Minnesota Wild General Discussion XIX

Status
Not open for further replies.

DeagleJenkins

Registered User
Jul 17, 2018
5,320
1,331
Minnesota
No chance you could sell Kaprizov on a plan like that. May as well trade him now.

Again, even without Kaprizov and/or Zucarello, this team has too much talent to finish in the bottom 5 of the standings unless half the roster spends a good portion of next season on LTIR. This is all fantasy speculation. Besides, we all know that Guerin would never entertain such a plan.
where? please show me the talent that can keep us out of the bottom 5 without kap and zucc. Its not fantasy, it is very real that we fall drastically to the bottom of the league. as others have said, our goalies may have gotten worse and could completely poop the bed. Rossi might come up and not be ready, all those career years could of been a one and done and everyone regresses. I dont see the too much talent you speak of with Fiala and Kap not on this team.
 

MuckOG

Registered User
May 18, 2012
15,855
5,839
where? please show me the talent that can keep us out of the bottom 5 without kap and zucc. Its not fantasy, it is very real that we fall drastically to the bottom of the league. as others have said, our goalies may have gotten worse and could completely poop the bed. Rossi might come up and not be ready, all those career years could of been a one and done and everyone regresses. I dont see the too much talent you speak of with Fiala and Kap not on this team.

Its all hypothetical anyway. Both Kaprizov and Zuccarello will be here and playing.
 

Bazeek

Registered Lurker
Sponsor
Jul 26, 2011
17,928
11,285
Exiled in Madison
I don't think a lot of fans are asking to trade Greenway or Foligno, but you can't look at the roster and not think there are some big questions about how the team is going to perform this year, especially at goaltending, defense and secondary scoring.
I think it's more a question of priorities and not letting next season dictate roster decisions.

That's why, at least in my mind, the worst option with Dumba would be to just let him walk next summer. Yes, we could technically consider him an "own rental", but renting players seems like a really poor choice given the circumstances. On the other hand, you could make arguments for trading or extending him that have more to do with the long term success of the team.

Same goes for players like Zuccarello, Foligno and Spurgeon. Those guys all have years on their deals though, so decisions can wait until we have more clarity on the prospect pool.

Similarly, I don't think the team's draft position should be driving these decisions either.
 

DeagleJenkins

Registered User
Jul 17, 2018
5,320
1,331
Minnesota
You're making one very large assumption here, and that's that the Wild could return to winning after just one year. More likely it would take a handful of years. Very few teams ever go from top 5 in the league one season, to bottom 5 the next, back to at least a playoff team the season after that. In fact, has that ever happened? I can't think of or find an instance of it. It's a beautiful dream, but I think it's just a dream.
I dont have the information handy to know if a team has done that or not, i assume not super easy to do though. The idea of being bad this year has a lot to do with Kap possibly not being here so yes if he is gone this year and we are bad and then he magically comes back i could see us easily being 1 bad year and right back up to playoffs.
 

Webster

Zucc's buddy
Sponsor
Nov 7, 2017
5,296
2,038
With Fiala gone. Where is the secondary scoring coming from? Boldy hopefully does as a lot of us expect but who else?
Patience, next year's roster isn't complete yet. Guerin said he's watching the market, and could sign a top 6 forward. xxxx-Rossi-Boldy.
 

57special

Posting the right way since 2012.
Sep 5, 2012
49,883
21,712
MN
I think it's more a question of priorities and not letting next season dictate roster decisions.

That's why, at least in my mind, the worst option with Dumba would be to just let him walk next summer. Yes, we could technically consider him an "own rental", but renting players seems like a really poor choice given the circumstances. On the other hand, you could make arguments for trading or extending him that have more to do with the long term success of the team.

Same goes for players like Zuccarello, Foligno and Spurgeon. Those guys all have years on their deals though, so decisions can wait until we have more clarity on the prospect pool.

Similarly, I don't think the team's draft position should be driving these decisions either.
Yet you see teams do it again and again. Just goes to show that ownership has different priorities... playoff revenue matters to them, as does icing a competitive team in order to sell ST's.

Dumba also needs to have a bounce back year to get anything much back at the TDL. He might fetch a late 1st if he is on pace for 30+ points, is healthy, and BG retains(not a big deal, IMO), opening up the market to Cup contenders. If he gets back to a 50 point pace, he could fetch a bit more.

My feeling is that we are going to be a good team this year who is in the playoffs, and that BG will not consider any move that will weaken the team going into the playoffs. I can also see BG re-upping him to a lesser, long term contract(say 6 x 5.25M), together with the dreaded NMC. A lot will depend on how, and how much, he plays this year.
 

DeagleJenkins

Registered User
Jul 17, 2018
5,320
1,331
Minnesota
Patience, next year's roster isn't complete yet. Guerin said he's watching the market, and could sign a top 6 forward. xxxx-Rossi-Boldy.
Rossi. Maybe Beckman will get a shot and run with it.
He said we currently have too much talent to be bottom 5 with Fiala, Kap and Zucc out. I dont see it, Rossi and Beckman are potential but still unproven so thats hoping for it. Boldy should as we expect produce but as we saw in the playoffs, he could get targeted and shutdown until he learns to fight through it.
 

Digitalbooya

By order of the Peaky Blinders
Sponsor
Jul 10, 2010
28,007
7,953
Wisconsin
He said we currently have too much talent to be bottom 5 with Fiala, Kap and Zucc out. I dont see it, Rossi and Beckman are potential but still unproven so thats hoping for it. Boldy should as we expect produce but as we saw in the playoffs, he could get targeted and shutdown until he learns to fight through it.
Depth at defense + GREEF = decent amount of wins
 
  • Like
Reactions: 57special

Bazeek

Registered Lurker
Sponsor
Jul 26, 2011
17,928
11,285
Exiled in Madison
Yet you see teams do it again and again. Just goes to show that ownership has different priorities... playoff revenue matters to them, as does icing a competitive team in order to sell ST's.

Dumba also needs to have a bounce back year to get anything much back at the TDL. He might fetch a late 1st if he is on pace for 30+ points, is healthy, and BG retains(not a big deal, IMO), opening up the market to Cup contenders. If he gets back to a 50 point pace, he could fetch a bit more.

My feeling is that we are going to be a good team this year who is in the playoffs, and that BG will not consider any move that will weaken the team going into the playoffs. I can also see BG re-upping him to a lesser, long term contract(say 6 x 5.25M), together with the dreaded NMC. A lot will depend on how, and how much, he plays this year.
I do think it's a distinct possibility and if it wasn't for the buyout hits I'd be less against it. Under the circumstances though... hard to justify it, even if the team's in a playoff spot at the deadline.

And they've done it once before with Zucker - just need to take back the 2023 equivalent of Galchenyuk as a fig leaf to pretend that they're still trying to do something.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,632
1,710
Goligoski torpedoed, Merrill and Kulikov were just okay. Spurgeon and Dumba have been injury prone - leaving really Middleton and Brodin as guys you can count on. Defense was actually 16th for GA. Hoping for O'Rourke or Hunt to develop quicker.

Then again, the Wild did get rid of Benn so maybe addition through subtraction?
 

57special

Posting the right way since 2012.
Sep 5, 2012
49,883
21,712
MN
He said we currently have too much talent to be bottom 5 with Fiala, Kap and Zucc out. I dont see it, Rossi and Beckman are potential but still unproven so thats hoping for it. Boldy should as we expect produce but as we saw in the playoffs, he could get targeted and shutdown until he learns to fight through it.
two different talent levels. Rossi, for all that he needs to work on a few things, is a realistic option to pencil into the middle six this year, and possibly the top 6 going forward. Beckman has a lot of work to do. It looks like he has continued to grow, but he is lacking bulk, strength, and Rossi's abundant skillset. To me, he is a long shot to be on the team this year, and maybe even next year.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,632
1,710
The pessimists always dominate the off season talk here, this went from the reality of Fiala being gone to an illusion of the top 3 scorers all being gone and not replaced for a whole season to make us a bottom 5 team, why even bother with that thought experiment?
I think a lot of fans are at least concerned with Kaprizov's VISA situation and the fact that the goaltending is at least questionable now. A lot of goaltenders pretty much drop off around where Fleury is at. Fleury hasn't gotten worse yet - but that's a huge yet. I also think there isn't a lot of excitement because there hasn't been a lot of changes - which on one hand isn't bad, but on the other hand isn't good. There are some holes still in the roster and they created a bigger one with a lot of questions moving forward. I don't see it being pessimistic, but cautionary about thinking last season was the norm.
 

57special

Posting the right way since 2012.
Sep 5, 2012
49,883
21,712
MN
I do think it's a distinct possibility and if it wasn't for the buyout hits I'd be less against it. Under the circumstances though... hard to justify it, even if the team's in a playoff spot at the deadline.

And they've done it once before with Zucker - just need to take back the 2023 equivalent of Galchenyuk as a fig leaf to pretend that they're still trying to do something.
Awesome turn of phrase.
 

Obvious Fabertism

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Apr 1, 2009
6,670
4,025
MN
I think a lot of fans are at least concerned with Kaprizov's VISA situation and the fact that the goaltending is at least questionable now. A lot of goaltenders pretty much drop off around where Fleury is at. Fleury hasn't gotten worse yet - but that's a huge yet. I also think there isn't a lot of excitement because there hasn't been a lot of changes - which on one hand isn't bad, but on the other hand isn't good. There are some holes still in the roster and they created a bigger one with a lot of questions moving forward. I don't see it being pessimistic, but cautionary about thinking last season was the norm.
It was the best season in franchise history, it’s obviously not the norm, but it would take 20 extra straight up losses to drop us down to bottom 5, Fiala’s super inflated WAR was 3 last year. If you consider Rossi replacement level, you still need to find massive drops all across the lineup to get there. Goaltending was the biggest underperformer last year already, it can get worse definitely, but it’s already replacement level so any acquisition at least has potential for improvement. We already struggled with injuries and Covid last year, it would take an exponential amount more in the up coming season to see a drop due to that.
 

DeagleJenkins

Registered User
Jul 17, 2018
5,320
1,331
Minnesota
Depth at defense + GREEF = decent amount of wins
not if you are not replacing the missing offense.
two different talent levels. Rossi, for all that he needs to work on a few things, is a realistic option to pencil into the middle six this year, and possibly the top 6 going forward. Beckman has a lot of work to do. It looks like he has continued to grow, but he is lacking bulk, strength, and Rossi's abundant skillset. To me, he is a long shot to be on the team this year, and maybe even next year.
i agree two different skill sets. I am optimistic Rossi can produce 40ish this year IF he makes the team right out of camp and sticks. Beckman I dont see as a 4th liner so until Greenway and/or Foligno are gone i dont see him having a spot on the big club.
The pessimists always dominate the off season talk here, this went from the reality of Fiala being gone to an illusion of the top 3 scorers all being gone and not replaced for a whole season to make us a bottom 5 team, why even bother with that thought experiment?
its a discussion board, we discuss the possible outcomes. Until Kap is actually in USA ill have reasons to wonder what this team will do without him on it.
 

Minnewildsota

He who laughs last thinks slowest
Jun 7, 2010
8,881
3,091
I think a lot of fans are at least concerned with Kaprizov's VISA situation and the fact that the goaltending is at least questionable now. A lot of goaltenders pretty much drop off around where Fleury is at. Fleury hasn't gotten worse yet - but that's a huge yet. I also think there isn't a lot of excitement because there hasn't been a lot of changes - which on one hand isn't bad, but on the other hand isn't good. There are some holes still in the roster and they created a bigger one with a lot of questions moving forward. I don't see it being pessimistic, but cautionary about thinking last season was the norm.
Not even a little concerned

not if you are not replacing the missing offense.

i agree two different skill sets. I am optimistic Rossi can produce 40ish this year IF he makes the team right out of camp and sticks. Beckman I dont see as a 4th liner so until Greenway and/or Foligno are gone i dont see him having a spot on the big club.

its a discussion board, we discuss the possible outcomes. Until Kap is actually in USA ill have reasons to wonder what this team will do without him on it.
What if the whole team lands on IR?
What if they purchase a winning lotto ticket?
What if Rossi plays like a demon possessed?
What if something finally clicks for Brodin offensively and becomes the greatest defenseman to ever play the game?

We can play the what if game all day.
 

keppel146

Registered User
Jun 4, 2010
5,799
690
MinneSOta
This team has some serious question marks. Goaltending looks worse, defense very suspect, and our forward group looks worse. For all we know Fluery and Gust. could crap the bed--BUT they have proven us wrong before.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thestonedkoala

BagHead

Registered User
Dec 23, 2010
7,141
3,999
Minneapolis, MN
I dont have the information handy to know if a team has done that or not, i assume not super easy to do though. The idea of being bad this year has a lot to do with Kap possibly not being here so yes if he is gone this year and we are bad and then he magically comes back i could see us easily being 1 bad year and right back up to playoffs.
I don't want to say anything is outside the realm of possibility, but even without Kaprizov and Fiala, I don't think they end up bottom 5. But hey, crazy things happen, and if that happens organically, that's fine. Great even.
 

Dr Jan Itor

Registered User
Dec 10, 2009
46,745
21,523
MinneSNOWta
To hold our spot, or to not see a at least a semi-dramatic downturn, we probably need the following:

Boldy to be last year's Fiala, and Rossi to be last year's Boldy. Is it possible? Sure, but I'd bet on it being a year too early for both.

Dumba to rebound to what he was pre-injury. Is it possible? Sure, but he's had a few years to do it and hasn't yet, so...

Gustavsson to be as good or better than Talbot. Is it possible? Sure, but what is there in his numbers that would make you lean in that direction, aside from a 9 game stretch two years ago? This is actually the one that I would be the least surprised coming to fruition, since goalies are just weird.

And this is without seeing any notable slide from guys like Foligno, Hartman, Zuccarello, Spurgeon and Fleury AND this isn't taking into account Nashville getting better and Colorado and St. Louis probably (at the very least) staying the same.
 

Webster

Zucc's buddy
Sponsor
Nov 7, 2017
5,296
2,038
No need to worry about Kaprizov, he isn't even in Russia. Right now he's in Germany for rehab after surgery. The entry papers is just a formality, immigration has a lot to do these days. I believe both Kaprizov and Zuccarello will return to MIN around August 15th. At least that's what Zucc told the media.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad