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Mitch Marner Continued II

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TMLife17 said:
That’s fair. And maybe the only gun I can see an argument for over Tavares.
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It's not even that I don't like Marner. He's a gamebreaker in the right circumstances. It's just that Matthews is going nowhere, Nylander is on a better contract and the optics of asking JT to waive his NMC would be just awful. He just seems like the right choice to move should the team bow out early in the playoffs again.
 
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PromisedLand said:
Leafs fold like a cheap tent against fast forechecking teams or the teams that clog neutral zone and force dump-ins

Why? because this team has no balls to play body against fast forechecking teams or going in to get the dump-ins, recover puck and engage in board battles. Except Hyman, Matthews, Spezza and to an extent sometimes Willy I don't see that from anyone else. (Simmonds is too slow to get to the puck first)
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We need more from the top players. Physicality isn't the only problem, but its part of the collective issue.

Add scoring and goalie to the collectivity.
 
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Maplebeasts said:
It's not even that I don't like Marner. He's a gamebreaker in the right circumstances. It's just that Matthews is going nowhere, Nylander is on a better contract and the optics of asking JT to waive his NMC would be just awful. He just seems like the right choice to move should the team bow out early in the playoffs again.
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I’m wondering the value of optics vs the value of having an aging Tavares for 4 years vs a 100pt player in his prime years (probably looking at 10+ years left)
 
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TMLife17 said:
I’m wondering the value of optics vs the value of having an aging Tavares for 4 years vs a 100pt player in his prime years (probably looking at 10+ years left)
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It's a tough call. I do think though that you would have a hard time attracting any free agents that could make an impact if you do move Tavares.
 
Maplebeasts said:
It's a tough call. I do think though that you would have a hard time attracting any free agents that could make an impact if you do move Tavares.
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I don’t think we’d be going for any Stamkos/Tavares type signings in that situation as we’d have our core. And no one wants to come here anyways it’s Toronto. I don’t think it would hinder our ability to sign role players at all
 
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Confucius said:
What draft picks can you get for someone that sucks? Not agreeing with you by any means but what is a player that sucks worth in picks?
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bingo!! people say Marner sucks, so if he sucks wouldn't his value be garbage? They are just Marner haters at the end of the day
 
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It's like some folks don't realize this is the internet, the biggest repository of facts that has ever existed...my mind has been blown
 
francis246 said:
bingo!! people say Marner sucks, so if he sucks wouldn't his value be garbage? They are just Marner haters at the end of the day
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I think this is being misconstrued. "Sucks" is being looked at too black and white.

Marner doesn't suck. He's great in the regular season, we know this already. The main problem right now is he is not performing at playoff level. Hasn't scored a goal, and he is physically lacking. Additionally, the last playoffs proved that he is also mentally weak, he was terrified and basically crying in the box.

I love the the Leafs and I support them as much as I can, but we really need to separate ourselves from forced positivity and realism here.

We need Marner to take the next step, we all know that Marner can be a game changer. If this kid could take it up to a gritty playoff level, he would be downright dangerous.

We're all seeing it as it is, and unfortunately, we have a small window or opportunity with some of the best skilled players we've likely ever seen.

This situation all around flat out sucks. I want nothing more than Marner to succeed but time and time again, we're seeing a soft kid that wanted all the money but too afraid of the smoke.

It's just the current reality of the situation.
 
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I'm telling you right now Marner better start doing however many of the 27 fuzzy ideas expressed here, or all of them together that he should be doing, and while he's at it get in the time machine and tell Dubious that no ifs ands or buts, he's signing for 8 years for no more than 5m per season, but only because the Union won't let him sign for less.
 
therealkoho said:
Not to mention what NHL GM wants a contract that's paying almost 11m to a player who sucks...the universe is full of such mysterys.
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Well you mean Cap hit, as his salary actual dollars right now is very good for a first line all star.

There are teams with cap space but lack the financial power the Leafs have. Leafs have made marner affordable for every non cap constrained team.
 
Tavares and Marner aint working right now, they dont have to. Soon batman is back and Marner can leave Alfred behind.
 
Notsince67 said:
Why are you making shit up?
This isnt a poker game and the stats are easy to look up.
Marner played in the 93rd percentile of QoC that year compared to Matthews at 62
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Huh? I quoted your comment about his PPG with Kadri to point out this was against second and third lines. If it’s easy to look up, why didn’t you?

Whether it’s with Kadri, Bozak or Tavares, Marner sees easier matchups away from Matthews.

Twisting what I’ve said and accusing me of making things up when you missed the point is pretty funny, though.
 
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therealkoho said:
Jfc salaries DO NOT PLAY HOCKEY players play hockey

JT and Mitch were line #1 two years ago, you know when JT had his best statistical season ever.
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Salaries are relevant in a cap world. Not sure why you’d suggest otherwise?

That’s awesome! Really great for those $11M players to have great individual regular seasons. It’s too bad they couldn’t find any team success and these stats didn’t carry over to the playoffs.
 
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ZEBROA said:
Tavares and Marner aint working right now, they dont have to. Soon batman is back and Marner can leave Alfred behind.
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Both are snakebit right now. All you had to do was watch both fail to score into the empty net last night. Matty's return should help both.
 
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sparxx87 said:
Huh? I quoted your comment about his PPG with Kadri to point out this was against second and third lines. If it’s easy to look up, why didn’t you?

Whether it’s with Kadri, Bozak or Tavares, Marner sees easier matchups away from Matthews.

Twisting what I’ve said and accusing me of making things up when you missed the point is pretty funny, though.
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????
I gave you the qoc numbers proving Marner had much harder matchups than Matthew's while playing with Tavares. What are you on about? You are wrong and you clearly a spouting a made up opinion.
 
Notsince67 said:
????
I gave you the qoc numbers proving Marner had much harder matchups than Matthew's while playing with Tavares. What are you on about? You are wrong and you clearly a spouting a made up opinion.
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You didn’t prove anything. You’re delusional about Marner, and your snake oil websites aren’t really trustworthy. I don’t ever recall opponents loading up on Marner and letting Matthews face lesser competition… if it did happen, it was for a short time and more because of Tavares than Marner. The majority of his production you spoke of came with Kadri or Bozak as his centre against lesser competition.

No matter which way you want to spin it, Marner doesn’t rise to the occasion. He most often shrinks.
 
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Marner has to relax when he shoots. Right now he's trying to prove to the world that he's improved his shot. He is shooting as hard as he can to prove he doesn't have a muffin. The problem with this approach is that he is sacrificing accuracy. Slow down, aim for five-hole or top corners if you'd like, but take something off the shot. Unless you have a natural ability to put pace on that puck, you're shooting aimlessly if you put all you can into the shot. Any of us who have played the game know that some guys just naturally have a heavy shot, but other guys can make up for a lack of it with intelligent shooting.
 
CabanaBoy5 said:
Marner has to relax when he shoots. Right now he's trying to prove to the world that he's improved his shot. He is shooting as hard as he can to prove he doesn't have a muffin. The problem with this approach is that he is sacrificing accuracy. Slow down, aim for five-hole or top corners if you'd like, but take something off the shot. Unless you have a natural ability to put pace on that puck, you're shooting aimlessly if you put all you can into the shot. Any of us who have played the game know that some guys just naturally have a heavy shot, but other guys can make up for a lack of it with intelligent shooting.
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Marner does have elite accuracy though. If his accuracy is down because he's trying to focus on power, it's only a matter of time before he starts hitting the net with the new power.

We gave Nylander the same benefit of the doubt when he shot wide full power for a good stretch, then the guy ends up scoring 30 goals (and definitely would have pushed 40 without covid, he was on a tear). So maybe we should give Marner more than 2 games to get his shot ready (generally speaking, not accusing you).
 
Jaska said:
Marner will never earn his salary.
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This was 100% obvious WELL BEFORE he signed.

If you take cap space seriously you bridge Marner.

Paying for assists is risky and opportunities dry up in the playoffs.

Expect the same year after year. It wont change.

Havoc said:
So maybe we should give Marner more than 2 games to get his shot ready.
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He has known for half a decade he was NHL bound.
His shot wont improve to any great deal. It's not in the cards. He's a great NHL playmaker and should make 1.5 AAV less than Rantanen.
 
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