Mirtle: End is near for Hyman in Toronto

[Dreakmur]

Good Show put this into perspective. How many players like this in their late 20s sign a big contract that becomes an anchor on year 1?

Backes, Clarkson, Okposo, Leino, Ladd, Lucic, etc. Hard miles do not age overly well. How many power forwards who sign big contracts actually turn out to be good value?

I don't think we can offer 5M for more than 2 years. Happy for Hyman and I hope he gets money, he earned it. But we shouldn't do it

Hyman isn’t a power forward. He just works hard all the time. Those guys hit and fought a lot, and Hyman doesn’t do that.

All Hyman does is work hard every time he’s on the ice.

The fact that it stands out so much on the Leafs is a huge problem.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

Dubas always said, when he handed out those contracts to the big 4, that they'd have to get creative with the edges of the roster. But these cuts are starting to hit pretty deep. First Connor Brown, then Kapanen and Johnsson, now Hyman. And maybe Rielly next?

And that's with no real albatross (ie, cap dump) contracts...Freddy coming off the books and a dirt cheap replacement in place...and an army of low cost veterans filling out the roster.

...and then you consider that we've got nothing for all our "own rentals" (Komarov, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner, Barrie, now Hyman) to keep a flow of talent coming.

...and that we traded more assets to maintain cap flexibility (Marleau) and add resources for failed playoff runs (Foligno, etc.).

...and then the flat cap, just to stick an extra nail in the coffin!

...But let's not forget the coup to gras! Our core, for whom we've made all these sacrifices, turns out to be a bunch of underachieving choke artists! And just as we realize we need to upgrade the supporting cast, it becomes as clear as ever that we can't even afford the middle class players we already have.

Dang.

Very, very well said.

I fear unless the big 4 have another gear come next post season it will be more of the same.

I don't realistically see how next years team is going to be better than this one was. Considering Hyman is most likely gone and Foligno, Spezza a year older. How do we get better? We will barely be "as good".

You say trade Rielly but thats a lateral move or small improvement at best if we trade him plus add for a better D on the back end, that's still not replacing Hyman.

We better hope some kids step up like Lil, Sandin, Robertson and Brooks next year.

But i really do have a hard time thinking at least on paper, that next years team will be better than this one.

Thornton gone is addition by subtraction at least.

It's going to be an interesting off-season thats for damn sure.

 

[Superstar]

Flat cap does actually help. Way more $750K/lower priced players available to fill out the bottom of the roster.

You like Vesey, how about Thornton? Spezza is an exception rather than the norm, but even he is old and needs to be used sparingly...even Simmonds cost $1.5 million...to say a flat cap helps is ridiculous...if it wasn't for the pandemic, the cap would probably be at $85 to $86 million now...enough to sign a couple of decent 3rd/4th liners, not over-the-hill or fringe NHL scrubs.

 

[Menzinger]

I guess, but what has he ever done in the playoffs playing top minutes?

No doubt Hyman works his ass off, but in t playoff series playing with AM, MM, JT AND WN he has never scored more than 1 goal.

The Leafs PK has been terrible twice, and it's not like he goes out and crushes everyone.

Where are all the people that said Hyman was a "True Leaf" and take a hometown discount?

The Leafs need more guys that work like Hyman, but not for 5 or 6 million

He's been a good soldier for the team.

But fact is he hasnt performed like a core player in the playoffs - especially the last couple. His body just can't take it.

No ill will to see him do what's best for him/his family. But if the Leafs do pass on giving him this rumored level of salary - it's a good decision.

 

[NastyKnies]

Because this board is overrun by Dubas and Shanahan haters atm. They would rather be right than have a good team.

They could not sign Hyman and there will be outrage

They could sign him and the same people will be upset for the opposite reason

Imagine using the word haters...

 

[Superstar]

Dubas always said, when he handed out those contracts to the big 4, that they'd have to get creative with the edges of the roster. But these cuts are starting to hit pretty deep. First Connor Brown, then Kapanen and Johnsson, now Hyman. And maybe Rielly next?

And that's with no real albatross (ie, cap dump) contracts...Freddy coming off the books and a dirt cheap replacement in place...and an army of low cost veterans filling out the roster.

...and then you consider that we've got nothing for all our "own rentals" (Komarov, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner, Barrie, now Hyman) to keep a flow of talent coming.

...and that we traded more assets to maintain cap flexibility (Marleau) and add resources for failed playoff runs (Foligno, etc.).

...and then the flat cap, just to stick an extra nail in the coffin!

...But let's not forget the coup to gras! Our core, for whom we've made all these sacrifices, turns out to be a bunch of underachieving choke artists! And just as we realize we need to upgrade the supporting cast, it becomes as clear as ever that we can't even afford the middle class players we already have.

Dang.

Imagine if Dubas didn't luck out into Jack Campbell being able to play as a starter? Leafs still need another goalie, and I'm not sure if Campell could handle 55 to 60 games per season as a starter.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

When he was at his peak we had our chance with him for years but blew it. He’s only going to decline so ya gotta walk away rather than pay more than what he was making previously.
ciao Zack, thanks for the good times.

 

[Westlander]

It’s a pity but we can’t afford him at the market rate and even if we could, signing him long term would be a bad idea because of age and injury potential. Wish him well elsewhere, hopefully in the west.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Hyman's improvement as a player since his first year has been nothing short of incredible. Unfortunately, the Leafs can't really afford to pay market value for a player like him. this is probably the biggest loss we've seen so far under Dubas

 

[rumman]

Ok, see ya. Did nothing in the first round. Don’t blame it on the injuries. How long does it take to get things going?
3rd line player that was force fed 1st line minutes.

At least Zack isn’t a tin man, ie a player with no heart like most of the rest of the roster. Even injured he’s better than most.

 

[rumman]

Heart and soul guy walks for nothing. Explain to me how things will be better next year again?

This year looks like “peak” Maple Leafs and it gets uglier from here....

Who’s going to do the dirty work for the divas when Zack signs elsewhere?

 

[IPS]

Imagine if Dubas didn't luck out into Jack Campbell being able to play as a starter? Leafs still need another goalie, and I'm not sure if Campell could handle 55 to 60 games per season as a starter.

There's no guarantee Campbell replicates his play from this season into next season.

If he doesn't - it's very possible the Leafs descend into a non-playoff team.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Dubas always said, when he handed out those contracts to the big 4, that they'd have to get creative with the edges of the roster. But these cuts are starting to hit pretty deep. First Connor Brown, then Kapanen and Johnsson, now Hyman. And maybe Rielly next?

And that's with no real albatross (ie, cap dump) contracts...Freddy coming off the books and a dirt cheap replacement in place...and an army of low cost veterans filling out the roster.

...and then you consider that we've got nothing for all our "own rentals" (Komarov, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner, Barrie, now Hyman) to keep a flow of talent coming.

...and that we traded more assets to maintain cap flexibility (Marleau) and add resources for failed playoff runs (Foligno, etc.).

...and then the flat cap, just to stick an extra nail in the coffin!

...But let's not forget the coup to gras! Our core, for whom we've made all these sacrifices, turns out to be a bunch of underachieving choke artists! And just as we realize we need to upgrade the supporting cast, it becomes as clear as ever that we can't even afford the middle class players we already have.

Dang.

A remarkably good post.

I can't for the life of me see how there isn't a locker room problem. We have utterly elite 100 million career earners who flat out coerced overpayments... and the more "middle class" hockey players are squeezed and asked to take discounts. It's greed the likes of which I can't even fathom. When 100 million dollar ceo's demand overpayments at the expense of their more middle class employees, we consider them evil.

 

[socko]

Who’s going to do the dirty work for the divas when Zack signs elsewhere?

Some team is ready to take our 2022 first round pick.... Dubas hasn't given that away yet right?

 

[rumman]

It’s the leaving for nothing angle that hurts our prospects. I agree we can’t afford him, but walking for no return, that’s not a recipe for future success.

Not walking for nothing, he was the Leafs “own rental” for one unsuccessful playoff series.

 

[Mess]

I guess, but what has he ever done in the playoffs playing top minutes?

No doubt Hyman works his ass off, but in t playoff series playing with AM, MM, JT AND WN he has never scored more than 1 goal.

The Leafs PK has been terrible twice, and it's not like he goes out and crushes everyone.

Where are all the people that said Hyman was a "True Leaf" and take a hometown discount?

The Leafs need more guys that work like Hyman, but not for 5 or 6 million

The top 30 regular season top scorers are littered with all the best and well paid millionaires who apparently are worth the $$, of which Mark Stone remains the only one standing. Now they're all littering the golf courses during the Stanley Cup playoffs booking early tee times. Now is the time of the blue collar hard working players of which Hyman is one of them, so I wouldn't paint him with the team shortcomings of his high priced teammates, to claim he isn't worth even 1/2 their money in contract.

Speaking of goal scoring here is Zach Hyman goal production in comparison to his $11 mil line-mate for the past 2 season regular and playoffs.

Zach Hyman
2019-20 .... 51 games .. 21 goals & playoffs .. 5 games 1 goals.
2020-21 .....43 games ...15 goals & playoffs ...7 games 1 goals.

Total last 2 years = 94 games .. 36 regular season and 2 playoff goals.

Mitch Marner (@ $10.9 mil AAV)
2019-20 .... 59 games .. 16 goals & playoffs .. 5 games 0 goals.
2020-21 .....55 games ...20 goals & playoffs ...7 games 0 goals.

Total last 2 years = 114 games .. 36 regular season and 0 playoff goals.

Hard to believe a player that produces nearly identical goals (in less games played) isn't worth 1/2 the salary of $5-6 mil, because of only 2 playoff goals but the player in comparison making $10.9 mil that hasn't scored in 18 games spread out over 3 playoff years now is fine.

Maybe your asking the right question "what has he ever done in the playoffs playing top minutes?", but asking the wrong players ,when deciding financial worth to the team or somehow painting him with a different brush for similar results.

Perhaps since Leafs need more players like Hyman, then it would better to pay him his $5-6 mil for 36 goals, and bring in another player like him capable of another 30-36 for another $5-$6 mil and get rid of that top heavy guy making $11 mil if this is a cap issue and value to the team.

 

[rumman]

Whoever gives him this contract will regret it

He’s declining and coming off two bad knee injuries

Given how his style will age, I’m thankful that we won’t be stuck with his cap hit

Is he declining declining or declining like Uncle Leo and Matt Martin declining? Asking for a friend......

 

[Lauro]

I'll miss him, but ...
--> his next contract will be an overpayment that gets even bigger year after year
--> the reason we loved him was he played playoff style all season ... but once the opponents did it too, he didn't do much anymore --> we need players that can elevate their game in the playoffs

 

[killer1980]

The puck will now sit in the corner or along the boards in the offensive zone with no Leaf jersey in sight. Hyman was the only Leaf that would go near that dangerous part of the rink. GL to the team, more regression with even the hope of the playoffs looking further and further away.

 

[ITM]

Silver linings and what not...Does Adam Brooks qualify as a possible replacement?

Looked good to me.

 

[rumman]

So Dubas does know how to say "no".

His new theory is you can win paying half your cap to 4 players and win with no heart players.....

 

[McSnypsky]

Hyman is a good 3rd liner that got more points cause he was played to far up, now the price is way up because of that perception and those added points for doing so. The 3rd line needs guys like him but the 1st and 2nd needs guys like him with more skill that's what you pay 5mill for.

Also is it official we're blaming Dubas for the flatcap and how come he didn't plan for it? I mean if cap went up as usual we might have Pietrangelo etc.

 

[socko]

I'll miss him, but ...
--> his next contract will be an overpayment that gets even bigger year after year
--> the reason we loved him was he played playoff style all season ... but once the opponents did it too, he didn't do much anymore --> we need players that can elevate their game in the playoffs

That's Morgan Rielly. The next guy to walk.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

There's no guarantee Campbell replicates his play from this season into next season.

If he doesn't - it's very possible the Leafs descend into a non-playoff team.

Even if Soup maintains his play best bet right now is 4th place .. and maybe 2nd wildcard spot .. but more likely just out of playoffs .. then we can get a new prez/GM and retool team

 

[rumman]

That’s just silly, rather than debate the predicament you’re actually saying people want us to fail. Ya okay, I felt great after Game 7. Bullocks. We failed, there are consequences.

It’s the fan’s fault.......for wanting “grit”