Minnesota Wild General Discussion XIX

[BagHead]

and some wonder why we've never been a contender. gms are more worried about saving their jobs and STH rather than building for the long term (win now). give judd every chance we can to hit a homer while we're stuck in cap h3ll. ps your saying dumba & greenway's production isn't replaceable? i think addison & deslauriers could fill most of it way cheaper.

I think Addison and Deslaurier would be overwhelmed in those roles. If the idea is to build through the draft, we'd sure be making a big step toward getting high picks.


It seems clear to me that Guerin isn't willing to trade guys before he is able to find the return he wants for them, unless he absolutely has to (like with Fiala). And I think that's a good quality to have. I'd have to think that he's probably willing to at least make the Dumba trade, but not while his value is low. My guess is that Dumba either re-signs fairly cheap (~$5M AAV), or gets traded at the deadline.

Then again, if the Wild are in the playoff hunt, he may just keep Dumba for the run and then let him walk as a UFA. That's definitely a better use of assets than trading a 2nd for MAF. I actually like MAF, but I'm still a little raw about that one.

In regards to Greenway, his trade value can't be anywhere near it's high right now. He's an interesting player who still has some upside, but didn't prove it this last year. I can understand why he'd be more valuable to keep than trade.

 

[Digitalbooya]

and some wonder why we've never been a contender. gms are more worried about saving their jobs and STH rather than building for the long term (win now). give judd every chance we can to hit a homer while we're stuck in cap h3ll. ps your saying dumba & greenway's production isn't replaceable? i think addison & deslauriers could fill most of it way cheaper.

We aren't a contender because we haven't traded Dumba and Greenway for lackluster returns?

Willing to waste Kaprizov's prime in doing so?

There is zero chance I would put Deslaurier in Greenway's spot. Duhaime would be my choice to replace him.

The organization didn't play Addison over Jordie Benn with all the injuries to end the year. O'Rourke probably has a better shot of making the team.

If you look at recent trades, Hampus Lindholm pulled a former 1st round dman + 1st + 2nd + 2nd. Hell, Chiarot pulled a recent 3rd rounder + 1st + 4th. Dumba is a hell of a lot closer to Lindholm than Chiarot.

 

[Wabit]

I think Cat is like what MN should have done with Zucker (trade him when he was an RFA due a new contract after his best season).

AZ is just a mess of a team. It's going to be a bottom feeder with or without Chycrun for the next 3 years. I think Chychrun runs away as a UFA. He's on a golden contract and the more term the more value he has for other teams.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I agree that they are a mess of a team. And why they want to trade Chychrun.

 

[ShortPeter6]

What if both Boldy and Rossi have 50pts next year?

That is a great problem to have! I am all about trading Zuccy after next year. Without him or Dumba we have plenty to sign them both.

Because Guerin may be asked to still build a contender out of this team.

Craig had to know that wouldn’t be 100% possible when he ok’d the buyouts.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Craig had to know that wouldn’t be 100% possible when he ok’d the buyouts.

Guerin could have spun it as if the negative (less cap space) would be outweighed by the positives. Hell, a lot of people didn't expect Minnesota to be as good as they were this year.

 

[north21]

Guerin could have spun it as if the negative (less cap space) would be outweighed by the positives. Hell, a lot of people didn't expect Minnesota to be as good as they were this year.

They really exceeded all expectations even by the biggest homer fan alive. Not sure all those career high seasons are sustainable long term beyond Kap and if we inevitably trade Fiala there might only be one direction to go. Why I was on board with a few small moves at the trade deadline. Should be an interesting off season and who even knows where we will go from here.

 

[DANOZ28]

it just makes no sense too me posters would be critical of the idea of trading dumba & greenway for cap saving options such as addison & deslaurier . so production drops maybe 1/3 for both. instead of dumba's 7G 20A's we replace with addison maybe 6G 10A plus greenway's 10G 17A drop to deslaurier 8G maybe 10A (playing w JEE & foligno). we get more picks for judd to work his magic and can possibly keep fiala's 85 points? seems like a no brainer too me. whats your BETTER plan? keeping in mind dumba is a ufa after next season

 

[BagHead]

it just makes no sense too me posters would be critical of the idea of trading dumba & greenway for cap saving options such as addison & deslaurier . so production drops maybe 1/3 for both. instead of dumba's 7G 20A's we replace with addison maybe 6G 10A plus greenway's 10G 17A drop to deslaurier 8G maybe 10A (playing w JEE & foligno). we get more picks for judd to work his magic and can possibly keep fiala's 85 points? seems like a no brainer too me. whats your BETTER plan? keeping in mind dumba is a ufa after next season

You're assuming those moves would have no impact on the players they're paired with, who would also see production drops as a result of playing with inferior players.

You're also ignoring the defensive aspect of the game entirely. Addison is almost surely worse defensively than Dumba at this time, and hockey is as much about preventing goals as it is scoring goals.

Finally, you're ignoring that another drop in production that would occur on the lines/pairings below them. After all, the guys you move up have to be replaced by somebody.

Speaking candidly with you, the Wild are almost surely going to see a drop in production (and points in the standings) one way or another. The question for me boils down to "what trade can you make that gives you the best value back?". That's probably Fiala, though I wouldn't mind Guerin taking calls on other guys at the same time, just to be sure.

 

[Wabit]

it just makes no sense too me posters would be critical of the idea of trading dumba & greenway for cap saving options such as addison & deslaurier . so production drops maybe 1/3 for both. instead of dumba's 7G 20A's we replace with addison maybe 6G 10A plus greenway's 10G 17A drop to deslaurier 8G maybe 10A (playing w JEE & foligno). we get more picks for judd to work his magic and can possibly keep fiala's 85 points? seems like a no brainer too me. whats your BETTER plan? keeping in mind dumba is a ufa after next season

Addison should be able to match Dumba's point totals, they weren't anything special. What he can't match is Dumba's top pair usage 23 mins (19:20 5v5) a night. This is how MN ends up with a Brodin/Kulikov top pair for the season.

Getting rid of Greenway means losing the shutdown/2-way effectiveness of the GREEF line. GREEF was +20 (25gf, 5ga) together in 430 mins, without Greenway JEE/Foligno were a -1 (9gf, 10ga) in 200 mins.

I think the overall team impact is greater than you're giving Dumba and Greenway credit for.

 

[DANOZ28]

if you guys missed it i just watched a youtub vid pod kfan from 3 days ago with guest judd bracket worth a listen. after judd drops off pat michaletti at 22:30 says wild should trade both fiala & dumba. cheers.

baghead , its not my fault guerin has already downgraded our D from suter ; soucy & cole to goli ; kuli & merrill! all of you should hold guerin accountable for that. ps i want soucy back!

none of you including talon offered their fix it plans for the wild , typical msg board responces.

 

[BagHead]

baghead , its not my fault guerin has already downgraded our D from suter ; soucy & cole to goli ; kuli & merrill! all of you should hold guerin accountable for that. ps i want soucy back!

I never said it's you're fault, and I'm sorry if I implied that it is. That was not my intention. I just felt that you understated the full impact that downgrading it further would have.

In response to your most recent post, barring Guerin getting lucky with a desperate GM (yuck!), I don't think a "fix it" plan exists. There is a "mitigate it" plan, which involves trading a good player for a prospect or pick because we don't have enough cap space to retain everyone, so we need to go after futures. It's just not mathematically possible to fully keep this team together, much less upgrade it. If the Wild do better next season, it'll almost certainly be because of a surprise season from one of their prospects.

 

[TaLoN]

I never said it's you're fault, and I'm sorry if I implied that it is. That was not my intention. I just felt that you understated the full impact that downgrading it further would have.

In response to your most recent post, barring Guerin getting lucky with a desperate GM (yuck!), I don't think a "fix it" plan exists. There is a "mitigate it" plan, which involves trading a good player for a prospect or pick because we don't have enough cap space to retain everyone, so we need to go after futures. It's just not mathematically possible to fully keep this team together, much less upgrade it. If the Wild do better next season, it'll almost certainly be because of a surprise season from one of their prospects.

Agreed, fixing it isn't possible with our cap situation. All we can do is try to get through it, without completely wasting the best years of Kap's career.

 

[Wabit]

if you guys missed it i just watched a youtub vid pod kfan from 3 days ago with guest judd bracket worth a listen. after judd drops off pat michaletti at 22:30 says wild should trade both fiala & dumba. cheers.

baghead , its not my fault guerin has already downgraded our D from suter ; soucy & cole to goli ; kuli & merrill! all of you should hold guerin accountable for that. ps i want soucy back!

none of you including talon offered their fix it plans for the wild , typical msg board responces.

Most everyone on here has given their own plans on how to fix the team.

Trade Fiala for future stuff. Re-sign the other Dewar and Middleton. That is 7 d-men, 11 FWDs and 1 goalie signed. So a backup goalie (maybe MAF) and 2 FWD spots to fill maybe Rossi, Shaw, or pickem of cheap 12/13 FWDs that are on the UFA market every season.

It's boring, simple, and not well liked because Fiala is gone. This is the reality of the team/cap situation the GM has made. You can play connect the dots between any player making more than $1m as the reason Fiala can't be re-signed.

Last offseason the GM gambled that Fiala would struggle in a contract year and be cheaper to re-sign. Fiala was even set up to fail with Freddy G and pressbox quality wingers as his linemates. Fiala was on a 55p pace until Boldy was called up. Boldy just forced the team to keep him, and Fiala exploded.

 

[TaLoN]

Last offseason the GM gambled that Fiala would struggle in a contract year and be cheaper to re-sign. Fiala was even set up to fail with Freddy G and pressbox quality wingers as his linemates. Fiala was on a 55p pace until Boldy was called up. Boldy just forced the team to keep him, and Fiala exploded.

Then of course, Billy G goes and says "something something *three good months* something something" making himself all the more a fool.

 

[IAHockey25]

Then of course, Billy G goes and says "something something *three good months* something something" making himself all the more a fool.

Hockey is the ultimate team game. I never will understand people who don't see that

 

[Digitalbooya]

if you guys missed it i just watched a youtub vid pod kfan from 3 days ago with guest judd bracket worth a listen. after judd drops off pat michaletti at 22:30 says wild should trade both fiala & dumba. cheers.

You left off the part where Michaletti then says he would use that new found cap space to go after Kadri or Gaudreau (to play center…) in free agency.

The second guy did bring up an interesting point. Would Phil Kessel be an option for a cheap prove it type deal? Good on the power play. Check. Right handed. Check. Excellent playmaking ability. Check. Not to mention Kessel hasn’t missed a game in what, 13 seasons?

 

[Wabit]

You left off the part where Michaletti then says he would use that new found cap space to go after Kadri or Gaudreau (to play center…) in free agency.

The second guy did bring up an interesting point. Would Phil Kessel be an option for a cheap prove it type deal? Good on the power play. Check. Right handed. Check. Excellent playmaking ability. Check. Not to mention Kessel hasn’t missed a game in what, 13 seasons?

IIRC Kessel wouldn't waive his NTC to come to MN before. Why would he do it now?

He's mid 30's and made a ton of money. I think he'd take a cheap contender (MN is not that) contract before he takes a cheap prove it deal.

Gaudreau playing center sounds like an awful idea. He's had 600 NHL games as a wing and isn't known for his d-zone skills. He's a fantastic player with enough skill to probably be able to be a center, but why? Might as well just tell Kaprizov to learn FOs and d-zone coverage because he's the 1C next year with Boldy and Zucc as his wings.

I think Kadri would be great as a center for MN. But... He's probably going to be a very expensive long term contract, and he'll turn 32 soon. So I wouldn't do more than kick the tires with something like a $7m x 3 offer (assuming Dumba and Fiala are both gone and the cap is there).

I'm still afraid that GMBG is going to trade both Fiala and Dumba only to sign Letang and Malkin to some stupidly expensive longterm deal with full NMCs.

 

[Bazeek]

 

[57special]

Big fan of Dewar, but I don't know how much upside he has. I always thought that he was a better player than Duhaime, though they are different types. If he can win more than half of his FO's and stay healthy he should play in the league for a few years. The move away from obstruction and big hits play in his favor as a smaller, faster player.

At this point he is a better two way C than Rossi, though Rossi has significantly more offensive upside. It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison, as Dewar is 2 years older, and didn't battle a severe Covid infection.

I can see he, Duhaime, and DLo/Shaw forming a 4th line for next year.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

right around 1m I assume.

 

[P10p]

I think there is quite a bit of untapped potential with Dewar.

 

[Wabit]

right around 1m I assume.

I have it closer to 800k if it's a 1-way contract. He hasn't done anything to get much above league min.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I have it closer to 800k if it's a 1-way contract. He hasn't done anything to get much above league min.

i agree however i think he will get something around the 900k-1m. as long as its not more than 1m ill be happy.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I have it closer to 800k if it's a 1-way contract. He hasn't done anything to get much above league min.

good call. 2 x 800k