NHL Talk Miscellaneous NHL Discussion CIX: Processing a Tremendous Amount of Insane Information

[Cody Webster]

I'll be happy if Drysdale ends up like Ghost, 3rd pair, PP1 QB. That's all I expect.
York, Sanheim, Bonk and a player to be named later (probably drafted this summer) as the top 4.
Drysdale, Mills, Sotheran, Andrae, McDonald bringing up the rear.

Knock Torts all you want, but name all the players who played better after they left him.
Dubois, Seth Jones, . . .
Panarin was an elite scorer in CBJ, just had better talent around him in NY.
(2.80 pp/60 his 2nd season in CBJ, then 3.28, 3.04, 2.53, 2.45, 2.86 in NY)

Karlsson the only one who comes to mind, mostly b/c he wasn't behind 2 other young centers in Vegas.

What will make or break the Flyers will be Briere's decisions over the next 12 months or so.

Which Ghost? The one who was a solid 2nd pair guy or the one after his knees started to go and became a 3rd pair/PP 1 guy on good teams (1st pair on Zona, AMac was 1st pair on the Islanders).

I'd be happy with the later as the floor and the former as his ceiling.

You want to pair Drysdale with a physical, D-first partner to CYA.

The two strong spots? Wing and RHD.
The weak spots, LHD and Center.

Think we'll draft at least one LHD this summer, along with another C, hard not to, with so many picks in the top 40 (probably 5).

Your words, not mine

Drysdale needs a lot of work on defense, which makes you wonder about Anaheim's development and coaching. Could be as bad as Buffalo (see all the players who left and did better).

Flyers know that, that will be the focus with him this season, one reason they wanted to pair him with Seeler.

Were really questioning Anaheim's development and coaching? When was the last time the Flyers fully developed a prospect?

 

[FlyerNutter]

Your words, not mine

Were really questioning Anaheim's development and coaching? When was the last time the Flyers fully developed a prospect?

Someone worth an actual damn?

Claude Giroux, and Sean Couturier.

 

[PDX Flyer]

Someone worth an actual damn?

Claude Giroux, and Sean Couturier.

Coots is a stretch. They tried to make him a third line checking center. He basically had to go to management and demand a more offensive role. He developed in spite of the Flyers, not because of their ability

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[renberg]

Your words, not mine

When was the last time the Flyers fully developed a prospect?

TK.

As for Drysdale’s lack of development while in Anaheim, he was just thrown to the wolves. A first rounder must play thing. Bad coaching with little help from partners on the back end. The Ducks played a lot of zone defense and played it badly.

 

[deadhead]

Were really questioning Anaheim's development and coaching? When was the last time the Flyers fully developed a prospect?

Sanheim, York. TK, Farabee (his struggles have been due to the neck injury)
Tippett after Florida screwed him up.
Foerster coming along nicely, Cates has grossly outperformed his 5th rd status.
Seeler, from AHL to NHL starter
Frost has developed, but slower than expected

Lindblom was progressing nicely until cancer.
Patrick, we'll never know after his brains got scrambled
Allison was sidetrack by injuries, same with Laberge
Rubtsov, JOB were "failures" by D+2. Ginning, NAK were overdrafted
Ratliffe might be the biggest potential development failure, along with Hagg
Attard, Andrae, Brink, incomplete grade

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Sanheim, York. TK, Farabee (his struggles have been due to the neck injury)
Tippett after Florida screwed him up.
Foerster coming along nicely, Cates has grossly outperformed his 5th rd status.
Seeler, from AHL to NHL starter
Frost has developed, but slower than expected

Lindblom was progressing nicely until cancer.
Patrick, we'll never know after his brains got scrambled
Allison was sidetrack by injuries, same with Laberge
Rubtsov, JOB were "failures" by D+2. Ginning, NAK were overdrafted
Ratliffe might be the biggest potential development failure, along with Hagg
Attard, Andrae, Brink, incomplete grade

Farabee wasn't lighting it up before surgery. So to put it all on that is wrong.
Florida didn't screw up Tippet.
Seeler was much older.

How much is coaching/development compared to these guys just naturally progressing? TK for example. Development or more he was always talented now figuring it out more as he progresses.

Just bad picks is the bottom line.

 

[Magua]

Betting on half a season is a risk — and it feels pricey, probably a product of the Utah situation — but I’m going to always have more respect for betting on your young talent than bridge deals galore. The downside isn’t catastrophic if you check enough boxes pre-signing.

Now, square this one. The Flyers never ever ever ever trade any prospects on their ELCs because they overvalue their pool, but they also rarely hand out long-term RFA contracts because they’re afraid to bet on that young talent (or sour on them). Well, besides 25 year old Owen Tippett, who is their 2nd most important long-term piece after Michkov.

 

[freakydallas13]

Betting on half a season is a risk — and it feels pricey, probably a product of the Utah situation — but I’m going to always have more respect for betting on your young talent than bridge deals galore. The downside isn’t catastrophic if you check enough boxes pre-signing.

Now, square this one. The Flyers never ever ever ever trade any prospects on their ELCs because they overvalue their pool, but they also rarely hand out long-term RFA contracts because they’re afraid to bet on that young talent (or sour on them). Well, besides 25 year old Owen Tippett, who is their 2nd most important long-term piece after Michkov.

Tippet:
Age 25
78 Games played
28 goals
25 assists
53 points
8 years, $50 million dollars

Mystery Flyers Player: (at the time he signed his contract last year)
Age 24
81 Games played
19 goals
27 assists
46 points
2 years, $2 million dollars

I ask you, Flyers HF boards, is the 7 point production difference between Tipperino and this mystery player worth an extra 6 years and $48 million dollars?

Much to consider.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Tippet:
Age 25
78 Games played
28 goals
25 assists
53 points
8 years, $50 million dollars

Mystery Flyers Player: (at the time he signed his contract last year)
Age 24
81 Games played
19 goals
27 assists
46 points
2 years, $2 million dollars

I ask you, Flyers HF boards, is the 7 point production difference between Tipperino and this mystery player worth an extra 6 years and $48 million dollars?

Much to consider.

I don't know how I feel about the Tippet contract, but I really do think he's a 35 goal power forward type, teams pay will pay that price for guys like that, if he never reaches it, it's not so good. Frost needs to cement himself as a 2C this year, he will likely have Michkov on his flank, I hope he puts together a great year.

 

[deadhead]

Bridge contracts to 25 or so for your top six players is fine, then 8 year deal to 33.
Figure it's a tradeoff, maybe one year too many for more information whether they're worth extending in the first place.

Tippett is a fine contract, 27 and 28 goal seasons before he was 25, one of the fastest players in the league at 6'1 210. Not a high IQ guy, but not a stone idiot either. At a little more than $6M a year with a rising cap, could end up a bargain.

Frost is playing for a long-term deal. They want to see him take a step up, he has progressed the last two years, stronger, better on defense, but still has to learn to be "the man" when he's on the ice - you don't pay top six money for a center who doesn't drive play.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

I don't know how I feel about the Tippet contract, but I really do think he's a 35 goal power forward type, teams pay will pay that price for guys like that, if he never reaches it, it's not so good. Frost needs to cement himself as a 2C this year, he will likely have Michkov on his flank, I hope he puts together a great year.

Power forward he is not. He gets by with his speed. Rarely does he leverage his size or throw his weight around

 

[Deadpool8812]

I don't know how I feel about the Tippet contract, but I really do think he's a 35 goal power forward type, teams pay will pay that price for guys like that, if he never reaches it, it's not so good. Frost needs to cement himself as a 2C this year, he will likely have Michkov on his flank, I hope he puts together a great year.

I like Tippett, but he has shown nothing in terms of being a power forward and I don't understand why so many people consider him one

 

[Curufinwe]

I saw some great Freezing Cold Takes today about Ohtani. Someone should run an account but just for hockey. They probably already do.

 

[deadhead]

Foerster is more likely to be a true power forward, though Tippett is physical (148 hits last year), he's not the big body guy who attacks the net. More a speedy forechecker who's skilled enough to be a good entry forward.

Probably why they signed Eklind and drafted Berglund and Powell.
Hathaway is physical enough, but lacks the hands to be an effective PF.

Ironically, for all the fan talk about how they're obsessed with size, the last few years the Flyers have been one of the smallest teams in the NHL.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Power forward he is not. He gets by with his speed. Rarely does he leverage his size or throw his weight around

I like Tippett, but he has shown nothing in terms of being a power forward and I don't understand why so many people consider him one

I feel like he's a modern day pf, imo, we don't see John LeClair's anymore really. He's big bodied, drives the net and has a wicked shot, just how I see him, people considered Wayne Simmonds a power forward too, I think Tippet is more talented as well. But to be honest Power forward is a stupid term probably shouldn't of used it, it's so hard to really say who is or who isn't one lmao

 

[deadhead]

To me a power forward lives just outside the blue paint, screening the goalie's vision, tipping shots, potting rebounds, a lot of his shots should be 10-20', not from the perimeter.

JVR wasn't a true PF b/c he liked to hang out on the edge of the blue paint, where D-men generally don't take on a forward b/c it takes them out of position. It's where they have TK playing at times. Farabee would be good there.

In front of the net, D-men will push and cross check you to protect their goalie, so you need a big guy with snarl and good hands for the deflection.

Foerster could be that guy, right now listed at 6'2 215 at 22, should fill out a little bit more. Has some edge and net front is good place to garner garbage goals. Not sure anyone else on the current roster can fill that role, though Eklind will probably get a long look.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Foerster is more likely to be a true power forward, though Tippett is physical (148 hits last year), he's not the big body guy who attacks the net. More a speedy forechecker who's skilled enough to be a good entry forward.

Probably why they signed Eklind and drafted Berglund and Powell.
Hathaway is physical enough, but lacks the hands to be an effective PF.

Ironically, for all the fan talk about how they're obsessed with size, the last few years the Flyers have been one of the smallest teams in the NHL.

Good lord. Tippet isn't physical really.

To me a power forward lives just outside the blue paint, screening the goalie's vision, tipping shots, potting rebounds, a lot of his shots should be 10-20', not from the perimeter.

JVR wasn't a true PF b/c he liked to hang out on the edge of the blue paint, where D-men generally don't take on a forward b/c it takes them out of position. It's where they have TK playing at times. Farabee would be good there.

In front of the net, D-men will push and cross check you to protect their goalie, so you need a big guy with snarl and good hands for the deflection.

Foerster could be that guy, right now listed at 6'2 215 at 22, should fill out a little bit more. Has some edge and net front is good place to garner garbage goals. Not sure anyone else on the current roster can fill that role, though Eklind will probably get a long look.

Nope not even really on the radar. Never dominated hos euro league. Lets see if he shows he is too "good" for the AHL.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

I feel like he's a modern day pf, imo, we don't see John LeClair's anymore really. He's big bodied, drives the net and has a wicked shot, just how I see him, people considered Wayne Simmonds a power forward too, I think Tippet is more talented as well. But to be honest Power forward is a stupid term probably shouldn't of used it, it's so hard to really say who is or who isn't one lmao

Wayne Simmonds played a more power forward game than tippett and dudes body paid the price. Tippett uses speed and finesse to get his shots on net.

 

[deadhead]

Simmonds had the heart of a lion, but that scrawny body wasn't built for that kind of punishment.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Wayne Simmonds played a more power forward game than tippett and dudes body paid the price. Tippett uses speed and finesse to get his shots on net.

Simmonds had the heart of a lion, but that scrawny body wasn't built for that kind of punishment.

True

 

[Beef Invictus]

Which Ghost? The one who was a solid 2nd pair guy or the one after his knees started to go and became a 3rd pair/PP 1 guy on good teams (1st pair on Zona, AMac was 1st pair on the Islanders).

I'd be happy with the later as the floor and the former as his ceiling.

You want to pair Drysdale with a physical, D-first partner to CYA.

The two strong spots? Wing and RHD.
The weak spots, LHD and Center.

Think we'll draft at least one LHD this summer, along with another C, hard not to, with so many picks in the top 40 (probably 5).

The fact that you have always insisted that Ghost is barely a #6 makes the Flyers' inability to replace him seem even worse.

It doesn't work as the defense you think it does.

 

[deadhead]

Ghost was on the 3rd pair in both Carolina and Detroit, 5th in ES minutes among Detroit D-men last season. That's what he is on a team with playoff aspirations. He's not the same player you remember since he had both knees scoped. Playing 1st pair in Zona was like Amac playing 1st pair for NYI.

His value in on the PP, not at ES.
That's my expectation for Drysdale, if he plays like a top 4 D-man this year at ES that's a bonus.

 

[WolfOfBroadStreet14]

I'm still mad to this day we traded Gudas

I’m still mad to this day Gudas injured prime offensive Coots in the playoffs during practice.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Ghost was on the 3rd pair in both Carolina and Detroit, 5th in ES minutes among Detroit D-men last season. That's what he is on a team with playoff aspirations. He's not the same player you remember since he had both knees scoped. Playing 1st pair in Zona was like Amac playing 1st pair for NYI.

His value in on the PP, not at ES.
That's my expectation for Drysdale, if he plays like a top 4 D-man this year at ES that's a bonus.

Well for a top 6 pick that is a total disappointment. I want to see him play 75 games; regardless how he plays. Then go from there.

What makes you even think he will be the top dman on the PP?