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Mitch Marner Continued II

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socko said:
It's one of the most mind numbingly bad contracts ever given out in NHL history. Most bad contracts are UFA. For an RFA contract to be this bad, it seldom happens.
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Point per game for his career. Over paid probably? But slightly. It’s not even close to being a bad contract. He wasn’t getting anything lower than 9 million at the end of the day. Some of the newer extensions are way worse.
 
Zybalto said:
6th most points and 2nd most primary assists in the NHL since he signed the contract but we all know its the playoffs that are gonna change minds no matter what he does during the regular season.

Been a little snakebit (mostly by a number of other players not finishing) this year but his underlying offensive stats are off the charts to start the year.

For example, looking at the best individual scoring chance producers so far this year, he looks dominant:

All situations individual scoring chances so far this year:

1. Marner: 20 (1 point)
2. Arvidsson: 15 ( 2 points)
2. Nylander: 15 (4 points)
2. Rantanen: 15 (2 points)
5. Kucherov: 14 (4 points)
5. Norris: 14 (1 point)
5. Tavares: 14 (1 point)

Chances dont always equate to points but he's certainly been one of the most dominant offensive players in the league so far.

Getting the best finisher in the game back on his line will certainly help him.
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I am tired of hearing the xGF or xWin% stats with Marner. He is 7th highest cap hit in the league, I measure performance in real wins and points on the board
 
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Zybalto said:
Top 20 cap hits in the NHL (all salaries 9.5 million and greater):

1. McDavid: 12.5
2. Panarin: 11.642
3. Matthews: 11.64
4. Karlsson: 11.5
5. Doughty: 11
5. Tavares: 11
7. Marner: 10.9
8. Price: 10.5
8. Kane: 10.5
8. Toews: 10.5
11. Bobrovsky: 10
11. Kopitar: 10
11. Eichel: 10
14. Seguin: 9.85
15. Malkin: 9.5
15. Stone: 9.5
15. Ovechkin: 9.5
15. Benn: 9.5
15. Vasilevsky: 9.5
15. Kucherov: 9.5

In terms of being worth the money, Marner is probably above average. He's not as overpaid as many of you are portraying here.

Since signing the contract 3 years ago, 6th in points, 2nd for primary assists and coming off of NHL first-team right wing award and top ten Selke season.

There is almost anything better to argue about than his contract.
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Almost everybody on that top 20 list was a UFA at the time of signing (I think only McDavid, Matthews, Marner and Eichel were RFAs).
Dubas paid Marner like he was a UFA and to make matters worse he didn't even get him signed for max term. It's a terrible deal
 
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Wait 20 games at least. Soon he will have 3-4 point games and most points on the team.
 
Shanahan should have waited until Loe Lamarello had Marner signed to a contract before letting him go. It probably would have been a shorter term at less money. A take it or leave it kid, until you prove your worth more. I'm not to sure if the team would still have had control ( RFA) under a shorter term.
We all could have signed Marner to that contract. Here kid 11 Mil. sign here. Where's the negotiating skills in that. But when Dubas has to sign players at league minimum he has the take it or leave it attitude. Basically by Dubas giving out the Marner contract he was forced to learn negotiating skills to be cap compliant. Lou had those skills already.
 
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francis246 said:
Point per game for his career. Over paid probably? But slightly. It’s not even close to being a bad contract. He wasn’t getting anything lower than 9 million at the end of the day. Some of the newer extensions are way worse.
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Overpaid by 2 million is only "slightly" overpaid in your books? Ooooooooooooooooooooooookay then.

Zarley Zalapski said:
Almost everybody on that top 20 list was a UFA at the time of signing (I think only McDavid, Matthews, Marner and Eichel were RFAs).
Dubas paid Marner like he was a UFA and to make matters worse he didn't even get him signed for max term. It's a terrible deal
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This. Can't believe people are still defending Marner's contract.
 
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Shooter14 said:
Shanahan should have waited until Loe Lamarello had Marner signed to a contract before letting him go. It probably would have been a shorter term at less money. A take it or leave it kid, until you prove your worth more. I'm not to sure if the team would still have had control ( RFA) under a shorter term.
We all could have signed Marner to that contract. Here kid 11 Mil. sign here. Where's the negotiating skills in that. But when Dubas has to sign players at league minimum he has the take it or leave it attitude. Basically by Dubas giving out the Marner contract he was forced to learn negotiating skills to be cap compliant. Lou had those skills already.
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3 years or less would have him RFA, 4 or more would be UFA.

UFA is 7 years of service or 27 years old, whichever comes first.
 
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Remember the hate behind the Nylander contract?
He's been dominant for $7 million.

Marner makes nearly $4 million more than he does.
We got played by the hometown kid and his dad. An $11 million dollar winger who can't anchor his own line. If you don't believe this is concerning I have no idea what to tell you.
 
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janesy12 said:
Remember the hate behind the Nylander contract?
He's been dominant for $7 million.

Marner makes nearly $4 million more than he does.
We got played by the hometown kid and his dad. An $11 million dollar winger who can't anchor his own line. If you don't believe this is concerning I have no idea what to tell you.
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I get this, but at the time Marner had 20+ more points than Nylander. That is a big difference, Nylander was not the player he is today. So I don’t get why people keep bringing that comparison up. At the time of extension there wasn’t even a debate about who was a better player. 90% of the board was willing to trade Nylander because they were so done with him. Now he’s the second coming of Jesus.

it just goes to show how flip floppy we are as fans. Marner will perform. these guys will get out of the first round probably and everyone will love him again.
 
ottomaddox said:
Question for you:

How did you feel about the Clarkson contract?
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That was a good contract compared to DiPietro. Hyperbole using the word history usually denotes a narcissism that presumes that the small amount of observation one has witnessed represents the sum of all world events. This type of solipsism is avoidable with the use of google...as long and the person isnt a luddite or the query doesnt revolve around searching ones own name 100% of the time.
 
Notsince67 said:
That was a good contract compared to DiPietro. Hyperbole using the word history usually denotes a narcissism that presumes that the small amount of observation one has witnessed represents the sum of all world events. This type of solipsism is avoidable with the use of google...as long and the person isnt a luddite or the query doesnt revolve around searching ones own name 100% of the time.
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Word.. but in this instance, the salary only became relevant to most fans when the cap was introduced so many have literally observed its entire history.
 
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sparxx87 said:
Word.. but in this instance, the salary only became relevant to most fans when the cap was introduced. Many have literally observed its entire history.
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Saying that Marners contract is one of the worse given out in history is evidence to the contrary. Not even being able to spot worse contracts on the top list posted earlier (ei karlsson, Doughty etc) is baffling if one assumes that a person making such a claim actually keeps abreast of today's NHL.
 
francis246 said:
I get this, but at the time Marner had 20+ more points than Nylander. That is a big difference, Nylander was not the player he is today. So I don’t get why people keep bringing that comparison up. At the time of extension there wasn’t even a debate about who was a better player. 90% of the board was willing to trade Nylander because they were so done with him. Now he’s the second coming of Jesus.

it just goes to show how flip floppy we are as fans. Marner will perform. these guys will get out of the first round probably and everyone will love him again.
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I'll give you that to an extent. Timing was the difference. When signing their deals out of their entry level Nylander was a 0.73 points per game player, while Marner was 0.93ppg.
However, let's look at other RFA deals signed that are similar to Marner.

Point and Rantanen
Marner's contract makes up 13.38% of Toronto's cap.

At the end of their entry level deals, Marner was 0.93PPG, Point was 0.86PPG and Rantanen 0.91PPG.

Point signed a 3 year $6.75 contract the same year Marner signed his deal, and has since signed an 8 year $9.5 contract (11.66% of Tampa's cap)
Rantanen signed a 6 year $9.25 contract (11.35% of Colorado's cap).

While Marner had a higher points per game than both players, does it justify the higher cap hit?

Who would you rather have, because Marner would be my last pick of those 3.
 
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janesy12 said:
I'll give you that to an extent. Timing was the difference. When signing their deals out of their entry level Nylander was a 0.73 points per game player, while Marner was 0.93ppg.
However, let's look at other RFA deals signed that are similar to Marner.

Point and Rantanen
Marner's contract makes up 13.38% of Toronto's cap.

At the end of their entry level deals, Marner was 0.93PPG, Point was 0.86PPG and Rantanen 0.91PPG.

Point signed a 3 year $6.75 contract the same year Marner signed his deal, and has since signed a 8 years $9.5 contract (11.66% of Tampa's cap)
Rantanen signed a 6 year $9.25 contract (11.35% of Colorado's cap).

While Marner had a higher points per game than both players, does it justify the higher cap hit?

Who would you rather have, because Marner would be my last pick of those 3.
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Not even being a homer, I think Marner is better than Rantanen. So 2nd of the two.

agreed, they definitely should have bridged him. But from my understanding is he was not willing to sign a bridge deal. Neither was Matthews. So we can sit here and be pissed about it all we want, he made it clear a bridge wasn’t happening. Maybe management also decided they would end up paying more after a bridge deal. We’ll never know. Also it’s easy from a fans perspective to sit here and say Marner is selfish, give me a break. Are you gonna take 9 million or you going to take 10.9 million? Don’t fool yourself anyone in their right mind is taking more money if it’s on the table. Don’t be pissed at Marner, be pissed at Dubas lol.
 
francis246 said:
Not even being a homer, I think Marner is better than Rantanen. So 2nd of the two.

agreed, they definitely should have bridged him. But from my understanding is he was not willing to sign a bridge deal. Neither was Matthews. So we can sit here and be pissed about it all we want, he made it clear a bridge wasn’t happening. Maybe management also decided they would end up paying more after a bridge deal. We’ll never know. Also it’s easy from a fans perspective to sit here and say Marner is selfish, give me a break. Are you gonna take 9 million or you going to take 10.9 million? Don’t fool yourself anyone in their right mind is taking more money if it’s on the table. Don’t be pissed at Marner, be pissed at Dubas lol.
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Sorry I'd take Rantanen at 1.5m less AAV. This team needs another goal scorer. Although our PP looked better last night and generated many chances, nobody was able to score. Ranta on the PP for Marner would help IMO. It is starting to look more obvious that Marner and Rielly should not be on the same PP.
 
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I certainly hope he starts leeching off Matthews or the team is pooched.

He can score in the 20's but for him to earn his contract Matthew's has to be Ovechkin.
 
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