Minnesota Wild General Discussion XIX

[DeagleJenkins]

They used to run plays to get him open shots. I'm not sure why that changed but they don't seem to do that anymore. Or I am not recalling times that they did this year.

taking him out of Ovis slot on the PP seems to be a sign of something. unsure if they just dislike him hitting the net or what but not having his shot in the spot be a weapon has to be a tell on something. bad coaching, scared to clap from there anymore or what?

 

[north21]

I am really concerned about Minnesota's defense moving forward as the NHL is moving away from guys like Spurgeon/Brodin, responsible defensemen that chip in a few points here and there to guys like Makar, Hughes and Fox. I had hoped that Dumba would have developed into a lighter version of Burns - not 70-80 points, but 60 point (20-40), type of defenseman.

As much as Minnesota has built up depth on the left side of the defense, none of them scream Fox or Makar. I'm hoping that Lambos re-ignites whatever made him a top 5/top 10 ranked prospect, because Minnesota desperately needs some offense from the backend.

I don't think there has ever been a time where every team didn't covet a top 3 offensive defensemen, the nhl moving in the direction it has always been? Overall offensively we were one of five teams who cracked 300 goals this year, in years past we depended on offense from the D because we couldn't score, less so of a problem now. That probably takes a step back when we lose fiala and maybe some guys can't reproduce what they did last season but looking back, better goaltending and D is what was needed more than offense from the back end.

We pretty much have to work with what we have because chasing top 3 talent at any position is pretty much impossible and a waste of time unless you want to make a terrible trade to acquire that kind of skill and gut your own team in the process. It's like getting upset we don't have a world class 1C, those things don't grow on trees and everyone who has one wants to keep them at all costs.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I don't think there has ever been a time where every team didn't covet a top 3 offensive defensemen, the nhl moving in the direction it has always been? Overall offensively we were one of five teams who cracked 300 goals this year, in years past we depended on offense from the D because we couldn't score, less so of a problem now. That probably takes a step back when we lose fiala and maybe some guys can't reproduce what they did last season but looking back, better goaltending and D is what was needed more than offense from the back end.

We pretty much have to work with what we have because chasing top 3 talent at any position is pretty much impossible and a waste of time unless you want to make a terrible trade to acquire that kind of skill and gut your own team in the process. It's like getting upset we don't have a world class 1C, those things don't grow on trees and everyone who has one wants to keep them at all costs.

Impossible? Do you have a minute to hear about the 2023 NHL Entry Draft?

 

[BagHead]

They used to run plays to get him open shots. I'm not sure why that changed but they don't seem to do that anymore. Or I am not recalling times that they did this year.

Seemed to end around the same time Boudreau was replaced. Granlund was also the guy that kept feeding him, so, it could also be that that particular zone setup is no longer viable due to personnel. Just guessing.

 

[BigT2002]

I don't think there has ever been a time where every team didn't covet a top 3 offensive defensemen, the nhl moving in the direction it has always been? Overall offensively we were one of five teams who cracked 300 goals this year, in years past we depended on offense from the D because we couldn't score, less so of a problem now. That probably takes a step back when we lose fiala and maybe some guys can't reproduce what they did last season but looking back, better goaltending and D is what was needed more than offense from the back end.

We pretty much have to work with what we have because chasing top 3 talent at any position is pretty much impossible and a waste of time unless you want to make a terrible trade to acquire that kind of skill and gut your own team in the process. It's like getting upset we don't have a world class 1C, those things don't grow on trees and everyone who has one wants to keep them at all costs.

I'm not so sure the Wild have ever really relied on their defense to do the scoring, but I'm foggy in that 2016-2019 area. Below are the stats though for Top D Goal scorer and runner-up. Realistically, the Wild have been mildly successful with at least getting 25 goals out of their Top 2 offensive-minded players for the last 6 years. For reference, it would take 1,2,3 of the Wild to equal what Makar did himself this year during the regular season.

But I do agree with your point, offensive d-men are definitely coveted. For all the faults of Mike Green back in the early 00's on defense -- he more than made up for it when he was nearing goal record.

Year	Player	Goals (Top player)
21-22	Spurgeon	10 (2 with 7)
20-21	Brodin	9 (Spurgeon 7)
19-20	Spurgeon	12 (2 with 8)
18-19	Spurgeon	14 (Dumba 12)
17-18	Dumba	14 (Spurgeon 9)
16-17	Dumba	11 (Spurgeon 10)
15-16	Spurgeon	11 (Dumba 10)
14-15	Scandella	11 (Spurgeon 9)
13-14	Brodin	8 (Suter 8)

 

[Wabit]

taking him out of Ovis slot on the PP seems to be a sign of something. unsure if they just dislike him hitting the net or what but not having his shot in the spot be a weapon has to be a tell on something. bad coaching, scared to clap from there anymore or what?

Dumba hasn't ever been good in Ovi's spot, or on the PP in general. His best numbers are 6ppg (3 times), 10 ppa (once), and 12ppp (4 times). He has the big shot, but it's so inaccurate that it misses the net way too often. There isn't even a chance for a dirty/rebound goal because the puck is headed out of the zone. The Suter limp wrister was so much better at creating scoring chances, as a counter point. Spurgeon isn't much better either, his 14ppp this year was a career high.

The whole pp setup needs to be reworked. They need to move the puck, not just sit and hold it or play hot potato between the halfwall and the point. This is nothing new it has been a problem for years. The entire PP (except Spurgeon) has changed over for the Coyle, Granny, Koivu, Nino, Parise, Suter years, yet it's the same slow and methodical approach. It leads me to believe it the coaching/system not the players that are the issue.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Dumba hasn't ever been good in Ovi's spot, or on the PP in general. His best numbers are 6ppg (3 times), 10 ppa (once), and 12ppp (4 times). He has the big shot, but it's so inaccurate that it misses the net way too often. There isn't even a chance for a dirty/rebound goal because the puck is headed out of the zone. The Suter limp wrister was so much better at creating scoring chances, as a counter point. Spurgeon isn't much better either, his 14ppp this year was a career high.

The whole pp setup needs to be reworked. They need to move the puck, not just sit and hold it or play hot potato between the halfwall and the point. This is nothing new it has been a problem for years. The entire PP (except Spurgeon) has changed over for the Coyle, Granny, Koivu, Nino, Parise, Suter years, yet it's the same slow and methodical approach. It leads me to believe it the coaching/system not the players that are the issue.

I agree dumba missed a lot but it was still a weapon, it’s Still something they needed to defend where now our pp just seems to be a system built around clear open lanes and shooting into shin pads only.

 

[Wabit]

I agree dumba missed a lot but it was still a weapon, it’s Still something they needed to defend where now our pp just seems to be a system built around clear open lanes and shooting into shin pads only.

It wasn't really even a weapon. Everything was so slow and telegraphed that all they other team had to do was just stay home to cut off the cross ice passes to Dumba. The pp setup for one timer was the only option, not one of several options. It was the same thing when they ran it with Fiala from the other side.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

It wasn't really even a weapon. Everything was so slow and telegraphed that all they other team had to do was just stay home to cut off the cross ice passes to Dumba. The pp setup for one timer was the only option, not one of several options. It was the same thing when they ran it with Fiala from the other side.

Key word is was. You can now have dumba with Kap Boldy and maybe Fiala. That’s more weapons and more people to cover.

 

[Wabit]

Key word is was. You can now have dumba with Kap Boldy and maybe Fiala. That’s more weapons and more people to cover.

I'd have Spurgeon in the Ovi spot over Dumba without hesitation. Spurgeon doesn't have the hardest shot, but he is a smarter player and is more creative. His talents are wasted playing the point.

 

[57special]

I am not sure about some of Addison's game, but I do think that he will be very good on the PP.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I'd have Spurgeon in the Ovi spot over Dumba without hesitation. Spurgeon doesn't have the hardest shot, but he is a smarter player and is more creative. His talents are wasted playing the point.

Spurgeon is dog shit on the power play. What are you on about? Dumba in the Ovi spot would be perfect. You referenced that he had 6 goals and 12 pp points three times. Yet, you failed to mention that one of those 6 power play goals 12 power play points was only through 32 games. Spurgeon being on the 1st power play unit at all is a joke in itself.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I'd have Spurgeon in the Ovi spot over Dumba without hesitation. Spurgeon doesn't have the hardest shot, but he is a smarter player and is more creative. His talents are wasted playing the point.

Dumba is better for the PP. Fearing his clapper missing the net fine leave him up top on the point so he can QB the play as he is not bad at it and he is shoot first so people wont cheat to his passes on the half wall. Kap and Boldy below the dots, Ek net front with and Dumba ready to pull the trigger. down low emphasis on the pp will work better than our crummy pp setup.

 

[ShortPeter6]

Spurgeon is dog shit on the power play. What are you on about? Dumba in the Ovi spot would be perfect. You referenced that he had 6 goals and 12 pp points three times. Yet, you failed to mention that one of those 6 power play goals 12 power play points was only through 32 games. Spurgeon being on the 1st power play unit at all is a joke in itself.

The problem is he doesn’t have that big shot anymore. Addison is the guy for the power play. He isn’t afraid to shoot and is mobile. I think the biggest problem is the system though. We have too many guys low. They need to spread out more to create lanes and I guarantee Addison would be 5x better than any other of our Dmen on the PP.

 

[f7ben]

Dumba makes far to many mistakes at the blue line to have him reliably qb the pp from back there.

 

[BagHead]

The problem is he doesn’t have that big shot anymore. Addison is the guy for the power play. He isn’t afraid to shoot and is mobile. I think the biggest problem is the system though. We have too many guys low. They need to spread out more to create lanes and I guarantee Addison would be 5x better than any other of our Dmen on the PP.

Five times you say? Guessing that's hyperbole, but I would definitely take a 70 point defenseman on an ELC on this team.

For the record, I'm in favor of giving Addison a chance there. That said, the problem with Addison is that the organization doesn't seem to trust his defensive play. If he makes the team he'll probably do so as a powerplay specialist.

Seems like a waste having him only play about 8 minutes per night, due to sheltering, when you could try to develop his defensive game in Iowa with lots of minutes, in the hopes of getting a long-term two-way defender instead of a PP specialist. So yeah, I think he's a solution, but not this season.

 

[Digitalbooya]

The problem is he doesn’t have that big shot anymore. Addison is the guy for the power play. He isn’t afraid to shoot and is mobile. I think the biggest problem is the system though. We have too many guys low. They need to spread out more to create lanes and I guarantee Addison would be 5x better than any other of our Dmen on the PP.

Addison can't even get a spot on the team that iced Jordie Benn.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Five times you say? Guessing that's hyperbole, but I would definitely take a 70 point defenseman on an ELC on this team.

For the record, I'm in favor of giving Addison a chance there. That said, the problem with Addison is that the organization doesn't seem to trust his defensive play. If he makes the team he'll probably do so as a powerplay specialist.

Seems like a waste having him only play about 8 minutes per night, due to sheltering, when you could try to develop his defensive game in Iowa with lots of minutes, in the hopes of getting a long-term two-way defender instead of a PP specialist. So yeah, I think he's a solution, but not this season.

thats why we should be accepting the growing pains this year. Trade Dumba, slot Addison into his spot and even out the top 4 minutes so he can learn while also Qbing the PP. Then you let Rossi play C with Boldy and Fiala and let him learn it and grow into it. the rest of the roster needs to step up and be just as good if not better than this last season. This year should not be playoffs or bust it should be a learning year.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Dumba makes far to many mistakes at the blue line to have him reliably qb the pp from back there.

Nobody is saying Dumba should QB the PP.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Nobody is saying Dumba should QB the PP.

i did actually. i hated Suter as QB of the pp as he was not respected as a shooter up top in the middle. Dumba at least gets the PK to pay attention to him having the puck up top in the middle.

 

[Digitalbooya]

i did actually. i hated Suter as QB of the pp as he was not respected as a shooter up top in the middle. Dumba at least gets the PK to pay attention to him having the puck up top in the middle.

The team's option for PP QB are obnoxiously bad. It's why I viewed getting Brannstrom with 7th overall for Fiala a decent return. Then you can fire Kulikov, Middleton, and (possibly) Merrill to the sun.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

The team's option for PP QB are obnoxiously bad. It's why I viewed getting Brannstrom with 7th overall for Fiala a decent return. Then you can fire Kulikov, Middleton, and (possibly) Merrill to the sun.

Addison does just fine as PP QB. Dumba would be fine in the role. I dont need him to be elite at holding the zone from up top. i need him to score some goals and at the very least be a distraction from up top so he can fake a shot and pass off for a one timer from the half wall that isnt automatically met with shin pads. his passing and offensive instincts are good, thats why i want him there. I believe playing defense should not be a mindset on the pp, should be an all out attack. they wanna shoot out of the zone early? fine we attack 5v3 or 5v2 for 5 seconds.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Addison does just fine as PP QB. Dumba would be fine in the role. I dont need him to be elite at holding the zone from up top. i need him to score some goals and at the very least be a distraction from up top so he can fake a shot and pass off for a one timer from the half wall that isnt automatically met with shin pads. his passing and offensive instincts are good, thats why i want him there. I believe playing defense should not be a mindset on the pp, should be an all out attack. they wanna shoot out of the zone early? fine we attack 5v3 or 5v2 for 5 seconds.

I think it's a long shot that Addison makes the team. O'Rourke probably has a better shot of making the team.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I think it's a long shot that Addison makes the team. O'Rourke probably has a better shot of making the team.

i dont see why, he didnt look bad when he was up here. he looked decently comfortable with the puck, moved it well, was steady in the offensive zone and has quality skating. He should be on this team and Dumba should be available for the right price.

 

[Slotski]

The team's option for PP QB are obnoxiously bad. It's why I viewed getting Brannstrom with 7th overall for Fiala a decent return. Then you can fire Kulikov, Middleton, and (possibly) Merrill to the sun.

Why Middleton? And if you do “fire him into the sun”, How are you going to compete with a D that averages about 180 lbs per?