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Minnesota Wild General Discussion XIX

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thestonedkoala said:
Wasn't he an assistant and they canned him?
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They promoted him, actually. To Assistant to the GM, then Assistant GM (Dwight Schrute vibes, here), and then to Director of Player Personnel. And then he left for Florida and an assistant coach job there. Pretty sure that was when Fenton forced him out.
 
Series won by each team since lockout…😐

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HobeyBroten said:
Indeed. My concern is how much hype we all have for our future, but we’ve been saying this since the lockout…and here are the results
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Yeah, except most of our series losses came to the #3 team on the list. Tough to win a series when your facing one of the best teams most of the time.
 
MuckOG said:
Is there a lesson here for those that advocate tanking as the preferred method of rebuilding?

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A team needs elite talent to win a cup, the methods of how you obtain that talent vary. You rarely find a Kaprizov in the 5th round or a Point in the 3rd round. You are just more likely to find a Cale Makar in the Top 5.

These players may have been traded, but they also get back assets too. I don’t advocate tanking, but Colorado doesn’t win that cup without MacKinnon and Makar.
 
Spurgeon said:
A team needs elite talent to win a cup, the methods of how you obtain that talent vary. You rarely find a Kaprizov in the 5th round or a Point in the 3rd round. You are just more likely to find a Cale Makar in the Top 5.

These players may have been traded, but they also get back assets too. I don’t advocate tanking, but Colorado doesn’t win that cup without MacKinnon and Makar.
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You can tank, which results in a losing culture and fan apathy, and still need the planets to align:

1. Need to tank in a year where you have "generational" talent available to choose from (ie McDavid, McKinnon, etc.)

2. Still need to win the lottery to get the first overall. Finishing last only gives you an 18.5% chance at selecting first.

3. If you don't get the #1 pick, you need to hope that there is a Makar available when you do select.

IMO, its just too easy to say "lets tank for (whomever)". I would rather have a competitive team on the ice that is entertaining to watch than to intentionally lose games so I can get a lottery ticket with no guarantees. I think the way that BG is going about this is the right way.

I would rather have all of Wallstedt, Lambos, Ohgren and Yurov (as a group) than a single Shane Wright, Slaf or Logan Cooley.
 
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MuckOG said:
You can tank, which results in a losing culture and fan apathy, and still need the planets to align:

1. Need to tank in a year where you have "generational" talent available to choose from (ie McDavid, McKinnon, etc.)

2. Still need to win the lottery to get the first overall. Finishing last only gives you an 18.5% chance at selecting first.

3. If you don't get the #1 pick, you need to hope that there is a Makar available when you do select.

IMO, its just too easy to say "lets tank for (whomever)". I would rather have a competitive team on the ice that is entertaining to watch than to intentionally lose games so I can a lottery ticket with no guarantees. I think the way that BG is going about this is the right way.

I would rather have all of Wallstedt, Lambos, Ohgren and Yurov (as a group) than a single Shane Wright, Slaf or Logan Cooley.
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I’m definitely aligned with your thinking regarding how you build a team. Teams need to be built iteratively with younger prospects being slowly introduced onto a roster with winning experience. It is very unfortunate that the Wild ran into the dead cap from the buyouts + the flat cap. This team with Fiala + that additional cap space would have had a real wide window with Kaprizov in his prime.

I am worried that our highly ranked prospect pool is going to follow the previous iteration of hitting on a few upper-level players, but failing to capitalize on their late firsts and 2nd/3rd round picks. It’s great that we’re perceived to have a strong group of defensive and forward prospects, on top of the best goalie prospect in the league. However, I think more than half of our Top 10 prospects are likely to be nothing special.

Faber, Lambos, Addison, ROR, Peart, Hunt — I see 4 of these guys never developing past a #5/6 defenseman. Which ones? No clue, but I don’t think any of them are what could be considered Top-4 locks.

For our offensive prospects, I think we’ve got Rossi and Yurov (if he comes over) that are likely to be impact forwards. Ohgren feels like a low risk medium reward pick. The rest of the group is a crap shoot.

Wallstedt has a lot of hype behind him and he’s performed well beyond his age in the SHL. I think he’s probably the prospect that is likely to be the most impactful to this roster. We’ve got to hope so though because our goaltender depth behind him is terrible (I did like the Gus addition).

I can envision a lot of these guys working out and the team being a strong contender in 25-26. I can also easily envision many of them being nothing and Kaprizov leaves as a UFA. These next 3 years of development are critical and hopefully Judd has picked some good ones.
 
MuckOG said:
Is there a lesson here for those that advocate tanking as the preferred method of rebuilding?

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One draft. Still want a down year.

MuckOG said:
You can tank, which results in a losing culture and fan apathy, and still need the planets to align:

1. Need to tank in a year where you have "generational" talent available to choose from (ie McDavid, McKinnon, etc.)

2. Still need to win the lottery to get the first overall. Finishing last only gives you an 18.5% chance at selecting first.

3. If you don't get the #1 pick, you need to hope that there is a Makar available when you do select.

IMO, its just too easy to say "lets tank for (whomever)". I would rather have a competitive team on the ice that is entertaining to watch than to intentionally lose games so I can get a lottery ticket with no guarantees. I think the way that BG is going about this is the right way.

I would rather have all of Wallstedt, Lambos, Ohgren and Yurov (as a group) than a single Shane Wright, Slaf or Logan Cooley.
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But you have to have multiple picks so this example only goes so far.
 
MuckOG said:
Is there a lesson here for those that advocate tanking as the preferred method of rebuilding?

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Okay...I honestly don't see what the point of that is at all.

Tampa Bay - Stamkos, Hedman
Colorado - Makar, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen
St. Louis - Pietroangelo
Washington - Ovechkin, Backstrom
Pittsburgh - Malkin, Crosby, Fleury (one of the runs Staal)
Chicago - Kane, Toews
Los Angeles - Doughty (Kopitar is a weird case)

You have to go back to 2011 with the Bruins to find a team that didn't have a top 10 pick that won the Stanley Cup and that's stretching it since Bruins did have Seguin on their roster, but he wasn't an impact player. I haven't even gotten into the trades that these teams did with top 10 picks to construct their roster like Duchene and Schenn and Johnson.

Is there a chance Minnesota will win the Cup without drafting in the top 10? Yes, but most teams that eventually win have a top 5/10 prospect that they drafted on their roster.

Minnesota does have three right now on their roster; Brodin (10th), Rossi (9th) and Dumba (7th). We'll see what impact Rossi has on the roster.
 
thestonedkoala said:
Okay...I honestly don't see what the point of that is at all.

Tampa Bay - Stamkos, Hedman
Colorado - Makar, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen
St. Louis - Pietroangelo
Washington - Ovechkin, Backstrom
Pittsburgh - Malkin, Crosby, Fleury (one of the runs Staal)
Chicago - Kane, Toews
Los Angeles - Doughty (Kopitar is a weird case)

You have to go back to 2011 with the Bruins to find a team that didn't have a top 10 pick that won the Stanley Cup and that's stretching it since Bruins did have Seguin on their roster, but he wasn't an impact player. I haven't even gotten into the trades that these teams did with top 10 picks to construct their roster like Duchene and Schenn and Johnson.

Is there a chance Minnesota will win the Cup without drafting in the top 10? Yes, but most teams that eventually win have a top 5/10 prospect that they drafted on their roster.

Minnesota does have three right now on their roster; Brodin (10th), Rossi (9th) and Dumba (7th). We'll see what impact Rossi has on the roster.
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You can tank, finish dead last in the NHL standings, and still only have an 18.5% chance of drafting #1OA.....and you are almost guaranteed to trigger fan apathy in the process. Sure, the diehards on this board might like it, but the average fan won't. Most won't want to spend $200+ bringing their family to a game and watch a team that isn't even trying to win. That means fewer butts in the seats and less revenue for the team.

I love your list, but you seem to have left off the list of teams that finish near the bottom of the league seemingly every season and never climb out of the cellar (ie Buffalo, Edmonton and Arizona). The teams you listed got lucky when they happened to finish last the season before generational talent fell into their lap. Luck had more to do with them getting these players than anything else.
 
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Spurgeon said:
I’m definitely aligned with your thinking regarding how you build a team. Teams need to be built iteratively with younger prospects being slowly introduced onto a roster with winning experience. It is very unfortunate that the Wild ran into the dead cap from the buyouts + the flat cap. This team with Fiala + that additional cap space would have had a real wide window with Kaprizov in his prime.

I am worried that our highly ranked prospect pool is going to follow the previous iteration of hitting on a few upper-level players, but failing to capitalize on their late firsts and 2nd/3rd round picks. It’s great that we’re perceived to have a strong group of defensive and forward prospects, on top of the best goalie prospect in the league. However, I think more than half of our Top 10 prospects are likely to be nothing special.

Faber, Lambos, Addison, ROR, Peart, Hunt — I see 4 of these guys never developing past a #5/6 defenseman. Which ones? No clue, but I don’t think any of them are what could be considered Top-4 locks.

For our offensive prospects, I think we’ve got Rossi and Yurov (if he comes over) that are likely to be impact forwards. Ohgren feels like a low risk medium reward pick. The rest of the group is a crap shoot.

Wallstedt has a lot of hype behind him and he’s performed well beyond his age in the SHL. I think he’s probably the prospect that is likely to be the most impactful to this roster. We’ve got to hope so though because our goaltender depth behind him is terrible (I did like the Gus addition).

I can envision a lot of these guys working out and the team being a strong contender in 25-26. I can also easily envision many of them being nothing and Kaprizov leaves as a UFA. These next 3 years of development are critical and hopefully Judd has picked some good ones.
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I've refrained from jumping on the "In Brackett we Trust" bandwagon because we have yet to see any of the players he's drafted turn into NHLer's, let alone impact players. Given the timelines and position of the picks that's totally reasonable, but we've still got a long way to go before this crop proves that they're as good as the 2010 cadre (Granlund, Coyle, Nino, Zucker, Brodin, Dumba, etc.).

That said, the is some truth to the idea that "quantity has a quality of its own." A lot of the higher-end forwards we're seeing traded around have been wingers, but the fact remains that opportunities regularly present themselves for teams with cap space and assets. Once these buyout windows close we're either going to have a lot of both, or enough of those prospects will have turned into impact players that they'll be eating up the cap space themselves.

So I don't know, I'm not sold yet either but there's a lot of road between here and 2025. And while those cap constraints are in play there's still a very-non-zero chance that we have another top-10 pick before then.
 
MuckOG said:
I love your list, but you seem to have left off the list of teams that finish near the bottom of the league seemingly every season and never climb out of the cellar (ie Buffalo, Edmonton and Arizona). The teams you listed got lucky when they happened to finish last the season before generational talent fell into their lap. Luck had more to do with them getting these players than anything else.
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Buffalo, Edmonton and Arizona all have had ownership and management issues. A good team can tank and then rebuild with the right management.

I also don't think generational talent fell into their lap is the right way to put it. Some of them yes, some of them no.

But what turns off a franchise is the constant mediocrity. Barely good enough to get to the playoffs, barely bad enough and just stuck in a repetitive nature. Either shit or get off the pot.

This team is called the Mild for a reason and many, many look at the franchise as the definition of mediocrity and spinning their wheels. Kaprizov is slowly changing that narrative, but average fans get turned off if every season this team goes 1 and done in the playoffs.
 
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thestonedkoala said:
Buffalo, Edmonton and Arizona all have had ownership and management issues. A good team can tank and then rebuild with the right management.

I also don't think generational talent fell into their lap is the right way to put it. Some of them yes, some of them no.

But what turns off a franchise is the constant mediocrity. Barely good enough to get to the playoffs, barely bad enough and just stuck in a repetitive nature. Either shit or get off the pot.

This team is called the Mild for a reason and many, many look at the franchise as the definition of mediocrity and spinning their wheels. Kaprizov is slowly changing that narrative, but average fans get turned off if every season this team goes 1 and done in the playoffs.
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Watch how fast the fan base dissipates if or when the team intentionally tries to not win.

The Wild didn't make it past the 1st round last season and I bet you that the average fan thought it was the most exciting season of Wild hockey there ever was, even considering how it ended....and is excited for this season as well.
 
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MuckOG said:
Watch how fast the fan base dissipates if or when the team intentionally tries to not win.

The Wild didn't make it past the 1st round last season and I bet you that the average fan thought it was the most exciting season of Wild hockey there ever was, even considering how it ended....and is excited for this season as well.
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Teams rebuild all the time and fans stick around provided that the team has a clear plan. Having one or even two losing seasons as the team refocuses isn't a bad thing for any franchise. That's how the Wild got stuck in the mess they were in after Riser left.

More so, teams like Buffalo had good numbers until they got stuck in losing, which I don't foresee Minnesota getting stuck in. Up until last year, they had over 17,000 people coming in.

Chicago had the 5th most attendance last year, Detroit had the 15th most.
 
thestonedkoala said:
Teams rebuild all the time and fans stick around provided that the team has a clear plan. Having one or even two losing seasons as the team refocuses isn't a bad thing for any franchise. That's how the Wild got stuck in the mess they were in after Riser left.

More so, teams like Buffalo had good numbers until they got stuck in losing, which I don't foresee Minnesota getting stuck in. Up until last year, they had over 17,000 people coming in.

Chicago had the 5th most attendance last year, Detroit had the 15th most.
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The Wild dont need to tank for an elite player. We already have one in #97. Boldy has elite potential, and Wallstedt and Rossi should be major contributors on the way.

I think BG should stay the course.

Stripping this team down so we can intentionally lose could do more harm than good.
 
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MuckOG said:
Watch how fast the fan base dissipates if or when the team intentionally tries to not win.

The Wild didn't make it past the 1st round last season and I bet you that the average fan thought it was the most exciting season of Wild hockey there ever was, even considering how it ended....and is excited for this season as well.
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band wagon fans will always come and go though. even if we dont try to tank if we finish middle of the pack and barely miss the playoffs we will lose out on fans. if we start the year really bad the same fans with just go watch the twolves or say i dont care its still NFL season and then oh hey the wild rattled off 10 wins in a row and they come back screaming i always knew and believed in this team. those fans you dont need to worry about as it will always be up and down. the die hard ones are who they need to worry about and I am not sure that some die hards dont think one season of tanking is gonna make them just say screw this team all together.
 
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DeagleJenkins said:
band wagon fans will always come and go though. even if we dont try to tank if we finish middle of the pack and barely miss the playoffs we will lose out on fans. if we start the year really bad the same fans with just go watch the twolves or say i dont care its still NFL season and then oh hey the wild rattled off 10 wins in a row and they come back screaming i always knew and believed in this team. those fans you dont need to worry about as it will always be up and down. the die hard ones are who they need to worry about and I am not sure that some die hards dont think one season of tanking is gonna make them just say screw this team all together.
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What do you think Kaprizov would think if Guerin went into this season with the expectation of losing? You think he would be ok with that?

He would 100% demand a trade.
 
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