Mitch Marner Continued II

[socko]

Clarkson and Marleau were both UFAs. Marner's contract was an assault to the entire NHL salary structure it was so out of whack. Rantanen waited out the Marner contract and still was not able to get anywhere close to it. I have a hard time understanding how Marner is better than Rantanen, I certainly have it the opposite. I understand Marner has had some high end point totals, but he brings little else to the game: he still plays junior hockey, he does flybys, he won't engage physically, he can't score to save his life. He's basically the player we all feared Nylander would become: soft as butter and full of himself. He should be paid at the lowest end possible of his point total based on all of his flaws and dependence on others for production.

 

[janesy12]

Not even being a homer, I think Marner is better than Rantanen. So 2nd of the two.

agreed, they definitely should have bridged him. But from my understanding is he was not willing to sign a bridge deal. Neither was Matthews. So we can sit here and be pissed about it all we want, he made it clear a bridge wasn’t happening. Maybe management also decided they would end up paying more after a bridge deal. We’ll never know. Also it’s easy from a fans perspective to sit here and say Marner is selfish, give me a break. Are you gonna take 9 million or you going to take 10.9 million? Don’t fool yourself anyone in their right mind is taking more money if it’s on the table. Don’t be pissed at Marner, be pissed at Dubas lol.

I'm pissed at both. He and his father have been whining since the day Matthews was drafted. Pouting to the media about not being compared to McDavid during the draft, and Matthews after his draft. Demanding a letter on his jersey, wanting Auston's contract. He's been trouble the entire time. Remember the Babcock story about Mitch being asked which vets on the team didn't have a good work ethic etc? Why do you think it was Mitch in that situation and no other player?

He's a selfish player. Sure, he can put up some points when given a very gifted centre, but he never dominates, or takes over a game. Which is ideally what you'd like to see out of this $10.9 million winger.

 

[francis246]

I'm pissed at both. He and his father have been whining since the day Matthews was drafted. Pouting to the media about not being compared to McDavid during the draft, and Matthews after his draft. Demanding a letter on his jersey, wanting Auston's contract. He's been trouble the entire time. Remember the Babcock story about Mitch being asked which vets on the team didn't have a good work ethic etc? Why do you think it was Mitch in that situation and no other player?

He's a selfish player. Sure, he can put up some points when given a very gifted centre, but he never dominates, or takes over a game. Which is ideally what you'd like to see out of this $10.9 million winger.

I quite like your posts and our discussion, but I gotta end it here on this. It’s not the players responsibility to manage the cap. They have to look out for themselves at the end of the day. So I can’t fault him for wanting the most money possible. It’s on the team to manage the cap and ensure they are not handcuffing themselves. It’s really sad that Marner has been underwhelming in the playoffs and has not been outstanding to start the season People are so pissed, rightfully so. But JFC, let’s let it go already haha. People are acting like he’s not elite and can’t drive play and it simply isn’t true. He’s having a slow start for sure, but some of the things being said is just harboured anger from the playoffs. It’s truly sad

 

[janesy12]

I quite like your posts and our discussion, but I gotta end it here on this. It’s not the players responsibility to manage the cap. They have to look out for themselves at the end of the day. So I can’t fault him for wanting the most money possible. It’s on the team to manage the cap and ensure they are not handcuffing themselves. It’s really sad that Marner has been underwhelming in the playoffs and has not been outstanding to start the season People are so pissed, rightfully so. But JFC, let’s let it go already haha. People are acting like he’s not elite and can’t drive play and it simply isn’t true. He’s having a slow start for sure, but some of the things being said is just harboured anger from the playoffs. It’s truly sad

While I agree the team definitely should manage the cap, let's hope for everyone's sake Marner turns it around, because that's an expensive player to just ride shotgun.

 

[francis246]

While I agree the team definitely should manage the cap, let's hope for everyone's sake Marner turns it around, because that's an expensive player to just ride shotgun.

If they don’t get it done, it’s probably likely he gets traded. But I don’t want to see that happen. I hope he gets hot soon!

 

[Zybalto]

Almost everybody on that top 20 list was a UFA at the time of signing (I think only McDavid, Matthews, Marner and Eichel were RFAs).
Dubas paid Marner like he was a UFA and to make matters worse he didn't even get him signed for max term. It's a terrible deal

Overpaid by 2 million is only "slightly" overpaid in your books? Ooooooooooooooooooooooookay then.



This. Can't believe people are still defending Marner's contract.

I understand what you guys are saying but last year Marner had the 4th most points in hockey (so 4th place for the Art Ross), was one of the top Pkers in the league and was voted the top RWer in hockey(1st team all star) and into the top ten for Selke votes as the 7th highest paid player. On it's face it looks like he earned his contract last year, especially when compared against the herd of top salary earners. Do you think he earned his contract last year?

Considering all 6 players above him have also had equal or worse playoff success last year, it starts to look very strange why so much effort is put into tearing him down. I really don't hold it against players for lack of team success as so many do simply because there are so many variables to consider. He's a 24 year old elite player and being paid like one. There are 31 other teams that would gladly snap him up at his cap hit in a heartbeat and would make room to do so, even teams up against the cap (who would clear room for sure).

Just like Nylander after he signed his deal and struggled that first year, Marner is now massively underrated by the fanbase and not because he did any major thing wrong in the playoffs but because his goalies couldn't make the big save. Complaining about him taking a bad penalty when he's taken fewer than average penalties over his career and the Leafs have never given up a PP goal with him in the box in the playoffs. Complaining about his scoring when the Leafs top players have scored at a higher proportion than depth players from the regular season to the playoffs. You watched the game last night, right? That's one of the best teams in the league and still lost. It's going to happen.....but they are still one of the best teams in the league and Marner s one of the best players in the league.

Like I said before, there are so many other things to talk/complain about than quibbling about a million or two on a superstar caphit. The Mrazek situation, the Ritchie signing, defensive personnel, special teams, is Tavares feeling the effects of the injury, etc. etc.

 

[Zybalto]

Goals scored/60 while on the ice 5v5 over the last 3 years:

Marner and Matthews: 3.61

Matthews without Marner: 3.18

Marner without Matthews: 3.44

Rest of the team: 2.48

 

[Zybalto]

Goals scored/60 while on the PP over the last 3 years:

Marner and Matthews: 9.03

Matthews without Marner: 4.57

Marner without Matthews: 11.03

Rest of the team: 5.03

 

[kevsh]

Mitch is 0 for 13 on shots so far, suggesting when he said he was working on his shot this summer I'm thinking he was focused too much on EA's Shot Power vs. Shot Accuracy.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I understand what you guys are saying but last year Marner had the 4th most points in hockey (so 4th place for the Art Ross), was one of the top Pkers in the league and was voted the top RWer in hockey(1st team all star) and into the top ten for Selke votes as the 7th highest paid player. On it's face it looks like he earned his contract last year, especially when compared against the herd of top salary earners. Do you think he earned his contract last year?

Considering all 6 players above him have also had equal or worse playoff success last year, it starts to look very strange why so much effort is put into tearing him down. I really don't hold it against players for lack of team success as so many do simply because there are so many variables to consider. He's a 24 year old elite player and being paid like one. There are 31 other teams that would gladly snap him up at his cap hit in a heartbeat and would make room to do so, even teams up against the cap (who would clear room for sure).

Just like Nylander after he signed his deal and struggled that first year, Marner is now massively underrated by the fanbase and not because he did any major thing wrong in the playoffs but because his goalies couldn't make the big save. Complaining about him taking a bad penalty when he's taken fewer than average penalties over his career and the Leafs have never given up a PP goal with him in the box in the playoffs. Complaining about his scoring when the Leafs top players have scored at a higher proportion than depth players from the regular season to the playoffs. You watched the game last night, right? That's one of the best teams in the league and still lost. It's going to happen.....but they are still one of the best teams in the league and Marner s one of the best players in the league.

Like I said before, there are so many other things to talk/complain about than quibbling about a million or two on a superstar caphit. The Mrazek situation, the Ritchie signing, defensive personnel, special teams, is Tavares feeling the effects of the injury, etc. etc.

Bolded 1:
He more or less earned his contract during the regular season but fell off a cliff in the playoffs.

Bolded 2:
Um what? Our goalie let in one bad goal in 7 games and just like the CLB series, our goalie was one of our best players. Sorry but you're not making any sense here.

Bolded3:
It's two, and that's a lot.

 

[Notsince67]

Mitch is 0 for 13 on shots so far, suggesting when he said he was working on his shot this summer I'm thinking he was focused too much on EA's Shot Power vs. Shot Accuracy.

What do you expect for 13 shots? More than a goal? You shitting on him for not scoring one goal?

 

[kevsh]

What do you expect for 13 shots? More than a goal? You shitting on him for not scoring one goal?

Relax, it was in jest.
Maybe I should've added an emoji to drive home the point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Goals scored/60 while on the PP over the last 3 years:

Marner and Matthews: 9.03

Matthews without Marner: 4.57

Marner without Matthews: 11.03

Rest of the team: 5.03

You are aware that our PP was the laughing stock of the league last season, right?

I suggest you stop bombarding us with all kinds of regular season numbers. Most people are fine with how Marner played during the regular season but nobody cares. He needs to perform in the playoffs, that he hasn't done for a few years in a row now and until he does, the regular season numbers are a big who cares burger.

 

[janesy12]

I understand what you guys are saying but last year Marner had the 4th most points in hockey (so 4th place for the Art Ross), was one of the top Pkers in the league and was voted the top RWer in hockey(1st team all star) and into the top ten for Selke votes as the 7th highest paid player. On it's face it looks like he earned his contract last year, especially when compared against the herd of top salary earners. Do you think he earned his contract last year?

Considering all 6 players above him have also had equal or worse playoff success last year, it starts to look very strange why so much effort is put into tearing him down. I really don't hold it against players for lack of team success as so many do simply because there are so many variables to consider. He's a 24 year old elite player and being paid like one. There are 31 other teams that would gladly snap him up at his cap hit in a heartbeat and would make room to do so, even teams up against the cap (who would clear room for sure).

Just like Nylander after he signed his deal and struggled that first year, Marner is now massively underrated by the fanbase and not because he did any major thing wrong in the playoffs but because his goalies couldn't make the big save. Complaining about him taking a bad penalty when he's taken fewer than average penalties over his career and the Leafs have never given up a PP goal with him in the box in the playoffs. Complaining about his scoring when the Leafs top players have scored at a higher proportion than depth players from the regular season to the playoffs. You watched the game last night, right? That's one of the best teams in the league and still lost. It's going to happen.....but they are still one of the best teams in the league and Marner s one of the best players in the league.

Like I said before, there are so many other things to talk/complain about than quibbling about a million or two on a superstar caphit. The Mrazek situation, the Ritchie signing, defensive personnel, special teams, is Tavares feeling the effects of the injury, etc. etc.

He hasn't scored a playoff goal since April 11th, 2019. 18 games. It's not that he's doing anything wrong in the playoffs, it's just that he isn't doing much of anything. Scoring at just above a .55 ppg game pace, at the 7th highest cap hit in the league.
While Tavares/Matthews have also had their share of poor performances (especially against the Habs for Matthews) Marner has been rough to watch.

 

[Notsince67]

Relax, it was in jest.
Maybe I should've added an emoji to drive home the point.

Sorry bout that. By sarcasm detector has been thrown off by the contant bombardment of hot takes around here

 

[notbias]

He hasn't scored a playoff goal since April 11th, 2019. 18 games. It's not that he's doing anything wrong in the playoffs, it's just that he isn't doing much of anything. Scoring at just above a .55 ppg game pace, at the 7th highest cap hit in the league.
While Tavares/Matthews have also had their share of poor performances (especially against the Habs for Matthews) Marner has been rough to watch.

I can't take anyone serious who thinks Matthews was not good in the Habs series.

 

[janesy12]

I can't take anyone serious who thinks Matthews was not good in the Habs series.

I meant strictly goal scoring. He had lots of chances, and some poor luck. Statically speaking.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Bolded 1:
He more or less earned his contract during the regular season but fell off a cliff in the playoffs.

Bolded 2:
Um what? Our goalie let in one bad goal in 7 games and just like the CLB series, our goalie was one of our best players. Sorry but you're not making any sense here.

Bolded3:
It's two, and that's a lot.

Campbell wasn't great in Games 5-7. He was great in Games 1-4. Although Andersen certainly was not one of our best players in the CBJ series... Not our only issue, but certainly one of our worst players.

I agree about Marner though, and I think he is looked much of the same in the first four games of this season offensively. Just not quite as sharp as he should be.

 

[notbias]

I meant strictly goal scoring. He had lots of chances, and some poor luck. Statically speaking.

I'll agree he had bad puck luck, but he also lead the Leafs in virtually every other statistic for forwards, takeaways, blocked shots, hits, I thought he was really effective even if he struggled to score.

I just find a lot of fans check the scoreboard after the game to see who played well and who didn't.

For example, I've seen everyone saying Marner played terrible last night when I thought he had a really effective game and set up a lot of nice scoring chances.

 

[francis246]

Mitch is 0 for 13 on shots so far, suggesting when he said he was working on his shot this summer I'm thinking he was focused too much on EA's Shot Power vs. Shot Accuracy.

he doesn’t play NHL. In the pre season media availability this was addressed

 

[janesy12]

I'll agree he had bad puck luck, but he also lead the Leafs in virtually every other statistic for forwards, takeaways, blocked shots, hits, I thought he was really effective even if he struggled to score.

I just find a lot of fans check the scoreboard after the game to see who played well and who didn't.

For example, I've seen everyone saying Marner played terrible last night when I thought he had a really effective game and set up a lot of nice scoring chances.

I'll agree it was his best game of the year, but I'll also give credit to the fact that 34 returned. The team was dominant and got goalied.
I'd just like Marner to take control of games. He's paid like it, let's see it.

 

[notbias]

I'll agree it was his best game of the year, but I'll also give credit to the fact that 34 returned. The team was dominant and got goalied.
I'd just like Marner to take control of games. He's paid like it, let's see it.

He was effective the third game of the season too, we have a 5v5 shooting percentage of like 4% right now, it is going to be tough to get points with that.

I think he has started slow but has looked a lot better the last two games. I am not too worried about him long-term, he has shown flashes this season where he can control a shift by himself.

 

[janesy12]

He was effective the third game of the season too, we have a 5v5 shooting percentage of like 4% right now, it is going to be tough to get points with that.

I think he has started slow but has looked a lot better the last two games. I am not too worried about him long-term, he has shown flashes this season where he can control a shift by himself.

I hope you're correct. because another first round exit and a poor Marner showing and someone is likely headed out.

 

[notbias]

I hope you're correct. because another first round exit and a poor Marner showing and he'll be out the door.

I wish NHL teams did this to superstars, we may end up with McDavid before he is a free agent.

 

[Stephen]

I'll agree he had bad puck luck, but he also lead the Leafs in virtually every other statistic for forwards, takeaways, blocked shots, hits, I thought he was really effective even if he struggled to score.

I just find a lot of fans check the scoreboard after the game to see who played well and who didn't.

For example, I've seen everyone saying Marner played terrible last night when I thought he had a really effective game and set up a lot of nice scoring chances.

Two thoughts. I thought the Rangers game was a great effort by the Leafs from an eye test point of view in addition to the numbers we saw accompanying the action. I also thought the Leafs poured it on vs Montreal in Game 6 OT, but have some nagging feeling that they weren’t quite as in control as it looked or the shot count would indicate.

I’ve been tracking along their cycle game and one of my working theories is teams are finding ways to push them to weird angles and forcing them to take shots with odd body positioning. They maintain zone time and get their shot counts but the looks they get and the rebound chances there are maybe not ideal because there are always bodies in between boxing them out or they’re not facing the net on the scramble.

Just want to note that and to see it we run into a suspicious number of high shot, low scoring games where we get “goalied”.