Miscellaneous NHL Discussion XCVII: Florida Panthers vs. Vegas Golden Knights Stanley Cup Finals (Poll in OP)

[renberg]

With the contracts that were given to Crosby (two more years), Malkin (three more years) and LeTang (five more years), Dubas has his hands tied pretty tightly. Their minor league system is pretty barren as well. From what's been reported, Sullivan is tight with the veteran bunch so he's not going anywhere. The result will be changes only being made on the fringes in Pittsburgh.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So I guess Dubas will hire an assistant GM whom they’ll call the GM.

This would be like if Chuck only went by President of Hockey Ops, & they called Flahr the GM instead of AGM.

 

[Redpath]

I love that he's trying to validate the "Flyers model" as if it isn't a complete f***ing farce lol

The notion that any President with an iota of power is somehow in a Daryl Morey/Elton Brand style of President/GM power structure is ridiculous. Charlie should know better, but its easier just to repeat that Morey/Dombrowski line.

 

[ponder719]

So I guess Dubas will hire an assistant GM whom they’ll call the GM.

This would be like if Chuck only went by President of Hockey Ops, & they called Flahr the GM instead of AGM.

That, or Dubas will actually be President of Hockey Operations, and they'll hire a GM, who they'll call the GM. We'll know when we see it in action, not from guessing 20 minutes after half of the relevant hires were announced.

Not saying that the Flyers should definitely have hired Dubas, or even that he'd prefer our situation to Pittsburgh's (I don't know the man, can't begin to guess what his actual interests or preferences are), but this is exactly why we shouldn't have steamrolled ahead with the Jones hire. Sure, Jones might have been the best choice in their eyes even after casting a wider net, but Dubas leaving Toronto wasn't hard to predict, and now, they didn't even give themselves the opportunity to explore whether or not he'd be a good fit.

 

[Curufinwe]

Weird how the Pens didn't just hire their color commentator as PoHo.

The Penguins swoop in to hire a strong President.

The Flyers hire a President because Briere and Camillo are too afraid to periodically go on the radio.

Errey turned them down, so they went with Dubas.

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[Redpath]

Would we rather have a President with some organizational input, experience managing and assembling a competitive team, who has a fresh perspective from outside the Flyers, or a President who is adequate at talking on camera?

The over-reactive response to the Provorov Pride Night internal communications issue could have just helped Pittsburgh land a coveted President. Thank you, Val.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That, or Dubas will actually be President of Hockey Operations, and they'll hire a GM, who they'll call the GM. We'll know when we see it in action, not from guessing 20 minutes after half of the relevant hires were announced.

Not saying that the Flyers should definitely have hired Dubas, or even that he'd prefer our situation to Pittsburgh's (I don't know the man, can't begin to guess what his actual interests or preferences are), but this is exactly why we shouldn't have steamrolled ahead with the Jones hire. Sure, Jones might have been the best choice in their eyes even after casting a wider net, but Dubas leaving Toronto wasn't hard to predict, and now, they didn't even give themselves the opportunity to explore whether or not he'd be a good fit.

And what did Dubas accomplish in 5 seasons as Toronto GM?

Inherit a 105 point team from Lamoriello with a very young core of Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, Michael Nylander, & Morgan Rielly, win a grand total of ONE playoff series in those 5 years, & leave the organization in bad cap & contracts situations?

WOW!!

Must be the most overrated 5-year GM tenure in NHL history with the way people for some reason revere the Dubas name.

(I guess the fancy chart nerds see themselves in the youth, glasses, & reputation for analytics.)

Anyway, if you think that Dubas isn’t controlling personnel, & that he’s going to hire someone else to take the lead while he merely supervises, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

He was ousted by Toronto because he wanted MORE power, not less.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't know if it'll work for Pitt, but "I don't know" is a massive upgrade over what the Flyers are doing, which I know will fail

 

[BernieParent]

How dumb is this? Dubas isn't pals with all of the NHL front offices, and what kind of anecdotes does he have to share on radios and podcasts? He hasn't even played in the NHL!!!

 

[Redpath]

And what did Dubas accomplish in 5 seasons as Toronto GM?

Inherit a 105 point team from Lamoriello with a very young core of Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, Michael Nylander, & Morgan Rielly, win a grand total of ONE playoff series in those 5 years, & leave the organization in bad cap & contracts situations?

WOW!!

Must be the most overrated 5-year GM tenure in NHL history with the way people for some reason revere the Dubas name.

(I guess the fancy chart nerds see themselves in the youth, glasses, & reputation for analytics.)

Anyway, if you think that Dubas isn’t controlling personnel, & that he’s going to hire someone else to take the lead while he merely supervises, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

He was ousted by Toronto because he wanted MORE power, not less.

Even if you want to question how good of a GM/President Dubas is, it is still frustrating to see Pittsburgh go out, vet candidates for the top job, and hire the top job based on who they think it actually the best candidate.

Whereas the Flyers didn't even pretend to vet GM candidates, had a faulty vetting process for President, and openly admit that the President's hiring wasn't even about being the best actual candidate.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And what did Dubas accomplish in 5 seasons as Toronto GM?

Inherit a 105 point team from Lamoriello with a very young core of Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, Michael Nylander, & Morgan Rielly, win a grand total of ONE playoff series in those 5 years, & leave the organization in bad cap & contracts situations?

WOW!!

Must be the most overrated 5-year GM tenure in NHL history with the way people for some reason revere the Dubas name.

(I guess the fancy chart nerds see themselves in the youth, glasses, & reputation for analytics.)

Anyway, if you think that Dubas isn’t controlling personnel, & that he’s going to hire someone else to take the lead while he merely supervises, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

He was ousted by Toronto because he wanted MORE power, not less.

He made a joke of a team into an actual contender in short order.

Like if the Flyers were made into a contender sometime in the next 3-5 years. Whoever did that would be a miracle worker. And he did it in the face of overhead interference.

It's a shame we can't have that because it would disrupt the alumni's plaything.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Chuck Fletcher’s nearly five year tenure with the Flyers was more overrated by a certain few people here than what Dubas did.

I bet you felt so cool saying the “fancy chart nerds” line.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Even if you want to question how good of a GM/President Dubas is, it is still frustrating to see Pittsburgh go out, vet candidates for the top job, and hire the top job based on who they think it actually the best candidate.

Whereas the Flyers didn't even pretend to vet GM candidates, had a faulty vetting process for President, and openly admit that the President's hiring wasn't even about being the best actual candidate.

They knew Briere well, liked Briere, wanted Briere, & chose Briere.

Hiring someone else to obviate Briere’s personnel power made zero sense.

He’s their guy.

I don’t know why some people struggle to grasp this. Instead they wanted a re-tread to come in & run the show. Been there, done that.

 

[deadhead]

CF got to the 2nd rd in his first full season running the team, Dubas took five years after inheriting far more talent.
CF in Minnesota got to the 2nd rd twice.
Maybe the right answer is "neither?"

 

[Ghosts Beer]

He made a joke of a team into an actual contender in short order.

Like if the Flyers were made into a contender sometime in the next 3-5 years. Whoever did that would be a miracle worker. And he did it in the face of overhead interference.

It's a shame we can't have that because it would disrupt the alumni's plaything.

To repeat myself:

Dubas inherited a 105 point team from Lamoriello

With a very young core of Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, Michael Nylander, & Morgan Rielly

Won a grand total of ONE playoff series in those 5 years

And left the organization in bad cap & contracts situations.

That’s not inheriting “a joke of a team,” & it’s not the resume of “an actual contender,” either. You are wrong on both of these assertions.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The team that hired their tv analyst is certainly the envy of the league.

 

[Redpath]

They knew Briere well, liked Briere, wanted Briere, & chose Briere.

Hiring someone else to obviate Briere’s personnel power made zero sense.

He’s their guy.

I don’t know why some people struggle to grasp this. Instead they wanted a re-tread to come in & run the show. Been there, done that.

No, people grasp it. It's just the wrong mentality for the Flyers to have.

Of course the Flyers like Briere. But they liked Briere more than any candidate the entire hockey ether? Not even a measly interview of anyone else? No AGMs looking to make the jump elsewhere? Nothing?

Yes, we know Briere is their guy. They is very clear based on the fact that they didn't even think to consider anyone else. And I say this as someone who is excited to see what Briere does. He's a wildcard that I think can do well. But is was malfeasance to not even pretend to interview elsewhere.

Hiring a eunuch President so that Briere and Camillo don't have to talk to each other nor go on the radio makes even less sense.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

CF got to the 2nd rd in his first full season running the team, Dubas took five years after inheriting far more talent.
CF in Minnesota got to the 2nd rd twice.
Maybe the right answer is "neither?"

Yep, totally no context required here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They knew Briere well, liked Briere, wanted Briere, & chose Briere.

Hiring someone else to obviate Briere’s personnel power made zero sense.

He’s their guy.

I don’t know why some people struggle to grasp this. Instead they wanted a re-tread to come in & run the show. Been there, done that.

Briere is "the guy" of the architects of failure. That doesn't set off any alarms?

 

[Beef Invictus]

CF got to the 2nd rd in his first full season running the team, Dubas took five years after inheriting far more talent.
CF in Minnesota got to the 2nd rd twice.
Maybe the right answer is "neither?"

Which team is better at the end of their tenures? Which team has gotten steadily worse?

You won't answer.

 

[Beef Invictus]

To repeat myself:

Dubas inherited a 105 point team from Lamoriello

With a very young core of Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, Michael Nylander, & Morgan Rielly

Won a grand total of ONE playoff series in those 5 years

And left the organization in bad cap & contracts situations.

That’s not inheriting “a joke of a team,” & it’s not the resume of “an actual contender,” either. You are wrong on both of these assertions.

Dubas ran player development for that team. He had a hand in making it. Did you know that? Did you know he was an AGM there for years? Look at what Lou is doing in NY. Tell me who you think had significant influence in what the Leafs were doing.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Briere wasn’t hired on competence.

He was hired because he was a hockey guy, that also played nicely with Comcast.

It’s been reported many times about the disconnect between ownership, and hockey ops.

The hire was made to try to bridge that gap. Nothing more. Briere is a dumbass as he’s already shown. Kissed some ass to get into his position.

 

[WIP CALLER]

Chuck Fletcher's team eeked out a win in the first round against the lowest seeded playoff team in NHL history to reach the second round in the first year of his tenure then proceeded to bring the organization to its lowest point in franchise history. Meanwhile Dubas' team lost to the conference champion 4 out of his 5 years as GM while improving or at minimum maintaining the talent level in the organization pretty much every season. Leaving out that context sure seems like trolling to me but what do I know.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Comcast has recently signed off on hiring:

Vigneault, Tortorella. Fletcher. Promoting Briere. Keith Jones to hockey ops.

There is not a worse run organization in the NHL from a hockey ops standpoint. Not one. They are going to be lapped by Chicago, and San Jose just the newest teams in the mix.

Who is worse? Arizona? Woo

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Dubas ran player development for that team. He had a hand in making it. Did you know that? Did you know he was an AGM there for years? Look at what Lou is doing in NY. Tell me who you think had significant influence in what the Leafs were doing.

And you apparently thought he did a crap job if 5 minutes ago you were arguing he inherited “a joke of a team.”