Mirtle: End is near for Hyman in Toronto

[Dreakmur]

if the Leafs were 18 million over the cap, maybe they would still be playing too, and maybe if Marner signed his contract the same YEAR as Kuch, he'd be making less than Kuch, and maybe if i pooped Unicorns the world would be a better place

They did pay 98 million in salary this year.

 

[mydnyte]

They’ve used LTIR loophole before.. the problem is, while Tampa used good players on the roster and stashed Kucherov, the Leafs did it with Nathan Horton and David Clarkson.

And I don’t care. They’re competing with Tampa. They cannot pay inferior players more money... if Mitch wanted that money he should have been traded as an RFA.

have you looked at what Tampa is actually paying some of their guys ...they were lucky to sign Stamkos and Kuch to 'reasonable' contracts, even though they were high when they signed, but, not league leading.
they are not a good example of thrifty signings, seriously, take a look, they are going to have a nightmarish off season trying to unload some of their guys.

 

[supermann_98]

The Marner's contract continues to pile up casualties as assets go out the door to be able to keep it and remain cap compliant.

This stupid statement will cost him his job eventually, unless his ego allows his philosophy to change and deflect blame onto Covid, and trade the playoff choker Manure

 

[sparxx87]

have you looked at what Tampa is actually paying some of their guys ...they were lucky to sign Stamkos and Kuch to 'reasonable' contracts, even though they were high when they signed, but, not league leading.
they are not a good example of thrifty signings, seriously, take a look, they are going to have a nightmarish off season trying to unload some of their guys.

Most good teams have cap problems. They’re the defending champs and back in the conference finals (at least) ... of course they’ll have tough decisions.

...but the Leafs have it even worse and still haven’t seen the second round.

Cap problems at the top > cap problems in the middle

 

[Mess]

Leafs’ bid to re-sign Hyman will require creativity as major payday awaits

Kyle Dubas talked about the impact of Zach Hyman and Jason Spezza on the Maple Leafs, and the potential for their return to the team.

What makes Hyman’s impending free agency so unique is that he will either be made a priority by the Leafs before July 28 or by someone else should he land on the open market. A major payday awaits.

Hyman’s next contract will almost certainly be worth more than $5-million per season and come with term, which is why it’s possible the hometown kid has already played his final game for the Leafs. There certainly seemed to be a hint of resignation in his voice when he briefly touched on the subject in the aftermath of the team’s abrupt playoff elimination this week, saying: “I don’t know what the future holds.”

With the Leafs seemingly unwilling to break up their Big Four — Brendan Shanahan and Kyle Dubas were unequivocal about their plans to keep all $40-million worth of Matthews, John Tavares, Mitch Marner and Nylander moving forward — they are challenged to have any other forwards inhabiting the middle class, let alone the upper-middle class where Hyman’s next deal is likely to fall.

This decision is about the heart as well as the mind. “There’s no bones about the fact that we would be very interested in having him back,” said Dubas. “I think it has to work out fair for both sides. Zach’s going to want to be treated fairly, we’re going to have to figure out something that works in the short and long term and that will be up to [Leafs assistant GM] Brandon Pridham and [agent] Todd Reynolds to sort that out.”

“I don’t think I need to get into what Zach Hyman means to the club,” said Dubas. “He’s been an excellent player since he arrived here in 2015 and equally as impressive a person, if not more. “He comes every day, puts it on the line for the team and we feel very fortunate to have him.”.

Full story: Leafs' bid to re-sign Hyman will require creativity as major payday awaits - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Trapper]

View attachment 447317

This stupid statement will cost him his job eventually, unless his ego allows his philosophy to change and deflect blame onto Covid, and trade the playoff choker Manure

Time to change the shirt

 

[shortfuze]

It’s not

Whatever excuse you want to put on it, the reality is that they have a much better player for less money on their salary cap. That’s an advantage. Add in the best defenseman in the league for less than 8, and an elite two-way centre who gets Selke votes on a bridge less than 7.

Real hard to compete. Your excuses mean nothing when it’s time to play the games. That’s what they have, find a way to beat it.

it’s fine if you want to rip on them cause of their compete level but the fact that each Tampa player makes less is because of the taxes. There is no excuse to it, it’s fact. Sounds like you are still upset and rightfully so and want to just bitch at everyone that defends anything Toronto. Tampa saves on the tax issues. Toronto pays players out in bonuses.

 

[mydnyte]

Most good teams have cap problems. They’re the defending champs and back in the conference finals (at least) ... of course they’ll have tough decisions.

...but the Leafs have it even worse and still haven’t seen the second round.

Cap problems at the top > cap problems in the middle

every team in the league save 4 have Cap Problems... at least we have an elite top end, and can fill in roster spots on the cheap, we do not need to unload anyone with a bad contract (like the Marleau, and TB needs to move Johnson with 3 years left at 5, with limited options).
They are -5million (over the cap) and need to sign at least 4-5 players including a reliable b/u goalie

We do not have Cap Dump players like most other teams do.
Our worst contract is arguably Kerfoot, and pre-covid his contract was considered a bargain, and still should be, as he is very easy to move if need be. I'd argue our worst contract is Muzzin, but, he's likely easy to move also (very good reputation still)

We are in a much better position Cap wise that the majority of teams in the league as strange as it may seem.

 

[WTFMAN99]

every team in the league save 4 have Cap Problems... at least we have an elite top end, and can fill in roster spots on the cheap, we do not need to unload anyone with a bad contract (like the Marleau, and TB needs to move Johnson with 3 years left at 5, with limited options).
They are -5million (over the cap) and need to sign at least 4-5 players including a reliable b/u goalie

We do not have Cap Dump players like most other teams do.
Our worst contract is arguably Kerfoot, and pre-covid his contract was considered a bargain, and still should be, as he is very easy to move if need be. I'd argue our worst contract is Muzzin, but, he's likely easy to move also (very good reputation still)

We are in a much better position Cap wise that the majority of teams in the league as strange as it may seem.

After July 1st, Kerfoot averages 1.6-1.8M in salary, someone might find that really appealing.

 

[sparxx87]

It’s not
it’s fine if you want to rip on them cause of their compete level but the fact that each Tampa player makes less is because of the taxes. There is no excuse to it, it’s fact. Sounds like you are still upset and rightfully so and want to just bitch at everyone that defends anything Toronto. Tampa saves on the tax issues. Toronto pays players out in bonuses.

I’m not upset and I’m not trying to bitch. I’m talking hockey with a few fans who are still stubborn enough to believe they can compete with this salary structure.

Dubas isn’t from Toronto. He’s a stick boy whose privilege allowed him to reach a position he was never qualified or deserving of... and now, he’s completely ****ed them.

Stop defending these decisions and tell me how they compete with a team who gets better players for less money?

 

[sparxx87]

every team in the league save 4 have Cap Problems... at least we have an elite top end, and can fill in roster spots on the cheap, we do not need to unload anyone with a bad contract (like the Marleau, and TB needs to move Johnson with 3 years left at 5, with limited options).
They are -5million (over the cap) and need to sign at least 4-5 players including a reliable b/u goalie

We do not have Cap Dump players like most other teams do.
Our worst contract is arguably Kerfoot, and pre-covid his contract was considered a bargain, and still should be, as he is very easy to move if need be. I'd argue our worst contract is Muzzin, but, he's likely easy to move also (very good reputation still)

We are in a much better position Cap wise that the majority of teams in the league as strange as it may seem.

That’s your opinion. Maxed out cap, middle of the road with no #1 draft pick and only 6 total over 2 years to go with a pretty weak prospect pool.

More holes than roles filled for next year including multiple top 9 FWDs, a coach, and a goalie.

I’m not sure they’re a playoff team next year.


Hey, do you want to buy a bridge?

 

[Superstar]

It’s not
it’s fine if you want to rip on them cause of their compete level but the fact that each Tampa player makes less is because of the taxes. There is no excuse to it, it’s fact. Sounds like you are still upset and rightfully so and want to just bitch at everyone that defends anything Toronto. Tampa saves on the tax issues. Toronto pays players out in bonuses.

Greed is greed. Why did Bobrovsky asked for $10 million from Florida? Taxes? Brayden Point took a discount at $6.75 million per on a bridge deal so he could fit himself into their team to make some runs for a championship...he could have easily sat out and demanded Kucherov term and money...there aren't tax break excuses that Marner could make in demanding $9 million per on a bridge deal from the Leafs.

 

[mydnyte]

I’m not upset and I’m not trying to bitch. I’m talking hockey with a few fans who are still stubborn enough to believe they can compete with this salary structure.

Dubas isn’t from Toronto. He’s a stick boy whose privilege allowed him to reach a position he was never qualified or deserving of... and now, he’s completely ****ed them.

Stop defending these decisions and tell me how they compete with a team who gets better players for less money?

the only teams that can get 'better' deals are the ones that play in Tax free, or tax reduced cities Florida/TB etc ...if Cap Hit included taxes, then you would see vast differences across the league.
a players value or worth when they sign the contract has a lot to do with it, like MacKinnon for example, he was coming off 3 mediocre seasons when he signed his deal. the day Draisaitl signed, 90% of the board screamed overpay ...do you think they will be signing 'bargain' contracts on their next deals?
Barkov is a steal right now because he signed younger and unproven, but, his next deal will be huge, though, Florida because of the taxes can offer him less and he still takes home more than if another team offered him 2 mil more per season.

here is a link to a cool calculator Tax Calculator | Gavin Group Kuch for example pays under 3.5 mil in taxes on his 9.5 in Toronto he pays over 5 mil, so Toronto's offer would have to be 1.5 million higher for the player to get the same salary, is that system fair in a 'flat cap' league, NO, is that the reality, YES.
dont bother about endorsements or tax loopholes, because they exist in both places, the bottom $$ is all we are comparing, because that directly affects the cap hit without the 'creative accounting' for the player.

 

[sparxx87]

the only teams that can get 'better' deals are the ones that play in Tax free, or tax reduced cities Florida/TB etc ...if Cap Hit included taxes, then you would see vast differences across the league.
a players value or worth when they sign the contract has a lot to do with it, like MacKinnon for example, he was coming off 3 mediocre seasons when he signed his deal. the day Draisaitl signed, 90% of the board screamed overpay ...do you think they will be signing 'bargain' contracts on their next deals?
Barkov is a steal right now because he signed younger and unproven, but, his next deal will be huge, though, Florida because of the taxes can offer him less and he still takes home more than if another team offered him 2 mil more per season.

here is a link to a cool calculator Tax Calculator | Gavin Group Kuch for example pays under 3.5 mil in taxes on his 9.5 in Toronto he pays over 5 mil, so Toronto's offer would have to be 1.5 million higher for the player to get the same salary, is that system fair in a 'flat cap' league, NO, is that the reality, YES.
dont bother about endorsements or tax loopholes, because they exist in both places, the bottom $$ is all we are comparing, because that directly affects the cap hit without the 'creative accounting' for the player.

That’s another excuse. Whether you want to say it’s the taxes or astute management, the lower cap numbers are reality.

What is the solution for a team in Toronto, Ontario?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Brodie and Muzzin are signed to reasonable contracts. Matthews and Marner created a cap crunch, by being overpaid $2-3M collectively.

There’s a lot of clubs out there with a lot more than 2-3m in “wasted space” with guys who don’t even make the roster.
would I like it if marner signed the rantanen deal? Yes, of course, but I’d still rather be in the position of having ELITE talent locked in to shape the team around with zero dead weight vs. having to build a complete line up with an okposo Ladd baertschi Eriksson etc etc etc to weigh down the cap

 

[mydnyte]

That’s your opinion. Maxed out cap, middle of the road with no #1 draft pick and only 6 total over 2 years to go with a pretty weak prospect pool.

More holes than roles filled for next year including multiple top 9 FWDs, a coach, and a goalie.

I’m not sure they’re a playoff team next year.


Hey, do you want to buy a bridge?

Montreal only has 7 forwards signed for next year, 2 RFA's to sign, their #1 C is a UFA with 2 d-men at min to sign and all that for $12 million with Danault already turning down a 5mil offer, so he'll eat 1/2 that space on his own to resign. ...I'm sure you would say they are in far better shape than us.
oh, and the following year (still on the flat cap) they'll need to resign Suzuki, Evans, Romanov, and Chariot with Zero expiring contracts of note (Kulak 1.85 being the only real expiring contract)
But, they are awesome right, and we are doing everything wrong?

 

[Atomos2]

It’s not Marners fault though.

Nothing ever is is it?

 

[mydnyte]

That’s another excuse. Whether you want to say it’s the taxes or astute management, the lower cap numbers are reality.

What is the solution for a team in Toronto, Ontario?

thats not an excuse, thats a reality ...and no decent team has cap space right now, even teams that missed the playoffs are screwed cap wise.
look up at my post about Montreal, if you want to talk about Cap screwed

 

[shortfuze]

I’m not upset and I’m not trying to bitch. I’m talking hockey with a few fans who are still stubborn enough to believe they can compete with this salary structure.

Dubas isn’t from Toronto. He’s a stick boy whose privilege allowed him to reach a position he was never qualified or deserving of... and now, he’s completely ****ed them.

Stop defending these decisions and tell me how they compete with a team who gets better players for less money?

Come down from your pedestal and stop telling people how they should think. Just cause you think and say it doesn’t make your opinions anymore right.

well let’s see. Tampa won the championship last year with help from tax exemptions. How about sitting out one of their top players all year this year. You’re ignoring the fact that the taxes helped them. Dubas and the leafs had a plan with signing bonuses that would help them if they had to but COVID happened a the cap flatlined.

I understand why people are upset but use a little common sense.

 

[Atomos2]

Marner's contract is one of the main reasons Leafs can't afford to re-sign Hyman even if they wanted to, because they don't have the available cap space.



Which makes sense because you had to clear cap room first, before you could sign another player using that new cap space created. So Marleau and Leafs 1st had to go.

If the Leafs cleared out Marner's cap hit first they would have plenty of room for re-sign Hyman, however instead because Marner is staying that means Hyman must go.

The Marner contract continues to pile up casualties as assets go out the door to be able to keep it and remain cap compliant.

Exactly! Great post Mess

 

[Nylanderthal]

Marner's contract is one of the main reasons Leafs can't afford to re-sign Hyman even if they wanted to, because they don't have the available cap space.



Which makes sense because you had to clear cap room first, before you could sign another player using that new cap space created. So Marleau and Leafs 1st had to go.

If the Leafs cleared out Marner's cap hit first they would have plenty of room for re-sign Hyman, however instead because Marner is staying that means Hyman must go.

The Marner contract continues to pile up casualties as assets go out the door to be able to keep it and remain cap compliant.

Say marner took the rumoured $10m x7 deal that was apparently on the table all off-season. Is 893k really the difference in keeping Hyman? Surely you can come up with that by pinching off of whoever replaces Simmonds 1.5 and maybe shaving a few hundred grand off your earmarked 1b goalie budget.

 

[sparxx87]

thats not an excuse, thats a reality ...and no decent team has cap space right now, even teams that missed the playoffs are screwed cap wise.
look up at my post about Montreal, if you want to talk about Cap screwed

Yes, we agree it’s reality, you say taxes, I say a bit of that mixed with some astute management.

I asked you how the Leafs compete with that.

And why are you setting the bar with middle of the pack teams? Aren’t they trying to be the best?

 

[forecheck]

Come down from your pedestal and stop telling people how they should think. Just cause you think and say it doesn’t make your opinions anymore right.

well let’s see. Tampa won the championship last year with help from tax exemptions. How about sitting out one of their top players all year this year. You’re ignoring the fact that the taxes helped them. Dubas and the leafs had a plan with signing bonuses that would help them if they had to but COVID happened a the cap flatlined.

I understand why people are upset but use a little common sense.

Really ??

 

[shortfuze]

Greed is greed. Why did Bobrovsky asked for $10 million from Florida? Taxes? Brayden Point took a discount at $6.75 million per on a bridge deal so he could fit himself into their team to make some runs for a championship...he could have easily sat out and demanded Kucherov term and money...there aren't tax break excuses that Marner could make in demanding $9 million per on a bridge deal from the Leafs.

I’m sure there are many reasons why point took a bridge deal but I am most certain it wasn’t just because he wanted to play for a contender. His family, where he lives and taxes as well. You’ll have to ask him that. As for Bobrovsky. Florida was a middle of the pact team. He asked for it and got it. I would hate to think what you would do if you asked for a raise. “The boss offers you this much and you’re like, nah that’s to much. Give me less”.

 

[shaner82]

Good for him.

He'll be able to go to an actual contender now...

The Habs got outplayed badly by us and we didn't have Tavares. The Habs are currently tied in the series with the Stanley Cup favorite. I would say we are absolutely a contender. If we had JT we likely beat the Habs. We would have definitely beat the Jets. After that, who knows.

But the Leafs are a contender