

I see we've moved on to defamatory statements about his intelligence.

 

[Sypher04]

Fair enough. To suggest that the regular season doesn't matter is ridiculous. I look forward to a 100 point regular season from Marner and will enjoy every minute of his success. But, be aware that he will ultimately be judged on his playoffs, and if he puts up another stinker, he will deserve every bit of vitriol that will go his way.

obviously, the time for a big playoff showing was last year, but in lieu of that this fanbase will rightly demand it this year, and should he deliver he will return to god status. The ebbs and flows of fandom.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

That's not what he said. He said he wasn't as engaged physically, in specifically the first game back after not playing for months, in a pandemic environment with no fans. This is a perfect example of how literally anything he (or his agent) says (and apparently even things like his "body positioning") is twisted into whatever people want it to be to fit their pre-existing perceptions.

Which means he wasn't engaged! I saw many players earning a hell of a lot less than Marner, engaged in those play-ins. Players can come up with many excuses for not playing up to expectations, but in the end, they're just that, excuses.

Pre-existing perceptions? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. He simply has not performed to expectation in the playoffs.

 

[egd27]

That's not what he said. He said he wasn't as engaged physically, in specifically the first game back after not playing for months, in a pandemic environment with no fans. This is a perfect example of how literally anything he (or his agent) says (and apparently even things like his "body positioning") is twisted into whatever people want it to be to fit their pre-existing perceptions.

May 29, 2021


What did he mean there that is being "twisted"?

Is it because the actual word "engaged" wasn't used?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Which means he wasn't engaged!

No, it doesn't. It means he wasn't engaged physically, in one game, where a lot of people struggled with the same thing due to the unique situation.

 

[egd27]

I see we've moved on to defamatory statements about his intelligence.

You are correct......I should have said IMO. I will amend

 

[ACC1224]

May 29, 2021


What did he mean there that is being "twisted"?

Is it because the actual word "engaged" wasn't used?

'We' not himself and starting on time has always been a problem for this team.

 

[ACC1224]

You are correct......I should have said IMO. I will amend

You're right. Great kid but not the sharpest spoon.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What did he mean there that is being "twisted"?

He's saying the team needed to start better. Pretty normal response, given how that game went.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

May 29, 2021


What did he mean there that is being "twisted"?

Is it because the actual word "engaged" wasn't used?

Marner used the word engaged during the Columbus series in 2020. But that quote does tell us that he hasn't been ready to play in two playoff series in a row, whether we use the word "engaged" or not, or whether we attach "physically" or mentally to it.

 

[egd27]

He's saying the team needed to start better. Pretty normal response, given how that game went.

So we'll just pretend the bolded part that I was addressing never was written? I'm good with it.

That's not what he said. He said he wasn't as engaged physically, in specifically the first game back after not playing for months, in a pandemic environment with no fans. This is a perfect example of how literally anything he (or his agent) says (and apparently even things like his "body positioning") is twisted into whatever people want it to be to fit their pre-existing perceptions.

I'll await your comment as I understand your need to have the last word.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So we'll just pretend the bolded part that I was addressing never was written?

Don't need to pretend anything. My statement holds true. Marner's "engaged" statement that was being referenced was about him not being as engaged physically, in specifically the first game back after not playing for months, in an isolated pandemic environment with no fans.

The statement you're referencing really has nothing to do with anything. It's an incredibly generic statement about the team's performance in a portion of a game.