Mirtle: End is near for Hyman in Toronto

[Menzinger]

That's probably not likely.

But these discussions about durability were had when Muzzin needed to be re-signed and they did.

I think Hymans has shown more wear and tear on his body than Muzzin did at this point. Muzzin had the injury in the Jackets series but it was the type that could have happened to anyone rather than specifically the result of sustained milage.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Good Show put this into perspective. How many players like this in their late 20s sign a big contract that becomes an anchor on year 1?

Backes, Clarkson, Okposo, Leino, Ladd, Lucic, etc. Hard miles do not age overly well. How many power forwards who sign big contracts actually turn out to be good value?

I don't think we can offer 5M for more than 2 years. Happy for Hyman and I hope he gets money, he earned it. But we shouldn't do it

 

[hotpaws]

I would be gutted to see Hyman go. Really, really gutted. We need more like him, not less.

you'll get over it pretty quickly once you see how he plays without elite talent and how quickly his contract turns into a cap anchor

what we need is hard working players with a decent level of skill , that's not Hyman who's easily replaceable internally by just playing Mik on the top line and telling him to glue himself to the crease after his initial forecheck like Hey-Man does

i'm just hoping this article is accurate and Hyman is leaving

 

[RoadWarrior]

Love Hyman, but its probably best that the Leafs arent the ones giving him his next contract.

Hyman knows he won't win in Toronto. If the choice is between Hyman or Rielly then you re-sign Rielly.

The problem is that because Hyman works so hard he will get overpaid. Ideally they need more guys in the pipeline to replace guys like Zach.

Robertson is a good bet.

 

[hamzarocks]

This is the darkest time to be a leaf fan

A guy like Hyman walking sucks. Thought he'd take a 4 year 4 million deal.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I think Hymans has shown more wear and tear on his body than Muzzin did at this point. Muzzin had the injury in the Jackets series but it was the type that could have happened to anyone rather than specifically the result of sustained milage.

I would disagree, respectfully. I don't know how you gauge "mileage", but Muzzin must be fairly high himself. Also being a D-man he's likely to be under more duress anyway.

 

[The Masters]

Babcock loves him. Steady on the rudder

 

[ottomaddox]

Thanks Marner!

Lol

 

[Mess]

Yes...but even if we weren't in cap hell, is Hyman really worth what he's likely to get in the open market?

I think not.

When he is a nice addition to team with Cup aspirations that team will think so, because he plays a style that transfers nicely to playoff style hockey.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Mirtle: This appears to be the end for Zach Hyman as a Maple Leaf - The Athletic

It felt like, for a long while, there was too much mutual respect and admiration for the two sides not to work something out.

Maybe he would have to take a hometown discount, shaving a few million off the overall package? Maybe Toronto would have to get creative with the deal, adding an extra year to bring down the cap hit?

Whatever the path, it felt like there was a way to get something done.

Unrestricted free agency opens six weeks from today across the NHL. There remains time for the above to be true and for the two sides to meet and work something out. But the more I’ve talked to people around the team in the weeks since the Leafs’ season ended in ugly fashion, the less that feels like where we’re headed.

In fact, it feels downright unlikely anything is going to get done.

Multiple sources said they didn’t believe any talks of substance had happened, going back months. No progress was made on extension talk at any point, really, going back to when Hyman first became eligible for a new deal last year.

All that happened in that time frame was he put up his best season in the NHL, scoring at a prorated 29-goal, 63-point pace during the regular season. And his value on the open market continued to climb.

Other teams and agents around the league believe Hyman can now command close to $6 million a season on a long-term deal, an unthinkable sum only a year or two ago.

Josh Anderson’s mammoth seven-year, $38.5 million deal signed with the Canadiens last October often comes up as a comparable.

Anderson is two years younger than Hyman, but he’s only produced 82 goals and 139 points in the NHL over 319 games. Hyman, a late bloomer who spent four years in college, has 86 goals and 185 points in 345 career games.

A $6 million cap hit might sound outrageous to some Leafs fans, who have watched as Hyman has gone from a Marlies checker to a bonafide NHL first-liner over the last six seasons. But, statistically speaking, Hyman falls in the same category as veteran UFA wingers like Nick Foligno, Ryan Callahan, Cam Atkinson and, yes, David Clarkson who all signed for around 8 percent of the salary cap as UFAs over the last eight years.

Even in a pandemic-induced flat cap world, that’s $6.5 million a season.

There’s no plausible way for the Leafs to make anything close to that number work. And while Hyman’s camp and the Leafs have both declined comment, I don’t believe a hometown discount here would be extreme.

Perhaps a few million on the total, to account for the endorsements Hyman can get in Toronto and the ability to stay close to home.

But if the estimated range of what he’ll get is between $30 million and $35 million, even shaving off a few million and adding an extra year isn’t going to get the Leafs to a very comfortable number on the cap hit. Maybe $4.5 million.

Maybe.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I can't imagine Hyman would want to go from city sweetheart that can do no wrong to Clarkson level whipping boy overnight just for an extra couple mil when his family is loaded. 5x5 or more seems like a bad deal for both sides in Toronto, at least if he chases money somewhere else he can still fall back on his goodwill here for a front office job when his knees go in 2 or 3 years.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I can't imagine Hyman would want to go from city sweetheart that can do no wrong to Clarkson level whipping boy overnight just for an extra couple mil when his family is loaded. 5x5 or more seems like a bad deal for both sides in Toronto, at least if he chases money somewhere else he can still fall back on his goodwill here for a front office job when his knees go in 2 or 3 years.

He won't become the whipping boy, I think most people understand he can get a nice contract for himself.

 

[Rielly4]

I think he still has good hockey left in him. If we could get him at a decent price I wouldnt mind re-signing but a long term commitment is tough. I believe he will get at least 5.5 on open market and the Leafs wont give him that. All the talk about him being rich and taking a hometown discount was always wishful thinking.

We are going to have to add two top 6 LWers this off season when he walks. We cant pencil in Galchenyuk or Robertson into the top 6. We could also add a RWer and move Willy to the left side.

 

[Martin Skoula]

He won't become the whipping boy, I think most people understand he can get a nice contract for himself.

I have no ill will towards him if he wants to get paid somewhere else, obviously that's something he's earned. If he signs the 6+ long-term deal talked about in the article and his game drops down to what he was outside the last 2 years he's going to be public enemy #2 behind Marner.

 

[The Iceman]

Dubas' overpayments are killing this team...the flat cap definitely doesn't help...Matthews $1 to $1.5 million overpaid...Marner $1 to $2 million overpaid, Nylander $500K overpaid...even Muzzin is several hundred thousand overpaid...that's $2 million of cap space right there...just keep squeezing guys out like Kapanen, Johnsson (though I think Dubas held onto him too long and should have traded him when his value was high), and now Hyman...is Rielly the next to be squeezed out?

Flat cap does actually help. Way more $750K/lower priced players available to fill out the bottom of the roster.

 

[Optimist]

I'm gonna say that he signs with the Leafs for a moderate discount. Two reasons. Zach bleeds blue and white. And his family is very wealthy.

 

[ottomaddox]

Ottomaddox: The end is near for Dubas in Toronto.

 

[Mess]

How often do Hyman like players age well?

We could have 50M in cap space and we still shouldn’t sign him.

So Leafs are overpaying players that age well, because they play small and soft and stick check rather then hip check, which extends their playing careers.

However a guy that lays all on the line day in and day out, gets punished financially, because he is his own worst enemy because giving 100% takes a bigger toll on a players body and longevity.

I think you just pinpointed, one of the major flaws that is wrong with the Leafs particularly come playoff time.

They don't pay for compete that rewards effort, they pay for skill that doesn't compete, because its better for self preservation and longevity, and being an easy out in round #1 really saves a lot of wear and tear on a body in comparison to all those players in the playoffs that at taking a beating advancing and sacrificing in order to win the Cup.

I'm not worried for Zach as players of his ilk are in high demand, and sought after, and he will have plenty of options to get paid for his true value to a team, once outside the country country club lifestyle of his current team. I'm just going to miss him because I hate losing, and I know will bests skill particularly come playoff time.

 

[Trapper]

If you have a ton of picks and keep feeding the team with young cheap talent (not plugs) his model works. The trouble now, our prospects after this last wave of Roberts, Sandin and Lil, looks thin and only getting worse. He traded too many picks to win now, so we’re left with no win now and not much coming.

And the jury is still out on the 3 guys you mentioned. As much as everyone wants to hype them, I need to see them in support roles for a full season. Will they succeed, stumble, get hurt? Unknown. They are still unknown commodities. The guys we lost, Kadri,Kap,Brown were known commodities.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

It seems clear we knew we were getting damaged goods, that trade deserves more scorn. What a farce, a first for a lemon.

Quite literally the worst trade of Dubas’ tenure. Say what you will about the Kadri deal at least Kerfoot was serviceable for multiple years and brought it this postseason. The biggest impact Foligno had was making everyone nostalgic for a team that’s nearly 30 years old at this point.

 

[socko]

Just the next step in firing Shanahan and Dubas. It should have happened after this season at the very latest. But the Leafs are always a day late.... but never a dollar short.

 

[Brown Dog]

Dubas always said, when he handed out those contracts to the big 4, that they'd have to get creative with the edges of the roster. But these cuts are starting to hit pretty deep. First Connor Brown, then Kapanen and Johnsson, now Hyman. And maybe Rielly next?

And that's with no real albatross (ie, cap dump) contracts...Freddy coming off the books and a dirt cheap replacement in place...and an army of low cost veterans filling out the roster.

...and then you consider that we've got nothing for all our "own rentals" (Komarov, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner, Barrie, now Hyman) to keep a flow of talent coming.

...and that we traded more assets to maintain cap flexibility (Marleau) and add resources for failed playoff runs (Foligno, etc.).

...and then the flat cap, just to stick an extra nail in the coffin!

...But let's not forget the coup to gras! Our core, for whom we've made all these sacrifices, turns out to be a bunch of underachieving choke artists! And just as we realize we need to upgrade the supporting cast, it becomes as clear as ever that we can't even afford the middle class players we already have.

Dang.

 

[Trapper]

Dubas always said, when he handed out those contracts to the big 4, that they'd have to get creative with the edges of the roster. But these cuts are starting to hit pretty deep. First Connor Brown, then Kapanen and Johnsson, now Hyman. And maybe Rielly next?

And that's with no real albatross (ie, cap dump) contracts...Freddy coming off the books and a dirt cheap replacement in place...and an army of low cost veterans filling out the roster.

...and then you consider that we've got nothing for all our "own rentals" (Komarov, Bozak, JVR, Gardiner, Barrie, now Hyman) to keep a flow of talent coming.

...and that we traded more assets to maintain cap flexibility (Marleau) and add resources for failed playoff runs (Foligno, etc.).

...and then the flat cap, just to stick an extra nail in the coffin!

...But let's not forget the coup to gras! Our core, for whom we've made all these sacrifices, turns out to be a bunch of underachieving choke artists! And just as we realize we need to upgrade the supporting cast, it becomes as clear as ever that we can't even afford the middle class players we already have.

Dang.

This should be the memo coming off the fax at MLSE.

 

[Jojalu]

When he is a nice addition to team with Cup aspirations that team will think so, because he plays a style that transfers nicely to playoff style hockey.

I guess, but what has he ever done in the playoffs playing top minutes?

No doubt Hyman works his ass off, but in t playoff series playing with AM, MM, JT AND WN he has never scored more than 1 goal.

The Leafs PK has been terrible twice, and it's not like he goes out and crushes everyone.

Where are all the people that said Hyman was a "True Leaf" and take a hometown discount?

The Leafs need more guys that work like Hyman, but not for 5 or 6 million

 

[notbias]

So Leafs are overpaying players that age well, because they play small and soft and stick check rather then hip check, which extends their playing careers.

However a guy that lays all on the line day in and day out, gets punished financially, because he is his own worst enemy because giving 100% takes a bigger toll on a players body and longevity.

I think you just pinpointed, one of the major flaws that is wrong with the Leafs particularly come playoff time.

They don't pay for compete that rewards effort, they pay for skill that doesn't compete, because its better for self preservation and longevity, and being an easy out in round #1 really saves a lot of wear and tear on a body in comparison to all those players in the playoffs that at taking a beating advancing and sacrificing in order to win the Cup.

I'm not worried for Zach as players of his ilk are in high demand, and sought after, and he will have plenty of options to get paid for his true value to a team, once outside the country country club lifestyle of his current team. I'm just going to miss him because I hate losing, and I know will bests skill.

How do you define competing?

Let's use Nylander, Marner, Matthews, and Hyman as the measuring stick of some categories people like to use for competing.

Hits - Matthews, Hyman, Marner, Nylander
Blocked shots - Matthews, Marner, Hyman, Nylander
Takeaways - Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Hyman

We could go by points?
Nylander, Matthews, Marner, Hyman.

What else can we look at for compete levels?