Mitch Marner Continued II

[Machinae]

Marners is a 6 million dollar undersized passing winger with some defensive game that's moonlighting as a star because of where he was born and the two elite centers he got strapped to. He was a fun player to have when he made less than he was worth, but now his salary is a massive detriment to the team.

Honestly think if this kid was from Europe he would have never been able to demand the money he did.

 

[Havoc]

He has known for half a decade he was NHL bound.
His shot wont improve to any great deal. It's not in the cards. He's a great NHL playmaker and should make 1.5 AAV less than Rantanen.

I am pretty annoyed Marner took this long to work on his shot. I've made posts in the past that Marner is taking the skills he was born with for granted instead of remaining humble and perfecting his craft. Especially since he finished rock bottom in grip strength at the combine.

However need to remain objective. Marner is 24 years old so does have room to grow and did finally work on it, or so he says. He's had 26 in 82 and was pacing 29 last season. So when he does find a balance between accuracy and power, it's not unreasonable to say Marner will have a couple 30 goal seasons moving forward. He doesn't need to add that many snipes to his highlight reel to be considered a significant goal scorer. He's no longer on the half wall either, so our only concern is he hits the net from his new bumper position. Odds are high we will see some Marner snipes from that spot because like I said previously he is elite when it comes to accuracy he's just going through a transition period right now where he needs to balance accuracy and power.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Raise your hand if you thought Willie would end up being the one to outplay his contract after signing ?

He's had a hot start... but I wouldn't say he outplayed his contract last year. Paced for 25 goals/65 points.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Marner does have elite accuracy though. If his accuracy is down because he's trying to focus on power, it's only a matter of time before he starts hitting the net with the new power.

We gave Nylander the same benefit of the doubt when he shot wide full power for a good stretch, then the guy ends up scoring 30 goals (and definitely would have pushed 40 without covid, he was on a tear). So maybe we should give Marner more than 2 games to get his shot ready (generally speaking, not accusing you).

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I don't believe he has elite accuracy in scoring goals. The most he's had in the NHL is 26. His forte is his amazing vision on the ice and elite passing. But I agree with you, he has to focus less on power, and more on hitting the net.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

You guys are whack. Perfecting his craft means becoming the next MSL, not getting 30 goals. He has the goal scorers he needs to make his playmaking work at this level period.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

You guys are whack. Perfecting his craft means becoming the next MSL, not getting 30 goals. He has the goal scorers he needs to make his playmaking work at this level period.

I guess you didn't watch the playoffs when Marner had a whack of chances to shoot the puck and score even ONE goal if he only had a decent shot. He also has to score when his linemates for whatever reason can't, as has happened in the last two playoffs. He should be working on that part of his game.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I guess you didn't watch the playoffs when Marner had a whack of chances to shoot the puck and score even ONE goal if he only had a decent shot. He also has to score when his linemates for whatever reason can't, as has happened in the last two playoffs. He should be working on that part of his game.

I’ll stand by my belief that he can be a successful player by going 1:10 goals to assists. It’s been done before multiple times, en route to a cup nonetheless.

 

[Racer88]

He's had a hot start... but I wouldn't say he outplayed his contract last year. Paced for 25 goals/65 points.

More importantly he was able to perform in the playoffs so that adds a lot to his value

 

[Niagara Bill]

Marner does not give effort. He thinks his skill keeps him elite.
Bad shot, plays on the edge, never gets behind the D any more, wants to carry the puck only.
We could have equal success ( which is none) with many players in that spot rather than being so desperate we cannot have a back up goalie. Could have kept Johnson, Kapanen, use Ho Sang, Robertson, and etc etc.
Marner is NOT in the top 30 forwards in NHL. He is a mistake.

 

[Notsince67]

You didn’t prove anything. You’re delusional about Marner, and your snake oil websites aren’t really trustworthy. I don’t ever recall opponents loading up on Marner and letting Matthews face lesser competition… if it did happen, it was for a short time and more because of Tavares than Marner. The majority of his production you spoke of came with Kadri or Bozak as his centre against lesser competition.

No matter which way you want to spin it, Marner doesn’t rise to the occasion. He most often shrinks.

Let's examine what you are dancing around. You said Marner was always sheltered when playing without Matthews. I pointed out with very specific stats pointing out percentiles of %toi against elite competition (to exactly spell it out for you). Marner with Tavares had a much higher difficulty in deployment and you submit that your word alone is enough evidence to refute something that is well understood to be true for anyone who actually has a clue. No idea what fantasy world you live in but just because you say so, doesnt make it true. You need to walk away, stop doubling down on this bs and begin talking about something you know about. Stop spreading uneducated musings based on what you think.
This is the last you will hear from me on this because life is too short to deal with this nonsense.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Last time John Tavares carried anything he was about 19 years old.

in before but he has two world juniors and a wc and a Olympic gold. Please he did jack nothing on all those teams except his second crack at World Juniors. Has not done jack since on any ice surface

Wrong. He carried his new born just last year.

 

[djdev]

marner looked good last night tbh, when he gets matthews back he will get alot more space to operate. im more down on marner than in the past but hes still a star, i just think hes feeling the pressure now of the fans due to last years playoffs. this year is really going to tell us what kind of fight he has in him.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Marner will be fine. Once Matthews comes back he'll be back to being a PPG+. The only disappointing thing is I didn't want Keefe to be married to Matthews+Mitch and Nylander+Tavares. With JT and Marner not being able to produce through 3 games I'm scared that Keefe will never try breaking up those duos in the future.

 

[Jojalu]

keep riding that Marner train. Simple fact is Marner is one-dimensional. He cant score goals to save his life. Nothing has changed from the day he was drafted. Marner is all empty calorie pts, like the other night....gives to puck to Reilly and skates off. Reilly makes a nice pass and Nylander snipes. Marner got an assist for doing nothing.

While that is the case forvthat particular goal, Marner is always at the top of the list for primary assists.

Yes I agree he has to be better but let's not start makimg up reasons to run him out of town.

 

[ECYCLE]

Marner does not give effort. He thinks his skill keeps him elite.
Bad shot, plays on the edge, never gets behind the D any more, wants to carry the puck only.
We could have equal success ( which is none) with many players in that spot rather than being so desperate we cannot have a back up goalie. Could have kept Johnson, Kapanen, use Ho Sang, Robertson, and etc etc.
Marner is NOT in the top 30 forwards in NHL. He is a mistake.

I do think Marner puts forward much effort but I agree with you that he mistakenly believes he is elite with his skill. I started to see narcissistic undertones with him, esp. after his infamous post playoff interviews.

The only thing elite about him is his vision and passing. Everything else is average or below, specifically shooting (high accuracy with below average power is worthless at professional level). Hockey IQ is high but he doesn't play well under pressure so that's useless. He should not be considered anywhere near top 30 forwards.

Game 3 was not as bad; he wasn't completely invisible... But he's never going to live up to that contract. Just a reminder that the opponents have been Montreal and Ottawa.

 

[IPS]

I don’t ever recall opponents loading up on Marner and letting Matthews face lesser competition…

2019 series vs Boston. They faced Bergeron's line against Tavares/Marner's line.

I'm actually pretty sure that line faced top competition during the whole regular season. Nylander had his holdout, Matthews dealt with a few injuries and that line was our primary source of offense. Both JT and Marner had career years.

 

[Walshy7]

Marner will be fine. Once Matthews comes back he'll be back to being a PPG+. The only disappointing thing is I didn't want Keefe to be married to Matthews+Mitch and Nylander+Tavares. With JT and Marner not being able to produce through 3 games I'm scared that Keefe will never try breaking up those duos in the future.

Again isn’t it a problem that marner needs a pretty much generational goal scorer to produce? It is certainly a problem if you are paying him $10.93m

 

[ACC1224]

Man some of the comments in here.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

Raise your hand if you thought Willie would end up being the one to outplay his contract after signing ?

Only Nylander had any chance at outplaying because the other 2 make money at their ceiling.

 

[seanlinden]

Marner will be fine. Once Matthews comes back he'll be back to being a PPG+. The only disappointing thing is I didn't want Keefe to be married to Matthews+Mitch and Nylander+Tavares. With JT and Marner not being able to produce through 3 games I'm scared that Keefe will never try breaking up those duos in the future.

To me, this is the problem.

When you are the 7th highest paid player in the league, not having the 3rd highest paid player is simply not an excuse. You need to be the driver of the line, night in and night out. He's overpaid, and substantially so.

Yes, John Tavares is too; but there's a key difference. Tavares is a centre who was brought in as a UFA. Guys in that circumstance are supposed to be overpaid. The concept of having a 24-year old player who's still overpaid in the 3rd year of his 6-year deal is ubsurdly poor management. Sure, sometimes teams will overpay a young player based on their potential to get term; but it's done so with the expectation that within a year or two, that player will make himself underpaid.

I honestly don't know where you go from here, but I think the reality is that one of Tavares or Marner need to go.

 

[yubbers]

More importantly he was able to perform in the playoffs so that adds a lot to his value

Willy has clearly made strides to get better in off seasons. Marner doesn't seem to be putting in the same effort

 

[BlueForever75]

People need to chill on this guy. Its not like he and Tavares havent had their chances to start the season which is only 3 games old. If I am Keefe I keep them together and put Matthews with Nylander. Its a matter of time before both lines get clicking and the Leafs will be scoring 5 plus goals a game again.

Remember its not hard for opposition to stack their defense against one line as its been through 3 games. Adding Matthews adds an element opposition will find hard to control. Not only will Tavares and Marner get going but line 3 and 4 will as well. Its a domino effect.

This is why Matthews is the MVP caliber player on our team. He makes the difference for all.

 

[notbias]

He's been fine to start the season... he and Tavares have 24 shots over the course of the 3 games, they have gotten chances, just not converted.

This thread will age about as well as the "we have no cap space, we have to sign an amateur goalie" thread.

A bunch of really short memories in this thread too, saying Marner can't carry lesser players.

 

[Mess]

Only Nylander had any chance at outplaying because the other 2 make money at their ceiling.

Marner's best opportunity to validate his contract would be hoisting a Conn Smythe trophy and help leading the Leafs to a Stanley Cup. Then it will all be worth it and nobody will care how much he makes if the Leafs are successful and he is a key component of that success.

My all-time favourite Leaf is Davey Keon and much like Marner, he was small and skilled and non physical, but he was also the 1967 Conn Smythe trophy winner on Leafs last Stanley Cup in 1967. This is whom Marner should try and emulate, and use as his role model to try and duplicate come playoff time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

He's been fine to start the season... he and Tavares have 24 shots over the course of the 3 games, they have gotten chances, just not converted.

This thread will age about as well as the "we have no cap space, we have to sign an amateur goalie" thread.

A bunch of really short memories in this thread too, saying Marner can't carry lesser players.

Marner will get a bunch of points during the season, I have no doubt about that. Whether he does or doesn't doesn't matter much to me though, I will judge him by how he does in the playoffs.

Has Marner really carried lesser players? IIRC he started playing with veterans JVR and Bozak, don't know that he was carrying them. But again, does it really matter? Get back to me when Marner carries someone in the playoffs. It's one thing to compile numbers during the regular season but the playoffs are a completely different style play and if he can't do in the playoffs what he does in the regular season, what good is he? I mean of course what good is he to a team that wants playoff success, if all you want to do is to sell tickets in a small market for a crappy team, Marner would no doubt be more than good for that purpose.