Miscellaneous NHL Discussion XLIX: Covid Cup Edition

[Ghosts Beer]

I think we probably match up with Boston better.

I disagree with that.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Colorado is in trouble. And I figured they were on a collision course with Vegas.

In retrospect I’m thrilled the Flyers faced Montreal. You’ve got to have those battles. The Islanders are a similar team. This won’t be like jumping into a cold swimming pool. Colorado had some shock after abusing Arizona. Now the injuries make it even harder against a great defensive team.

 

[FlyerFaithful17]

First they have to beat Tampa though and Halak is like Mason so hot and cold.

It’s obvious they’d need to be Tampa for us to play them, as it is obvious that we’d need to beat the Islanders...

I just think Boston is a bit slower and more top heavy than Tampa.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It’s obvious they’d need to be Tampa for us to play them, as it is obvious that we’d need to beat the Islanders...

I just think Boston is a bit slower and more top heavy than Tampa.

TB is well-coached, but they have a tendency to drift from their habits.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

It’s obvious they’d need to be Tampa for us to play them, as it is obvious that we’d need to beat the Islanders...

I just think Boston is a bit slower and more top heavy than Tampa.

Bergeron Krejci Coyle
Point Johnson Cirelli
It's like playoff bodies against smurfs. Tampa has no chance.

 

[FlyerFaithful17]

TB is well-coached, but they have a tendency to drift from their habits.

I think both are beatable.

 

[TB87]

Can someone provide some insight as to why Shea Theodore lasted until the 26th pick in the 1st RD in 2013? I didn't pay much attention to him during his draft year (had my eye on Morrissey & Pulock).

I ask this because he is a PHENOMENAL defenseman. He is so much fun to watch ply his trade. The Ducks exposing him in the Expansion Draft seemed dumb at the time & is lookes worse than dumb now.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Can someone provide some insight as to why Shea Theodore lasted until the 26th pick in the 1st RD in 2013? I didn't pay much attention to him during his draft year (had my eye on Morrissey & Pulock).

I ask this because he is a PHENOMENAL defenseman. He is so much fun to watch ply his trade. The Ducks exposing him in the Expansion Draft seemed dumb at the time & is lookes worse than dumb now.

I wanted him at 11. Well, to be fair, I wanted him, Pulock, Morrissey, or, yes, Domi.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Can someone provide some insight as to why Shea Theodore lasted until the 26th pick in the 1st RD in 2013? I didn't pay much attention to him during his draft year (had my eye on Morrissey & Pulock).

I ask this because he is a PHENOMENAL defenseman. He is so much fun to watch ply his trade. The Ducks exposing him in the Expansion Draft seemed dumb at the time & is lookes worse than dumb now.

He was viewed as very flawed offensive dman who possessed all the tools to succeed and was viewed as boom or bust type in a time when shifty skilled players weren't as highly touted. Sorta like DeAngelo or Del Zotto type or whatever is the name of that kid with Sharks. Point wasn't even picked in first two rounds. IDK how good Theodore is defensively though as I don't pay much attention to west, but stick a guy like letang on a good team and even he gets praised for being a rock on defense. Anaheim sorta went the safe death route at the time with Carlyle, Kesler, Beauchemin on his last legs and they already had their offensive liability in Fowler so giving up on Theodore is no surprise and it didn't take long for Montour be the next one out since they have good ole Ontario boy Gudbranson.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Can someone provide some insight as to why Shea Theodore lasted until the 26th pick in the 1st RD in 2013? I didn't pay much attention to him during his draft year (had my eye on Morrissey & Pulock).

I ask this because he is a PHENOMENAL defenseman. He is so much fun to watch ply his trade. The Ducks exposing him in the Expansion Draft seemed dumb at the time & is lookes worse than dumb now.

Tell me if you've heard this one before. While he was an elite skater and had top notch skills, his play away from the puck was poor. He was too much of a gambler. He didn't play with physicality. He needed to gain strength.

Here's an all-timer quote for you from the dreaded anonymous scout:

At the NHL level, he’s probably going to factor into being a Johnny Boychuk kind of player. He’s going to be good, but he also has to learn the nuances of the game. He has to learn sometimes that less is best and he has to play up to his size. He’s got enough offensive ability that he’s an enticing player.

 

[Starat327]

Tell me if you've heard this one before. While he was an elite skater and had top notch skills, his play away from the puck was poor. He was too much of a gambler. He didn't play with physicality. He needed to gain strength.

Here's an all-timer quote for you from the dreaded anonymous scout:

"lacks heavy"

 

[TB87]

Tell me if you've heard this one before. While he was an elite skater and had top notch skills, his play away from the puck was poor. He was too much of a gambler. He didn't play with physicality. He needed to gain strength.

Here's an all-timer quote for you from the dreaded anonymous scout:

2013 1st Round Drafted Draft Year CHL Defenseman

Player	HockeyProspecting NHLe
Seth Jones	22
Ryan Pulock	18
Shea Theodore	17
Josh Morrissey	16
Darnell Nurse	14
Mirco Mueller	12
Nikita Zadorov	9
Samuel Morin	7

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So basically: "This guy is great with the puck and he's not perfect without it right now so....let's stay away from this doof. Post-draft development isn't real."


Theodore was the youngest player among this group too. I can get behind "this guy is very bad at defense" if his name is Ryan Merkley. Defenseman being poor defensively in their draft year isn't too much of a concern. If said player (or players) are smart, they can learn how to defense and implement what they've learned over time. If the player isn't smart, an entirely different conversation needs to be had.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I recall 26th overall being considered a slight reach as well on draft day.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

2013 1st Round Drafted Draft Year CHL Defenseman

Player	HockeyProspecting NHLe
Seth Jones	22
Ryan Pulock	18
Shea Theodore	17
Josh Morrissey	16
Darnell Nurse	14
Mirco Mueller	12
Nikita Zadorov	9
Samuel Morin	7

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So basically: "This guy is great with the puck and he's not perfect without it right now so....let's stay away from this doof. Post-draft development isn't real."


Theodore was the youngest player among this group too. I can get behind "this guy is very bad at defense" if his name is Ryan Merkley. Defenseman being poor defensively in their draft year isn't too much of a concern. If said player (or players) are smart, they can learn how to defense and implement what they've learned over time. If the player isn't smart, an entirely different conversation needs to be had.

You delete that table right now.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Yep, it probably was seen as a reach. McKeen's had him 49th. Here's McKenzie's top 30:

1. Nathan MacKinnon
2. Seth Jones
3. Jonathan Drouin
4. Aleksander Barkov
5. Elias Lindholm
6. Valeri Nichuskin
7. Sean Monahan
8. Rasmus Ristolainen
9. Darnell Nurse
10. Max Domi
11. Nikita Zadorov
12. Alexander Wennberg
13. Bo Horvat
14. Hunter Shinkaruk
15. Anthony Mantha
16. Mirco Mueller
17. Samuel Morin
18. Curtis Lazar
19. Zachary Fucale
20. Adam Erne
21. Kerby Rychel
22. Frederik Gauthier
23. Ryan Pulock
24. Andre Burakowsky
25. Valentin Zykov
26. Ryan Hartman
27. Robert Hagg
28. Joshua Morrissey
29. Jacob De La Rose
30. Morgan Klimchuk

Theodore was 44th. The other Defensemen in front of him were Bigras, Bowey, and McCoshen.

 

[Striiker]

As we all know, speed/skill and defensive reliability are inversely proportional.

This is true 100% of the time in all hockey players.

 

[TB87]

You delete that table right now.

 

[Brian39]

22wszzzzzzzzzzzzzwzzszzzezderdzzaasssszzw3ezweewswwzz

Edit: ah, the dangers of using HF boards on my phone

 

[DancingPanther]

22wszzzzzzzzzzzzzwzzszzzezderdzzaasssszzw3ezweewswwzz

I've been trying to tell you this all day but you haven't been listening

 

[JojoTheWhale]

@TB87 Who is this McKenzie blurb about? 2013 draft.

XXXX is a player who shows at times all of the attributes of top defencemen. Has very good skating ability with quickness, agility and power and he's able to use it to his advantage. Good puck play and has a good shot. Good awareness and is a player who can play in all areas of the game. Is capable of being dominant at times and as he develops his game, could find himself in a top pairing and playing in multiple important situations during the game.

Rankings:
Craig Button: No. 48 | NHL CS: No. 8 IS | ISS: No. 31 | The Hockey News: No. 12 | McKeen's: No. 19

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[TB87]

@TB87 Who is this McKenzie blurb about? 2013 draft.

XXXX is a player who shows at times all of the attributes of top defencemen. Has very good skating ability with quickness, agility and power and he's able to use it to his advantage. Good puck play and has a good shot. Good awareness and is a player who can play in all areas of the game. Is capable of being dominant at times and as he develops his game, could find himself in a top pairing and playing in multiple important situations during the game.

Rankings:
Craig Button: No. 48 | NHL CS: No. 8 IS | ISS: No. 31 | The Hockey News: No. 12 | McKeen's: No. 19

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Bobbert Hogg?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Bobbert Hogg?

Yep. No one drafts well. No one. We're all throwing darts. Some of us are completely incompetent and some of us are only mostly so.

 

[Magua]

I’d like to say the most crucial skill of a scout is that when you’re wrong, you’re not wrong for the wrong reasons.

 

[TB87]

Yep. No one drafts well. No one. We're all throwing darts. Some of us are completely incompetent and some of us are only mostly so.

Yeah, true. Post-draft development is ridiculously important.

Hogg struggled with routine passes in his draft year. Tough for me to reconcile “good puck play” with that.

 

[Magua]

Has very good skating ability with quickness, agility and power and he's able to use it to his advantage.

Quickness! Agility! Power!

@FLYguy3911 — can you post that gif of Hagg skating? I think it was yours anyway.