Miscellaneous NHL Discussion XCVII: Florida Panthers vs. Vegas Golden Knights Stanley Cup Finals (Poll in OP)

[Beef Invictus]

I think it's deliberate dishonesty.

 

[freakydallas13]

So name all the positive moves Dubas made in 5 years?
95 and 105 points the two years before he took over. A great young core.
It's not like he built a team from ground zero.
His trades were meh, constantly bleed draft picks and did a meh job drafting.

So name all the positive moves Fletcher made in 4.5 years?
Made the playoffs every other year before he took over.
It's almost like he inherited a team full of assets available to trade for improvements.
His trades were awful, constantly bleeding draft picks and did a meh job drafting. Not to mention the terrible contracts.

 

[deadhead]

So name all the positive moves Fletcher made in 4.5 years?
Made the playoffs every other year before he took over.
It's almost like he inherited a team full of assets available to trade for improvements.
His trades were awful, constantly bleeding draft picks and did a meh job drafting. Not to mention the terrible contracts.

What's Fletcher got to do with it?
People were trying to sell Dubas - I'd rather take my chances with Briere than a mediocre retread, been there, done that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What's Fletcher got to do with it?
People were trying to sell Dubas - I'd rather take my chances with Briere than a mediocre retread, been there, done that.

Fletcher has everything to do with it. Dubas has outperformed Fletcher so you have to rip him down.

It's the exact same thing you did with every decent coach when Hakstol was here.

 

[freakydallas13]

What's Fletcher got to do with it?
People were trying to sell Dubas - I'd rather take my chances with Briere than a mediocre retread, been there, done that.

Imagine defending Charles Entertainment Fletcher and at the same time trying to denigrate Dubas.

 

[Curufinwe]

The last time the Flyers were in the same stratosphere as a team run by Dubas, the Covid pandemic hadn't even happened yet.

Teams you could compare Fletcher's Flyers to are Vancouver, Buffalo, Detroit, Columbus, San Jose, etc. Not Toronto.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

What's Fletcher got to do with it?
People were trying to sell Dubas - I'd rather take my chances with Briere than a mediocre retread, been there, done that.

The same briere who has include his coach and the PR rep in any decision? The same briere who learned from chuck and idolizes shooter? Same briere who was on board with Sanheim ext and wanted nic d? Danny is nothing more than a puppet until proven otherwise.

How is dubas a retread? Is it more on the players that have failed him or more on dubas?

 

[Curufinwe]

Why wouldn't Briere be onboard with the Sanheim extension? He's younger, better and cheaper than Provorov, who they can now hopefully move for a good return to a team run by a dopey old Hockey Guy who is too dumb to realize Provorov got steamrolled on defense in 22-23.

 

[deadhead]

The same briere who has include his coach and the PR rep in any decision? The same briere who learned from chuck and idolizes shooter? Same briere who was on board with Sanheim ext and wanted nic d? Danny is nothing more than a puppet until proven otherwise.

How is dubas a retread? Is it more on the players that have failed him or more on dubas?

He's been the GM for five years, how can you blame the players he's kept and added?
He was handed a team that averaged 100 points with a core in their early to mid-20s.
If you can't build a winner with that start . . . Marner (21), Matthews (21), Nylander (22), Rielly (24), Johnsson (24), C Brown (25), Kadri (28), Added JT (28)

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Why wouldn't Briere be onboard with the Sanheim extension? He's younger, better and cheaper than Provorov, who they can now hopefully move for a good return to a team run by a dopey old Hockey Guy who is too dumb to realize Provorov got steamrolled on defense in 22-23.

what does ivan have to do with overpaying sanheim? Sanheim should have bene traded. A team where the flyers are at should not be ext sanheim type player for 8 years with nmc.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

He's been the GM for five years, how can you blame the players he's kept and added?
He was handed a team that averaged 100 points with a core in their early to mid-20s.
If you can't build a winner with that start . . . Marner (21), Matthews (21), Nylander (22), Rielly (24), Johnsson (24), C Brown (25), Kadri (28), Added JT (28)

that's your take. You can easily blame the players, as they have not got it done. I dont recall many, if any, really bad mouthing the moved he made. On paper they looked good. More good than bad.

To say he is a retread is incorrect. His track record is better than average. Would take him and whatever staff he would bring with him over the flyers 3 headed monster any day.

 

[Magua]

There’s a reason I gulped when FSG bought the Penguins. It was inevitably going to lead to this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He's been the GM for five years, how can you blame the players he's kept and added?
He was handed a team that averaged 100 points with a core in their early to mid-20s.
If you can't build a winner with that start . . . Marner (21), Matthews (21), Nylander (22), Rielly (24), Johnsson (24), C Brown (25), Kadri (28), Added JT (28)

This is f***ing rich after you've spent years defending Fletcher for the state of the Flyers over the same span. I don't think you realize how embarrassing this should be for you.

It's also funny you act like Dubas walked in from out of nowhere and was handed this gift, as if he hadn't spent four years having say in building that team, and developing it. I wonder why you chose to misrepresent the situation? It seems awfully dishonest.

When your assertions can only stand thanks to dishonesty, they aren't worth making.

 

[deadhead]

that's your take. You can easily blame the players, as they have not got it done. I dont recall many, if any, really bad mouthing the moved he made. On paper they looked good. More good than bad.

To say he is a retread is incorrect. His track record is better than average. Would take him and whatever staff he would bring with him over the flyers 3 headed monster any day.

Exactly what moves looked good on paper?
Getting a first for Kapanen was probably his best, McCann doesn't count b/c he let him walk in the ED.
Other than that, I don't see anything that jumps out as a "steal." Jarnkok was his only good FA in five years.
He was handed the keys to the kingdom and dropped them.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Exactly what moves looked good on paper?
Getting a first for Kapanen was probably his best, McCann doesn't count b/c he let him walk in the ED.
Other than that, I don't see anything that jumps out as a "steal." Jarnkok was his only good FA in five years.
He was handed the keys to the kingdom and dropped them.

really? muzzin, giordnao, nak. Theres a couple

ROR Acciari Laferty Mcabe and schenn just this year

How would you describe what chuck did?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

what fresh Hell is this

 

[Beef Invictus]

Chuck only made one mistake, but last I heard that's apparently not a mistake anymore. Weird how a GM who made no mistakes since 2018 was outperformed by a GM who apparently did nothing but lackluster moves in the same span.

 

[DancingPanther]

Great. More spreadsheet nerds.

Jeez, that sounds exhausting. Why not just hire a good soldier, like Max Talbot

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Didn't they interview him already? So he'd already be on their radar.

Yeah, this would probably be the type of opportunity that could get Tulsky potentially in a GM spot. Otherwise I don’t see it happening elsewhere at this point.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Also with all of the contradicting stances going on here…

Does Zito getting the Panthers “over the hump” mean that he’s a good GM or nah?

 

[BiggE]

I thought all P of HOps needed to be easy to get along with broadcasters. Was I misinformed?

 

[deadhead]

Also with all of the contradicting stances going on here…

Does Zito getting the Panthers “over the hump” mean that he’s a good GM or nah?

No. What makes Zito a good GM is he has a lot of solid moves on his record.
His big black mark were the panic moves at last year's TDL that backfired.

The Tkachuk was an example of the "Branch Rickey" effect, "luck is the residue of design."
I think he made the trade b/c he couldn't afford to resign both Huberdeau and Weegar, so he turned them into a much younger star who also changed the dynamics of the team, adding a more physical player who thrived in the dirty areas, making a soft team tougher to play against.
It was a move with an eye more on the long-run, that paid off when Zito got lucky and Bob had the playoff of his career.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

No. What makes Zito a good GM is he has a lot of solid moves on his record.
His big black mark were the panic moves at last year's TDL that backfired.

The Tkachuk was an example of the "Branch Rickey" effect, "luck is the residue of design."
I think he made the trade b/c he couldn't afford to resign both Huberdeau and Weegar, so he turned them into a much younger star who also changed the dynamics of the team, adding a more physical player who thrived in the dirty areas, making a soft team tougher to play against.
It was a move with an eye more on the long-run, that paid off when Zito got lucky and Bob had the playoff of his career.

Ah, so things breaking your way (and not your way) in small sample sizes shouldn’t be used to determine if someone is good at their job or not.

Thanks.

 

[deadhead]

Ah, so things breaking your way (and not your way) in small sample sizes shouldn’t be used to determine if someone is good at their job or not.

Thanks.

A five year pattern of mediocre moves that don't change the dynamic of a "soft" team that can't advance in the playoffs is enough evidence to consider a GM to be second rate.

Compare to say Rutherford in Pittsburgh, who rebuilt a team that probably was no more talented and much older into a two time winner.

 

[Magua]

You know what you never hear about? Flyers staff getting poached or interviewed. Assistant coaches, AHL coaches, data types, AGMs. No staff member in the entire organization seems to be coveted around the league. Is that good?