Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LXXXVI: 86 Proof

[Beef Invictus]

Apples and oranges.

Dislauriers is less a win now than set the tone of the clubhouse move (he's not moving the needle), now I question whether that's really needed . . . Braun makes more sense b/c with Ellis out there is no veteran leadership on defense.

TDA is a huge gamble, he has Norris trophy upside and Chernobyl meltdown downside. But he's 27, he's certainly part of the future if he's really turned his life around.

Giroux is 35, he simply makes no sense for this team, especially at $7M, neither does JVR and he's headed out the door.

Atkinson makes sense this year because he can help with the adjustment to Torts (sure players are picking his brains), but should be moved next summer.

JG was the right player at the wrong time, that is, if the FLyers had chosen to reload after 2018-19, they'd have been on the cusp of competing for the Cup, and JG would have been the final piece, but Holmgren choose "win now" and here we are. JG made no sense for this team at 29 and a 7x10 contract.

They are stumbling into a rebuild because I think if they actually say the word they'll all turn into pumpkins.

TDA does not have Norris upside.

 

[TB87]

TDA does not have Norris upside.

Defenseman who are this poor defensively never win the Norris lol. It’s not that he’s just bad defensively…he’s absolutely horrendous. The textbook definition of all offense-no defense

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Cracks me up that so many posters who love Ghost hate DeAngelo.

DeAngelo is prime Ghost.

 

[pit]

The odds of TDA getting a single Norris vote are slim to none.


Chuck Fletcher:

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

TDA is a huge gamble, he has Norris trophy upside

 

[deadhead]

The odds of TDA getting a single Norris vote are slim to none.


Chuck Fletcher:

TDA came in 12th in the Norris voting in 2019-20. Provorov was 17th that year.
Sanheim has never received a Norris vote.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

TDA came in 12th in the Norris voting in 2019-20. Provorov was 17th that year.
Sanheim has never received a Norris vote.

whoa

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Interesting.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[flyerslducks]

Man it feels so good to have a competent gm in Anaheim now. Now the ducks can flip him at the deadline, retain half, and get another 1st or asset for him if they aren’t in the playoff race.

Flyers, on the other hand, just throw contract out to players and make rash moves. Hayes and TDA….fletcher never waited and instead traded so many valuable assets away to make a quick move. We could’ve done this deal and saved some picks in the process and not sign a head scratcher in Tda.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'd love to see some surplus value analysis on UFA signings and the date the contract was signed (agreed to). I have to imagine July 1st (or whatever the 1st day of UFA is anymore) in a bloodbath in comparison to late summer signings.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Please, please do not use award finishes deep in the order as evidence of anything. This is the old argument that Carl Yastrzemski was a top tier HOFer because he finished in the top 20 in MVP voting 12 times. That's two or three (or even one in Yaz's case) random writers tossing him on a ballot in 5th place.

It's the type of factoid that's interesting in a vacuum but actively regresses the level of discourse when it's presented as relevant.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Man it feels so good to have a competent gm in Anaheim now. Now the ducks can flip him at the deadline, retain half, and get another 1st or asset for him if they aren’t in the playoff race.

Flyers, on the other hand, just throw contract our to players and make rash moves. Hayes and TDA….fletcher never waited and instead traded so many valuable assets away to make a quick move. We could’ve done this deal and saved some picks in the process and not sign a head scratcher in Tda.

So he and other GM's are supposed to wait 3 weeks into free agency to see if a Klingberg is still available. Makes sense. This was def Verbeeks Strategy.

Also why would Klinger want to come to Philly? That is part of the equation no?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Please, please do not use award finishes deep in the order as evidence of anything. This is the old argument that Carl Yastrzemski was a top tier HOFer because he finished in the top 20 in MVP voting 12 times. That's two or three (or even one in Yaz's case) random writers tossing him on a ballot in 5th place.

It's the type of factoid that's interesting in a vacuum but actively regresses the level of discourse when it's presented as relevant.

I went back and found the Norris voting from 2019-20 just to use this to illustrate my point. DeAngelo finished 4th in scoring among Defensemen that season. Here were all of TDA's Norris votes:

Linda Cohn ESPN 4th place
François Gagnon RDS 5th place
Shelly Anderson The Hockey News 5th place

That's what you would have to say has evaluative merit to find the point persuasive.

Sidenote: I didn't know Linda Cohn had award votes. I thought she was just a SportsCenter anchor.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cracks me up that so many posters who love Ghost hate DeAngelo.

DeAngelo is prime Ghost.

Prime Ghost could carry a pairing without needing to be carried. TDA cannot do that. They are not the same player.

We aren't even a year removed from you loudly trumpeting that you couldn't understand why anyone who was fine with Ghost would oppose bringing in Yandle, as they were both the same player. Remember how that went?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Prime Ghost could carry a pairing without needing to be carried. TDA cannot do that. They are not the same player.

We aren't even a year removed from you loudly trumpeting that you couldn't understand why anyone who was fine with Ghost would oppose bringing in Yandle, as they were both the same player. Remember how that went?

Yandle sucked. Worst defenseman I've ever seen wear the Flyers' logo. I've said it before. Congrats.

 

[mja]

Yandle sucked. Worst defenseman I've ever seen wear the Flyers' logo. I've said it before. Congrats.

So, you were mistaken when you said Yandle = Ghost. You think that would give one pause before declaring DeAngelo = Ghost.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So, you were mistaken when you said Yandle = Ghost. You think that would give one pause before declaring DeAngelo = Ghost.

I said I thought Yandle could fill the Ghost role -- PP plus sheltered 3D -- but $3.5M cheaper.

I didn't imagine Yandle would be the complete and utter disgrace 5 on 5 he was, considering Ghost was also terrible 5 on 5.

But yeah, Yandle was worse. Again, congrats.

So if you want to use me being wrong on how awful Yandle was to discount my opinion that DeAngelo is roughly the same player as prime Ghost, fine.

But it's also already been established that many people on this board overrate Ghost.

 

[Striiker]

Please, please do not use award finishes deep in the order as evidence of anything. This is the old argument that Carl Yastrzemski was a top tier HOFer because he finished in the top 20 in MVP voting 12 times. That's two or three (or even one in Yaz's case) random writers tossing him on a ballot in 5th place.

It's the type of factoid that's interesting in a vacuum but actively regresses the level of discourse when it's presented as relevant.

AV was 2nd in Jack Adams voting 2 years ago.

He must be a great coach.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

AV was 2nd in Norris voting 2 years ago.

He must be a great coach.

 

[flyerslducks]

So he and other GM's are supposed to wait 3 weeks into free agency to see if a Klingberg is still available. Makes sense. This was def Verbeeks Strategy.

Also why would Klinger want to come to Philly? That is part of the equation no?

Why tf would he sign in Anaheim? It definitely wasn’t his top choice. This is essentially equivocalant to what hall did signing with buffalo. Raise his value and try to get a contract in the summer.

I’m Not suggesting he wait 3 weeks but he is so trigger happy that he makes moves before free agency even begins. Risto…could’ve waited and gotten anyone more competent. Hayes…same thing. I’d rather have trocheck, strome, Manson, f***ing anyone but those two baboons. Tda…you just saw what being patient does—>burns.

And before people say "oh but hayes was essential as we didn’t have a 2c in Patrick"….if we didn’t sign him we would have higher draft picks, more cap space, more freedom to pursue players via trade/fa. Having cap space is so essential and teams are literally feasting on teams with shit cap space. Look at what seattle and Carolina just did to Vegas/San Jose/cbj. Bjorkstrand, burns, and patches for Pennie’s on the dollar compared to what we paid for risto/tda. This is what a competent gm does vs what fletcher does. This just screams to me that he is so desperate to save his job + he is really feeling the pressure OR he is just so bad that he makes these moves cus he really believes it helps. The moron doesn’t even look at his ducking options…he just jumps into a pool of sharks without asking questions

 

[Flyerfan18]

Man it feels so good to have a competent gm in Anaheim now. Now the ducks can flip him at the deadline, retain half, and get another 1st or asset for him if they aren’t in the playoff race.

Flyers, on the other hand, just throw contract out to players and make rash moves. Hayes and TDA….fletcher never waited and instead traded so many valuable assets away to make a quick move. We could’ve done this deal and saved some picks in the process and not sign a head scratcher in Tda.

It’s a good signing no doubt but Anaheim needed to sign him or trade for contracts just to get to the cap floor. It will be several years before we know if they are on the right track or not.

 

[flyerslducks]

Why tf would he sign in Anaheim? It definitely wasn’t his top choice. This is essentially equivocalant to what hall did signing with buffalo. Raise his value and try to get a contract in the summer.

I’m Not suggesting he wait 3 weeks but he is so trigger happy that he makes moves before free agency even begins. Risto…could’ve waited and gotten anyone more competent. Hayes…same thing. I’d rather have trocheck, strome, Manson, f***ing anyone but those two baboons. Tda…you just saw what being patient does—>burns.

And before people say "oh but hayes was essential as we didn’t have a 2c in Patrick"….if we didn’t sign him we would have higher draft picks, more cap space, more freedom to pursue players via trade/fa. Having cap space is so essential and teams are literally feasting on teams with shit cap space. Look at what seattle and Carolina just did to Vegas/San Jose/cbj. Bjorkstrand, burns, and patches for Pennie’s on the dollar compared to what we paid for risto/tda. This is what a competent gm does vs what fletcher does. This just screams to me that he is so desperate to save his job + he is really feeling the pressure OR he is just so bad that he makes these moves cus he really believes it helps. The moron doesn’t even look at his ducking options…he just jumps into a pool of sharks without asking questions

Essentially lol…I’d rather be a bad team WITH cap space then without it.

It’s a good signing no doubt but Anaheim needed to sign him or trade for contracts just to get to the cap floor. It will be several years before we know if they are on the right track or not.

At least they are at that point sooner than we are. We have to start selling our contracts, find a zegras/drysdale, get a ton of draft picks, get a respectable prospect pool all over again, and get cap space. Ducks are years ahead of us in this regard. All we are doing is preventing the inevitable. Kings did it right, now the ducks are. Getting to the cap floor is easy….just look at what fletcher hands out lol

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Why tf would he sign in Anaheim? It definitely wasn’t his top choice. This is essentially equivocalant to what hall did signing with buffalo. Raise his value and try to get a contract in the summer.

I’m Not suggesting he wait 3 weeks but he is so trigger happy that he makes moves before free agency even begins. Risto…could’ve waited and gotten anyone more competent. Hayes…same thing. I’d rather have trocheck, strome, Manson, f***ing anyone but those two baboons. Tda…you just saw what being patient does—>burns.

And before people say "oh but hayes was essential as we didn’t have a 2c in Patrick"….if we didn’t sign him we would have higher draft picks, more cap space, more freedom to pursue players via trade/fa. Having cap space is so essential and teams are literally feasting on teams with shit cap space. Look at what seattle and Carolina just did to Vegas/San Jose/cbj. Bjorkstrand, burns, and patches for Pennie’s on the dollar compared to what we paid for risto/tda. This is what a competent gm does vs what fletcher does. This just screams to me that he is so desperate to save his job + he is really feeling the pressure OR he is just so bad that he makes these moves cus he really believes it helps. The moron doesn’t even look at his ducking options…he just jumps into a pool of sharks without asking questions

So why go to philly to raise your value and play for a defense first coach? Where does he have a better chance to raise that value, Ducks or FLyers?

Many things to rip on the GM for, this isnt one of them.