Miscellaneous NHL Discussion XCVII: Florida Panthers vs. Vegas Golden Knights Stanley Cup Finals (Poll in OP)

[Beef Invictus]

Chuck Fletcher's team eeked out a win in the first round against the lowest seeded playoff team in NHL history to reach the second round in the first year of his tenure then proceeded to bring the organization to it's lowest point in franchise history. Meanwhile Dubas' team lost to the conference champion 4 out of his 5 years as GM while improving or at minimum maintaining the talent level in the organization pretty much every season. Leaving out that context sure seems like trolling to me but what do I know.

I do know that when supporting a point requires that degree of deliberate dishonesty, it's not a point worth presenting.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Beef Invictus]

View attachment 714428

And you apparently thought he did a crap job if 5 minutes ago you were arguing he inherited “a joke of a team.”

Bud, I was talking about when he was hired in 2014. That's when the Leafs started turning things around, remember? That would be a hell of a coincidence if those things were unrelated.

There's a reason why Leafs insiders consider him the architect and not Lou.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Chuck Fletcher worked in Pittsburgh when they went to two Cup Finals and they didn’t even interview him. Makes you wonder.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The heroic Fletcher took over an average team with a ton of assets to leverage and he made them worse in every possible way.

Villainous Dubas walked into a wreck and by the time he left they were among the best teams in the NHL.

I'm sure Briere, most notable for signing paperwork for an ECHL team, fetching milk for a horrible failure of a GM, and the terrible Deslauriers signing, is the same thing though.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Bud, I was talking about when he was hired in 2014. That's when the Leafs started turning things around, remember? That would be a hell of a coincidence if those things were unrelated.

There's a reason why Leafs insiders consider him the architect and not Lou.

Gee, that’s great. I’m talking about Dubas’ 5-year tenure actually in charge as GM.

Tell me next about how Toronto should have replaced Dubas with Hextall based on Hexy’s AGM tenure in Los Angeles.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Gee, that’s great. I’m talking about Dubas’ 5-year tenure actually in charge as GM.

Tell me next about how Toronto should have replaced Dubas with Hextall based on Hexy’s AGM tenure in Los Angeles.

Oh, the tenure where the team was among the best in the NHL?

Your second paragraph is a pile of nonsense. There's nothing comparable there. Would you like to try again?

Here is reality: Dubas walked into Toronto when it was a wreck and when he walked away they were among the top teams in the league. That's factual. Denying this reality is delusion or deliberate dishonesty. Which are you engaging in?

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

I know he hasn't played the automatic amount of games to get his name on the Cup, but what are the odds that Nolan Patrick gets his name on there or gets to hoist the trophy in a potential VGK celebration? Ugh.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Great. More spreadsheet nerds.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I know he hasn't played the automatic amount of games to get his name on the Cup, but what are the odds that Nolan Patrick gets his name on there or gets to hoist the trophy in a potential VGK celebration? Ugh.

They likely won’t request his name to be on the Cup, which they can do, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he got to lift the Cup if it came to that.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

They likely won’t request his name to be on the Cup, which they can do, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he got to lift the Cup if it came to that.

Yeah it probably depends on really what his involvement with the team is. I know they request it for guys that are injured when they are still heavily involved in the ongoing team operations, etc. I don't really pay attention to the Knights but I would think if he is still attending practices, meetings, and traveling with the team (even if he isn't really actively participating just is in and around the team) that they would request it for him. I think he played a handful of games for them last year and is expecting to return next year IIRC.

 

[AndHeMissedTheNet]

I am not, in the slightest. jealous of Pitt for hiring Dubas. If he ended up being the PoHO/GM here, i wouldn't be any more encouraged than i am with what they actually did. I have no reason to be. Dude built a relevant team that can't get over the hump. That's fine, i guess. Just... not particularly anything to get excited about.

 

[FLYguy3911]

 

[deadhead]

Yep, totally no context required here.

Please. If you want to suggest someone, find someone who can build a team.
Dubas did a mediocre job in Toronto, never had the balls to make the big move to take that team to the next level.
Toronto was built to put up regular season counting stats, not to win PO games.
His big moves:
1/28/19 Muzzin for Grundstrom, Durzi and 2019 1st
6/22/19 dump Marleau for 2020 1st
7/1/19 Barrie & Kerfort for Kadri, 2020 3rd
7/1/19 Ceci & 2020 3rd for Zaitsev, Connor Brown
2/5/20 Campbell for Trevor Moore, 2020 3rd, 2021 3rd
2/19/20 Malgin for Marchment
8/25/20 2020 1st, Rodriguez for Kapanen,
4/11/21 Foligno for 2021 4th
4/11/21 Rittich for 2021 3rd
7/17/21 McCann for Hallander [then let him go in the ED]
2/19/22 Lyubushkin & Dzingel for 2025 2nd
3/20/22 2023 3rd for McDermott
3/20/22 Giordano & Blackwell for 2022 2nd, 2023, 2nd, 2024 3rd
7/7/22 2022 2nd for 2022 1st and salary dump of Mrazek
7/11/22 Murray, 2023 3rd for salary dump
2/17/23 ROR & Accari for 2023 1st, 2023 3rd, 2024 2nd
2/23/23 McCabe for 2025 1st, 2026 2nd
2/28/23 L Schenn for 2023 3rd
2/28/23 2023 1st (#28 BOS) & Gustaffson for Sandin
2/28/23 2024 3rd for Engvall

7/1/18 signed JT to 7yr/$77M
7/28/21 signed Bunting to 2yr/$1.9M
7/28/21 signed Kampf 2yr/$3M
7/13/22 signed Samsonov to 1yr/$2M
7/15/22 signed Jarnkrok 4yr/$8.4M
10/9/22 signed Aston-Reese 1yr/$840K

Drafting
Sandin #29-2018 played 2 years, then flipped for #28
Kurzi #52-2018, traded
Knies #57-2021, played 7 games in the PO after 3 in the regular season.

Future picks: Boston #28 2023, 2024 1st, 2024 3rd (NYI), 2024 4th, 2025 3rd. That's it for the first 4 rounds the next three years.
$9M in cap space with 7 forwards signed. 6 D-man, including 39 year old Giordano and oft injured Timmins.

 

[Curufinwe]

Please. If you want to suggest someone, find someone who can build a team.
Dubas did a mediocre job in Toronto, never had the balls to make the big move to take that team to the next level.

When they beat Tampa, you were raving about his big move to trade for ROR.

It's really weird how you can't remember talking points you were spouting only weeks ago.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Watch them hire Tulsky as GM.

 

[Curufinwe]

CF got to the 2nd rd in his first full season running the team

And in the three years after that, their regular season records were:

Leafs - 4th

Flyers - 25th

 

[BernieParent]

They likely won’t request his name to be on the Cup, which they can do, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he got to lift the Cup if it came to that.

This made me think of the ridiculously unlikely scenario that the Coyotes win the Stanley Cup and the likes of Shea Weber, Jakub Voracek and Bryan Little get to hobble around with it.

Yes, I know 2 of these 3 contracts will be gone after this season. It's still funny. No, you're silly!

 

[ajgoal]

Watch them hire Tulsky as GM.

Didn't they interview him already? So he'd already be on their radar.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Please. If you want to suggest someone, find someone who can build a team.
Dubas did a mediocre job in Toronto, never had the balls to make the big move to take that team to the next level.
Toronto was built to put up regular season counting stats, not to win PO games.
His big moves:
1/28/19 Muzzin for Grundstrom, Durzi and 2019 1st
6/22/19 dump Marleau for 2020 1st
7/1/19 Barrie & Kerfort for Kadri, 2020 3rd
7/1/19 Ceci & 2020 3rd for Zaitsev, Connor Brown
2/5/20 Campbell for Trevor Moore, 2020 3rd, 2021 3rd
2/19/20 Malgin for Marchment
8/25/20 2020 1st, Rodriguez for Kapanen,
4/11/21 Foligno for 2021 4th
4/11/21 Rittich for 2021 3rd
7/17/21 McCann for Hallander [then let him go in the ED]
2/19/22 Lyubushkin & Dzingel for 2025 2nd
3/20/22 2023 3rd for McDermott
3/20/22 Giordano & Blackwell for 2022 2nd, 2023, 2nd, 2024 3rd
7/7/22 2022 2nd for 2022 1st and salary dump of Mrazek
7/11/22 Murray, 2023 3rd for salary dump
2/17/23 ROR & Accari for 2023 1st, 2023 3rd, 2024 2nd
2/23/23 McCabe for 2025 1st, 2026 2nd
2/28/23 L Schenn for 2023 3rd
2/28/23 2023 1st (#28 BOS) & Gustaffson for Sandin
2/28/23 2024 3rd for Engvall

7/1/18 signed JT to 7yr/$77M
7/28/21 signed Bunting to 2yr/$1.9M
7/28/21 signed Kampf 2yr/$3M
7/13/22 signed Samsonov to 1yr/$2M

Drafting
Sandin #29-2018 played 2 years, then flipped for #28
Kurzi #52-2018, traded
Knies #57-2021, played 7 games in the PO after 3 in the regular season.

Future picks: Boston #28 2023, 2024 1st, 2024 3rd (NYI), 2024 4th, 2025 3rd. That's it for the first 4 rounds the next three years.
$9M in cap space with 7 forwards signed. 6 D-man, including 39 year old Giordano and oft injured Timmins.
10/9/22 signed Aston-Reese 1yr/$840K
7/15/22 signed Jarnkrok 4yr/$8.4M

Oh yeah he's definitely no Chuck Fletcher, who I'm sure you think is hia equal.

 

[ajgoal]

Why are people getting worked up over Dubas? His biggest move was signing Tavares for $11 million a year for 7 years. Everyone knows Nolan Patrick was better and cheaper.

 

[tucson83]

To repeat myself:

Dubas inherited a 105 point team from Lamoriello

With a very young core of Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner, Michael Nylander, & Morgan Rielly

Won a grand total of ONE playoff series in those 5 years

And left the organization in bad cap & contracts situations.

That’s not inheriting “a joke of a team,” & it’s not the resume of “an actual contender,” either. You are wrong on both of these assertions.

like besides tavares, he hasnt brought in any high end talent especially on defense, i dont know how bringing in dubas would be any different than the other gms that havent done it.

 

[Striiker]

Would we rather have a President with some organizational input, experience managing and assembling a competitive team, who has a fresh perspective from outside the Flyers, or a President who is adequate at talking on camera?

Luckily for us, Jones is neither.

 

[freakydallas13]

Lmao contrarians, never change.

Imagine defending Charles Entertainment Fletcher and at the same time trying to denigrate Dubas.

I would say that the new wing of the Flyers propaganda division is working wonders on these galaxy brain geniuses, but honestly they have always had awful takes.

 

[deadhead]

Lmao contrarians, never change.

Imagine defending Charles Entertainment Fletcher and at the same time trying to denigrate Dubas.

I would say that the new wing of the Flyers propaganda division is working wonders on these galaxy brains geniuses, but honestly they have always had awful takes.

So name all the positive moves Dubas made in 5 years?
95 and 105 points the two years before he took over. A great young core.
It's not like he built a team from ground zero.
His trades were meh, constantly bleed draft picks and did a meh job drafting.