Mitch Marner Continued II

[Clark4Ever]

No more excuses now that he's riding shotgun with Matthews again.

 

[notbias]

Marner will get a bunch of points during the season, I have no doubt about that. Whether he does or doesn't doesn't matter much to me though, I will judge him by how he does in the playoffs.

Has Marner really carried lesser players? IIRC he started playing with veterans JVR and Bozak, don't know that he was carrying them. But again, does it really matter? Get back to me when Marner carries someone in the playoffs. It's one thing to compile numbers during the regular season but the playoffs are a completely different style play and if he can't do in the playoffs what he does in the regular season, what good is he? I mean of course what good is he to a team that wants playoff success, if all you want to do is to sell tickets in a small market for a crappy team, Marner would no doubt be more than good for that purpose.

He's done it in the playoffs.
He was the driver on the Marleau/Kadri line too where he played at over a 90 point pace.

He has had some bad showings in the playoffs and the first 3 games have not been his greatest, but to just pretend like his past performances don't exist and the underachieving version of him is the only version that exists is insane.

 

[Havoc]

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I don't believe he has elite accuracy in scoring goals. The most he's had in the NHL is 26. His forte is his amazing vision on the ice and elite passing. But I agree with you, he has to focus less on power, and more on hitting the net.

With the elite accuracy, the problem was more that he can put the puck where he wants but since his shot isn't strong the goalie gets to it before it hits the net or it doesn't even get through. So with elite accuracy I meant more his foundational skillset itself. For example Marner has high chance going 4/4 on that accuracy comp in the all star skills , but if you then put a goalie in net the goalie probably blocks it all before it hits the markers.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's done it in the playoffs.
He was the driver on the Marleau/Kadri line too where he played at over a 90 point pace.

He has had some bad showings in the playoffs and the first 3 games have not been his greatest, but to just pretend like his past performances don't exist and the underachieving version of him is the only version that exists is insane.

I don't care about the first 3 games. I care about his last 3 playoff performances which were subpar to say the least and you're right, pretending like those don't exist is insane. Good talk.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Again isn’t it a problem that marner needs a pretty much generational goal scorer to produce? It is certainly a problem if you are paying him $10.93m

To me, this is the problem.

When you are the 7th highest paid player in the league, not having the 3rd highest paid player is simply not an excuse. You need to be the driver of the line, night in and night out. He's overpaid, and substantially so.

Yes, John Tavares is too; but there's a key difference. Tavares is a centre who was brought in as a UFA. Guys in that circumstance are supposed to be overpaid. The concept of having a 24-year old player who's still overpaid in the 3rd year of his 6-year deal is ubsurdly poor management. Sure, sometimes teams will overpay a young player based on their potential to get term; but it's done so with the expectation that within a year or two, that player will make himself underpaid.

I honestly don't know where you go from here, but I think the reality is that one of Tavares or Marner need to go.

Very fair you'd hope to see more production from Marner especially since he's playing with JT. Like others have said they are getting chances which is a good sign. I think Marner is taking this opportunity to shoot any chance he gets which, with no PP goals in almost a year and no goals in 3 playoff series I get his urgency in wanting to score. However, he's just not a scorer. I'd rather him focus on being that outstanding playmaker instead of forcing shots. When Matthews comes back he's such a threat to score that he will demand the puck and Marner will go back into playing his game as a facilitator first.

No excuses though. The big boys have to produce and right now only Nylander is doing it.

 

[Racer88]

Willy has clearly made strides to get better in off seasons. Marner doesn't seem to be putting in the same effort

Agreed 100%

 

[Racer88]

He's been fine to start the season... he and Tavares have 24 shots over the course of the 3 games, they have gotten chances, just not converted.

This thread will age about as well as the "we have no cap space, we have to sign an amateur goalie" thread.

A bunch of really short memories in this thread too, saying Marner can't carry lesser players.

Being unable to convert any of those shots/chances is a major problem whe they are consuming so much ice time and cap.
No amount of excuses or explanations change that fact.
They are paid for results not chances

 

[Antropovsky]

He's been fine to start the season... he and Tavares have 24 shots over the course of the 3 games, they have gotten chances, just not converted.

This thread will age about as well as the "we have no cap space, we have to sign an amateur goalie" thread.

A bunch of really short memories in this thread too, saying Marner can't carry lesser players.

What lesser players has Marner ever carried? The guy has always been on a line with great or incredible linemates. Junior it was Tkatchuk and Dvorak, and in NHL it's been Hyman, Tavares and Matthews for the past few years and before that it was prime JVR and Kadri.

Show me a different hockey player who has been blessed with better linemates over the course of their careers.

 

[ACC1224]

What lesser players has Marner ever carried? The guy has always been on a line with great or incredible linemates. Junior it was Tkatchuk and Dvorak, and in NHL it's been Hyman, Tavares and Matthews for the past few years and before that it was prime JVR and Kadri.

Show me a different hockey player who has been blessed with better linemates over the course of their careers.

Yes good players play with good players.

 

[notbias]

Being unable to convert any of those shots/chances is a major problem whe they are consuming so much ice time and cap.
No amount of excuses or explanations change that fact.
They are paid for results not chances

So, this may be a hard concept to grasp, but someone who is able to generate as many chances as Marner last season in the playoffs is super valuable. I don't think he will be shooting 0% his entire playoff career, and I don't think his linemate will be shooting 2.9%.

I know you're big on results, so I am glad we can both at least agree that Dubas made the smart moves by moving on from Andersen and Hyman.

 

[Antropovsky]

Yes good players play with good players.

There are plenty of top end players who have had one lesser player on a wing. Who was Eichel with? Why was Armstrong on Crosbys wing? At one time Tavares best teammate was PA Parenteau and Matt Moulson. There are plenty of examples...

 

[notbias]

What lesser players has Marner ever carried? The guy has always been on a line with great or incredible linemates. Junior it was Tkatchuk and Dvorak, and in NHL it's been Hyman, Tavares and Matthews for the past few years and before that it was prime JVR and Kadri.

Show me a different hockey player who has been blessed with better linemates over the course of their careers.

You named him... Hyman. Last three seasons his most common linemates were Marner/Matthews/Tavares.

Marner played with Bozak/Kadri/Marleau/JVR, he carried those lines.

Matthews and Tavares are the only players out of anyone you listed that are on Marner's level or better.

 

[ACC1224]

There are plenty of top end players who have had one lesser player on a wing. Who was Eichel with? Why was Armstrong on Crosbys wing? At one time Tavares best teammate was PA Parenteau and Matt Moulson. There are plenty of examples...

Like Hyman?

 

[Antropovsky]

You named him... Hyman. Last three seasons his most common linemates were Marner/Matthews/Tavares.

Marner played with Bozak/Kadri/Marleau/JVR, he carried those lines.

Matthews and Tavares are the only players out of anyone you listed that are on Marner's level or better.

JVR 2nd overall pick and a player whose had damn good numbers throughout his career no matter where he's played? Kadri a 7th overall pick who put up 18 points in 15 postseason games and put up about the same point totals the year before without Marner (or after one of the two).

 

[Racer88]

So, this may be a hard concept to grasp, but someone who is able to generate as many chances as Marner last season in the playoffs is super valuable. I don't think he will be shooting 0% his entire playoff career, and I don't think his linemate will be shooting 2.9%.

I know you're big on results, so I am glad we can both at least agree that Dubas made the smart moves by moving on from Andersen and Hyman.

Yup we at least agree on Andersen and Hyman. It was time to move on from them.
Marner has been crappy at scoring in the last 3 playoffs and the last year on the PP. I am curious as to how long you think it will take him to be able to produce in those 2 areas

 

[Wendelstache]

\

This is why Matthews is the MVP caliber player on our team. He makes the difference for all.

Marner is paid like the MVP candidates so he needs to play like one but realistically and frustrating is we all know that he's never going to live up to that contract.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Lol @ thinking that any of Marner's linemates other than Matthews/Tavares have been "incredible". Matthews is the only player better than him that he's ever played with, and that's only been a year and a half. The team is not going to put Marner with a bunch of scrubs. It's a waste of his skills.

 

[ACC1224]

Why would people not want him to play with good players? makes no sense.

 

[Notsince67]

What lesser players has Marner ever carried? The guy has always been on a line with great or incredible linemates. Junior it was Tkatchuk and Dvorak, and in NHL it's been Hyman, Tavares and Matthews for the past few years and before that it was prime JVR and Kadri.

Show me a different hockey player who has been blessed with better linemates over the course of their careers.

Yup. They probably would have played him with good players last year in the all star game. Just dont know why they would do that.

 

[hotpaws]

the John Tavares effect

everyone gets tossed under the bus to deflect attention away from little Yanni pajama's

 

[kevsh]

What lesser players has Marner ever carried?

Kadri and Marleau say hi.

Leafs’ Nazem Kadri enjoying offensive resurgence with Mitch Marner on his wing

 

[BlueForever75]

Marner is paid like the MVP candidates so he needs to play like one but realistically and frustrating is we all know that he's never going to live up to that contract.

Can Marner carry the Leafs if Matthews is not around. I still think he can. The Leafs have played some of their best hockey when Matthews has been hurt.

What I am saying is that its easy for the opposition to focus on one line than it is 2. Look at the Crosby and Malkin, or Gretzky and Messier, or Mackinnon and Landeskogg. If one of those players got hurt it would cause opposition to focus on shutting one line down and not the other.

This doesnt make Marner not good or MVP caliber. He will still be in the top 10 in scoring when all is said and done.

 

[mikeyz]

Can Marner carry the Leafs if Matthews is not around. I still think he can. The Leafs have played some of their best hockey when Matthews has been hurt.

What I am saying is that its easy for the opposition to focus on one line than it is 2. Look at the Crosby and Malkin, or Gretzky and Messier, or Mackinnon and Landeskogg. If one of those players got hurt it would cause opposition to focus on shutting one line down and not the other.

This doesnt make Marner not good or MVP caliber. He will still be in the top 10 in scoring when all is said and done.

Even being in the top 10 in scoring isn’t good enough when you consider he’s in the top 5 in terms of salary.

 

[Notsince67]

Even being in the top 10 in scoring isn’t good enough when you consider he’s in the top 5 in terms of salary.

By cap hit he is 7th. Is that ok now?

 

[notdoneyet]

If Tavares could score on some of the tap. in goals that marner has gifted him marner would have 4 or 5 points

Tavares has looked slow so far

marner is better playing with speedy players

tavsres is getting slower and ritchie is really slow