Curufinwe
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Miscellaneous NHL Discussion XCVIII: Orange is the new Orange (Poll in OP)
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Curufinwe
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As an example of an dman who was actually bad on defense, Yandle was -27 at 5on5 with the Flyers.
24 GF - 51 GA in 876 5on5 minutes.
GapToothedWonder
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renberg
Registered User
Dubas is close to putting the Penguins in the same trick sack that he did with the Leafs. Blocked off by a cap ceiling. I get it that cap space doesn't score goals but not having it limits a club's ability to get the players that do. When his aging roster starts to break down as we go through the season, the Penguins are screwed since their system is short of talent to fill in the holes and they won''t have the space to acquire suitable replacements.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
You guys keep making the mistake of comparing this to any other situation. The instruction has been get what you can out of the remaining core & then we’ll rebuild when that’s over. This is a core that won this organization three cups & a boatload of other games. It’s all gravy at this point when the core plays out its remaining years. It’s what the players want & it’s what the fan base wants.
This. JFresh made a similar point (he's a Pens fan). It makes total sense for a spoiled-ass fanbase like theirs.
TheKingPin
Registered User
What are you even talking about? He just careered it and put up over 100 pts. You just added your best dman. That’s always a good move. The pens are still elite at center and got an elite dman at good value.
I know right? This is just crazy.
This feels like the oddest trade to try to take a Chuck Fletcher victory lap on.
"Good news everyone! You know how our former GM spent tons of picks getting lesser defensemen like Risotlainen and DeAngelo while paying to dump a better defenseman in Gostisbehere during that time where we continually iced a slop team? Well, a divisional rival spent less on a hundred point defenseman whose contract roughly matches the attempted victory lap of their aging stars who brought them three Cups.
Why the silence? The good news is that that better defenseman has a BIGGER cap hit! I mean, yeah, they dumped two cap dumps of roughly the equivalent salary as part of that package but this deal goes for FOUR years!"
Seems funny that a GM that acquired crap players at excessive prices while supposedly being saddled with a "mandate to win now" gets more leeway than a GM who acquires a good player at a reasonable price while having a legitimate reason for a "mandate to try to compete now" - a mandate that is supported by ownership, the players and the fans. That fanbase knows a rebuild is coming when this core hangs up their skates - why not at least give them a kick at the can rather than bringing in the Granlunds and Petrys of the world?
"Good news everyone! You know how our former GM spent tons of picks getting lesser defensemen like Risotlainen and DeAngelo while paying to dump a better defenseman in Gostisbehere during that time where we continually iced a slop team? Well, a divisional rival spent less on a hundred point defenseman whose contract roughly matches the attempted victory lap of their aging stars who brought them three Cups.
Why the silence? The good news is that that better defenseman has a BIGGER cap hit! I mean, yeah, they dumped two cap dumps of roughly the equivalent salary as part of that package but this deal goes for FOUR years!"
Seems funny that a GM that acquired crap players at excessive prices while supposedly being saddled with a "mandate to win now" gets more leeway than a GM who acquires a good player at a reasonable price while having a legitimate reason for a "mandate to try to compete now" - a mandate that is supported by ownership, the players and the fans. That fanbase knows a rebuild is coming when this core hangs up their skates - why not at least give them a kick at the can rather than bringing in the Granlunds and Petrys of the world?
deadhead
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What are the odds Karlsson ever has a season like last season again at age 33 with a well deserved reputation as injury prone?
Dubas is in a no win situation, he could tank, but he can't move out most of the veterans due to their salaries, Crosby (2 more years $8.7M), Malkin ((3yr $6.1m), Rust (5yr, $5.1m), R Smith (2yr, $5M), Letang (5yr, $6.1M), Graves (6yr, $4.5M), Jarry (5yr, $5.4M). Guentzel is a UFA next year, so he could have moved Crosby and Guentzel, the rest I doubt have any value.
So if he does nothing, it's 3 years before he can clear out veterans and their salaries, and most will have zero trade value.
In that sense, Karlsson may sell tickets but he locks Dubas into the status quo for the next two years.
They've now traded their 2024 1st and 3rd and 2025 2nd. Have an empty talent pipeline and no opportunity to rebuild for 3-4 years.
So when they finally start to rebuild, it may be well into the next decade before they're competitive again.
Dubas is in a no win situation, he could tank, but he can't move out most of the veterans due to their salaries, Crosby (2 more years $8.7M), Malkin ((3yr $6.1m), Rust (5yr, $5.1m), R Smith (2yr, $5M), Letang (5yr, $6.1M), Graves (6yr, $4.5M), Jarry (5yr, $5.4M). Guentzel is a UFA next year, so he could have moved Crosby and Guentzel, the rest I doubt have any value.
So if he does nothing, it's 3 years before he can clear out veterans and their salaries, and most will have zero trade value.
In that sense, Karlsson may sell tickets but he locks Dubas into the status quo for the next two years.
They've now traded their 2024 1st and 3rd and 2025 2nd. Have an empty talent pipeline and no opportunity to rebuild for 3-4 years.
So when they finally start to rebuild, it may be well into the next decade before they're competitive again.
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Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Ah no, Dubas is in a win-win situation with this.
The only reason you're shitting on this; the ONLY reason: is Dubas was used as an example of a competent GM to contrast to Fletcher, so now you will hold a life-long grudge against him just like you do with Zito, Trotz, Sakic, and Sullivan. Every stance you hold is in service to your favorite losers who you value higher than the team.
The NHL will never return to the big four of pro sports until they stop going completely silent for 2 months of the year. Every other sports league’s offseason is full of key dates and news stories that are discussed at length on sports talk outlets morning noon and night. Hockey spends the first month of the season trying to recapture the attention of casual fans. If Bettman wasn’t so blinded trying and failing to put hockey teams in deserts he might realize that having a league that is relevant year round, would increase HHR more than the Arizona Coyotes do while playing in a college hockey rink.
Gary Bettman is almost as dumb as Chuck Fletcher. And that, boys and girls, is saying something.
Gary Bettman is almost as dumb as Chuck Fletcher. And that, boys and girls, is saying something.
Sombastate
Registered User
Chuck spent more on Fisto. Dubas traded spare parts and bad macaroni salad for the best offensive defenseman in the game.
if we're gonna compare, let's compare correctly. Chuck spent more on Rasmus and TDA, one of which we're paying to play for a different team, the other we would all gladly pay to play for a different team.
if we're gonna compare, let's compare correctly. Chuck spent more on Rasmus and TDA, one of which we're paying to play for a different team, the other we would all gladly pay to play for a different team.
deadhead
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What does this have to do with Fletcher? Some of you people are obsessed.
It has to do with a bad situation, and Karlsson isn't going to turn Pittsburgh into a contender unless a whole roster of over-30 players (12 of 20 starters) suddenly find the fountain of youth.
One problem is a number of players bounced back last season, yet they still ended up with 91 points, which means there's more downside than upside.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Fletcher did Risto and TDA. That's what. It shows the contrast between a team with competent management, and a team with league-worst management.
And your whole response to this has been to sadly bash Dubas solely because you have to tear him down in defense of Fletcher.
Taijuan Fedotov
Bob Murray Approved Poster
Having been in AZ for a year now I have not once heard or saw anything related to the Coyotes. No shirts, no signs, no bumper stickers, no conversations at work. Nothing. Wyoming would be a better place for an NHL team than here.
kudymen
Hakstok was a fascist clique hiver lickballs.gif
You posted the following in this very thread regarding this very topic less than 24 hours ago! Pot meet f***ing kettle
You've reversed that. He's kettle. And judging by the memory loss, he met pot a long long time ago.
Curufinwe
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Yup. If they were going to rebuild they needed to do that before extending Shrek and Letang.
It also looks embarrassing when Flyer fans try to mock the Pens for going all in to get a few more years of relevance out of their generational superstar who already won them three Cups in 18 years.
The hockey season already covers every month but July and August.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
FSG has a plan. It's clear, it's sensible, it's in lock-step with the fans, it's not delusional. And when Crosby goes, they will go totally scorched earth for the better part of a decade. They hired a very savvy President of Hockey Operations -- who wasn't their zero experience color commentator -- and he managed to totally erase Hextall's mess, add depth, and bring in the reigning Norris winner for pretty damn cheap. No one gives a shit if they're a true top 3-5 contender. But they do look like an improved playoff team for a couple years. That's all they want as their 3-time Cup winning generational player is putting up almost 100 points at age 35. You're being purposefully obtuse to not see this for what it is.
Meanwhile, the Flyers will still be the worst team in the Metro, while not selling off assets, having no clear long-term plan for contending after a decade of futility, and Gregorian chanting in Tortorella's presence.
Meanwhile, the Flyers will still be the worst team in the Metro, while not selling off assets, having no clear long-term plan for contending after a decade of futility, and Gregorian chanting in Tortorella's presence.
FlyerNutter
In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Pittsburgh will have some fun riding off into the sunset, and could try for McKenna in a few years no?
Imagine growing up a hockey fan in this era cheering for the Penguins. Likeable players, fun approach to the game - and a solid ownership group that is most importantly able to approach the game in a modern way along with identifying its own mistakes.
But all that secondary depth the Flyers have had through the years.
Imagine growing up a hockey fan in this era cheering for the Penguins. Likeable players, fun approach to the game - and a solid ownership group that is most importantly able to approach the game in a modern way along with identifying its own mistakes.
But all that secondary depth the Flyers have had through the years.
CutOnDime97
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Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
It's OK though, because other wildly incompetent teams are also too incompetent to realize they need to be selling. Or something.
JojoTheWhale
"You should keep it." -- Striiker
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I would imagine the only prayer they ever had at being relevant in that market was sustained winning. This wasn’t Vegas where they got to a market first. They were the third major winter sport to arrive. That’s an impossible situation when you’re also the smallest sport.
Technically, you could argue baseball also got there first given that Spring Training had existed there since the 20s.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
Yup. If they were going to rebuild they needed to do that before extending Shrek and Letang.
It also looks embarrassing when Flyer fans try to mock the Pens for going all in to get a few more years of relevance out of their generational superstar who already won them three Cups in 18 years.
The hockey season already covers every month but July and August.
If they had the Flyers recent 10-15 year stretch then yeah it would be a different story. Even Washington to a lesser degree is letting the Ovechkin era run itself out naturally.
Part of the reason Pittsburgh fans were mad at Hextall is because he wouldn’t go after big names. He would go after secondary or depth pieces which a lot of them weren’t good. One of the reasons they’re happy with yesterday’s deal is it not only landed higher end player but it cleaned up two of Hextall’s mistakes in Petry & Granlund without really costing too much to do so.
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