Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2023-24

[Dr Jan Itor]

It did? When did they win the championship? I must have missed that.

I'd say that finishing in the final 4 and creating immense interest in the team qualifies as paying off.

Though, the risk that they took is the exact opposite of the rebuilding that people are talking about. Also the NHL-equivalent of the Gobert trade is probably ~3 major moves, not just the one, considering the difference in the sports.

 

[AKL]

I'd say that finishing in the final 4 and creating immense interest in the team qualifies as paying off.

Though, the risk that they took is the exact opposite of the rebuilding that people are talking about. Also the NHL-equivalent of the Gobert trade is probably ~3 major moves, not just the one, considering the difference in the sports.

Anthony Edwards and Karl Anthony Towns are both 1st overall picks that the Wolves made

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Anthony Edwards and Karl Anthony Towns are both 1st overall picks that the Wolves made

Correct. I'm just not sure how intentional or strategic they were.

 

[AKL]

Correct. I'm just not sure how intentional or strategic they were.

Not sure how much intention or strategy matters, the more important part is getting and/or having those pieces.

I mean for all intents and purposes, it's not even about having a high draft pick, it's just about getting the elite players. Trying to get a high draft pick is only because it makes it easier to get those elite guys.

Kaprizov is obviously a good enough player to lead you to a Cup and he was a 5th round pick. The problem is we need more than just Kaprizov, and we need that talent spread across different positions on the roster, and so far we've been unable to do that where we've been picking.

Wolves got that talent because they got Towns and Edwards at 1oa. Denver got that talent at 41oa and 7oa. It's not the high picks people love, it's what the high picks more often result in.

Edmonton probably didn't have much intention or strategy when they were bad and ended up picking Draisaitl and McDavid but no one really cares about that now that they're in the finals and those are two of the best players in the league.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Not sure how much intention or strategy matters, the more important part is getting and/or having those pieces.

I mean for all intents and purposes, it's not even about having a high draft pick, it's just about getting the elite players. Trying to get a high draft pick is only because it makes it easier to get those elite guys.

Kaprizov is obviously a good enough player to lead you to a Cup and he was a 5th round pick. The problem is we need more than just Kaprizov, and we need that talent spread across different positions on the roster, and so far we've been unable to do that where we've been picking.

Wolves got that talent because they got Towns and Edwards at 1oa. Denver got that talent at 41oa and 7oa. It's not the high picks people love, it's what the high picks more often result in.

Edmonton probably didn't have much intention or strategy when they were bad and ended up picking Draisaitl and McDavid but no one really cares about that now that they're in the finals and those are two of the best players in the league.

This is the conversation that I was jumping into:

Another good analogy is the Timberwolves. They finally got a GM that took some major risks and it paid off handsomely.

The GM is Tim Connelly, hired after Towns and Edwards were drafted. The major risk was his Gobert trade, done ~2 months after being hired.

 

[AKL]

This is the conversation that I was jumping into:

The GM is Tim Connolly, hired after Towns and Edwards were drafted. The major risk was his Gobert trade, done ~2 months after being hired.

Yeah I don't necessarily know what other risks that GM took, but my point is that

Though, the risk that they took is the exact opposite of the rebuilding that people are talking about.

The Wolves had already done the "rebuilding" of the core pieces they needed to do. That risk they took with the Gobert trade would be like the Wild trading for a #2D when they already have a full first line, full second line, a 1G, and a legit top 4 D aside from the #2.

I don't think the Wild are at the Gobert trade, or even DLo for Mike Conley trade, point in their cycle yet because they don't have the Edwards, Towns and McDaniels on the roster yet. Could happen at some point though if Yurov, Faber and Wallstedt pan out, and we can get some more help on D.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yeah I don't necessarily know what other risks that GM took, but my point is that


The Wolves had already done the "rebuilding" of the core pieces they needed to do. That risk they took with the Gobert trade would be like the Wild trading for a #2D when they already have a full first line, full second line, a 1G, and a legit top 4 D aside from the #2.

I don't think the Wild are at the Gobert trade, or even DLo for Mike Conley trade, point in their cycle yet because they don't have the Edwards, Towns and McDaniels on the roster yet. Could happen at some point though if Yurov, Faber and Wallstedt pan out, and we can get some more help on D.

I know the value of high draft picks.

I also know that we essentially have top 3 picks in the 2015, 2019 and 2020 drafts currently on the roster. The hope now is that Yurov, Rossi and Wallstedt are what we're thinking they might be, and the mission is to upgrade the supporting spots on the roster (admittedly difficult with the extensions/NMCs).

 

[DigitalBoldy]

We finished with 87 points and 75 points would've been a top 5 pick. So, 6 fewer wins. Kaprizov missing more games probably does the trick depending on which ones they are.

I think you’re kidding yourself. With the amount of injuries we sustained this year and the way we handled the previous year without Kap down the stretch, this team isn’t losing 6 more games than they already did. Wishful thinking. This team should have won more games than they did.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Anthony Edwards and Karl Anthony Towns are both 1st overall picks that the Wolves made

We are the Bucks. We got our superstar outside the top 10 of the draft. Eventually we need a GM to put the pieces around said superstar

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think you’re kidding yourself. With the amount of injuries we sustained this year and the way we handled the previous year without Kap down the stretch, this team isn’t losing 6 more games than they already did. Wishful thinking. This team should have won more games than they did.

We had good goaltending the previous year. Kaprizov outscored 2nd place on the team by 39%.

I think 6 wins flipping is pretty reasonable.

Maybe somebody can look up our record in the 7 games Kaprizov missed this year?

 

[AKL]

I know the value of high draft picks.

I also know that we essentially have top 3 picks in the 2015, 2019 and 2020 drafts currently on the roster. The hope now is that Yurov, Rossi and Wallstedt are what we're thinking they might be, and the mission is to upgrade the supporting spots on the roster (admittedly difficult with the extensions/NMCs).

I wouldn't consider Rossi a top 3 caliber pick from 2020, though I hope we keep him and he continues developing into a player close to what we thought we got at the time.

But yeah that's what I'm saying. We'll be ready to make those kinds of moves when this team has Kaprizov as the elite 100+ point offense driver, Yurov as the 80+ point first liner, Boldy as the 80+ point first liner, Ek and/or Rossi as the 65-75 point top sixers, Faber as a true 1D (I don't think he's there yet), Wallstedt as the 1G, and then more quality on D behind Faber (Brodin could be included in this). At that point, more people will be talking about what kind of Gobert style trade we can make, and less people will be talking about rebuilding.

But if we don't ever reach that point, if Rossi tops out as a 50-60 point guy, Yurov does the same, Faber kinda plateaus as a #2, and Wallstedt is just an average to slightly above average starter, then we don't have the pieces in place to move from the rebuild talk to the big splash trade talk.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I wouldn't consider Rossi a top 3 caliber pick from 2020, though I hope we keep him and he continues developing into a player close to what we thought we got at the time.

But yeah that's what I'm saying. We'll be ready to make those kinds of moves when this team has Kaprizov as the elite 100+ point offense driver, Yurov as the 80+ point first liner, Boldy as the 80+ point first liner, Ek and/or Rossi as the 65-75 point top sixers, Faber as a true 1D (I don't think he's there yet), Wallstedt as the 1G, and then more quality on D behind Faber (Brodin could be included in this). At that point, more people will be talking about what kind of Gobert style trade we can make, and less people will be talking about rebuilding.

But if we don't ever reach that point, if Rossi tops out as a 50-60 point guy, Yurov does the same, Faber kinda plateaus as a #2, and Wallstedt is just an average to slightly above average starter, then we don't have the pieces in place to move from the rebuild talk to the big splash trade talk.

Faber.

 

[AKL]

We are the Bucks. We got our superstar outside the top 10 of the draft. Eventually we need a GM to put the pieces around said superstar

This isn't actually the NBA, you need more than one Kaprizov to contend for a championship. Oilers have McDavid and Draisaitl. Panthers have Barkov and Tkachuk and Reinhart. Colorado had MacKinnon and Rantanen and Makar. Vegas had Eichel and Stone and Pietrangelo (and still another guy who actually won the playoff MVP beside those three).

 

[DigitalBoldy]

We had good goaltending the previous year. Kaprizov outscored 2nd place on the team by 39%.

I think 6 wins flipping is pretty reasonable.

Maybe somebody can look up our record in the 7 games Kaprizov missed this year?

We had an incredible amount of injuries, horrible goaltending, poor coaching and leadership to start the year, and no depth.

This is what bottoming out looks like for this roster. #13

Not exactly fair to use Kap’s injury time. Half the roster was injured at the same time.

 

[AKL]

Faber.

Okay, I think that one's still a little questionable right now but I'll give it to you

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Okay, I think that one's still a little questionable right now but I'll give it to you

I'm just saying, behind Stutzle, is there anybody from that draft that you'd absolutely/no question put ahead of Faber in a re-draft, as ridiculous as it is to do this early?

 

[AKL]

I'm just saying, behind Stutzle, is there anybody from that draft that you'd absolutely/no question put ahead of Faber in a re-draft, as ridiculous as it is to do this early?

No, which is why I'm calling it questionable but also giving it to you

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

We had an incredible amount of injuries, horrible goaltending, poor coaching and leadership to start the year, and no depth.

This is what bottoming out looks like for this roster. #13

Not exactly fair to use Kap’s injury time. Half the roster was injured at the same time.

And we had a superstar for 75 games. Change that to 55-60 games and yes, I see 6 more losses. I don't think that this controversial.

 

[AKL]

Not exactly fair to use Kap’s injury time. Half the roster was injured at the same time.

This team lives and dies with Kaprizov. Take Kaprizov off this team and it's picking top 5

versus

If you take MacKinnon off the Avs, they might still be a playoff team with Rantanen and Makar leading the way

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

We might just find out all of this in a couple years.

 

[AKL]

We might just find out all of this in a couple years.

Obviously I hope Kaprizov stays and our prospects turn out, but there is a part of me that is curious what would happen if Kaprizov leaves. How good/bad we'd be if our prospects turn out or how good/bad we'd be if they don't, and whether that inspires Leipold to finally do a true rebuild if we end up on the bad side.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

This isn't actually the NBA, you need more than one Kaprizov to contend for a championship. Oilers have McDavid and Draisaitl. Panthers have Barkov and Tkachuk and Reinhart. Colorado had MacKinnon and Rantanen and Makar. Vegas had Eichel and Stone and Pietrangelo (and still another guy who actually won the playoff MVP beside those three).

Florida is the best team in the league right now IMO.

Florida traded for Tkachuk and Reinhart and Bennett and Tarasenko and Okposo and signed Bobrovsky and claimed Forsling off waivers etc etc etc. It's not like Florida built their entire team through the the draft. They got one superstar and then made the necessary trades and free agent signings. Out of their entire forward group, two players were drafted by the team. For defense, only one player drafted by the team.

Vegas the year before, who exactly are their draft picks again? They don't stick around long enough to play for the team...

And we had a superstar for 75 games. Change that to 55-60 games and yes, I see 6 more losses. I don't think that this controversial.

Kaprizov already played half the season injured from Stanley folding him up last year.

 

[AKL]

Florida is the best team in the league right now IMO.

Florida traded for Tkachuk and Reinhart and Bennett and Tarasenko and Okposo and signed Bobrovsky and claimed Forsling off waivers etc etc etc. It's not like Florida built their entire team through the the draft. They got one superstar and then made the necessary trades and free agent signings. Out of their entire forward group, two players were drafted by the team. For defense, only one player drafted by the team.

Vegas the year before, who exactly are their draft picks again? They don't stick around long enough to play for the team...

Like I said, it's not necessarily about drafting them, but you gotta get them somehow. There's also a fair amount of luck in Florida's case because no one in the world saw Reinhart having the type of season he did and I don't think it's a hot take to doubt that he'll ever do it again

Kaprizov already played half the season injured from Stanley folding him up last year.

Yeah and we were slated to pick top 7 during that time lol

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Kaprizov already played half the season injured from Stanley folding him up last year.

And we weren't very good while he was clearly struggling.

First 20 games, Kaprizov had 18 points in those games and we lost 12.

Next 55 games, he had 78 points and we lost 23.

 

[57special]

Florida is the best team in the league right now IMO.

Florida traded for Tkachuk and Reinhart and Bennett and Tarasenko and Okposo and signed Bobrovsky and claimed Forsling off waivers etc etc etc. It's not like Florida built their entire team through the the draft. They got one superstar and then made the necessary trades and free agent signings. Out of their entire forward group, two players were drafted by the team. For defense, only one player drafted by the team.

Vegas the year before, who exactly are their draft picks again? They don't stick around long enough to play for the team...


Kaprizov already played half the season injured from Stanley folding him up last year.

Yeah, there's more than one way to build a winning team. I don't know how FLA did it, but you have guys like Vanderhaeghe playing like stars and ERod, the guy BUF couldn't wait to dump, playing really well. They have Kulikov still playing a regular shift, and Forsling, their best Dman, was a 5th round, CBH cast off. Even Reinhart, who was a good, but a nothing special player, has turned into a monster. They have something going on there that has everyone elevating their game. Even their coach, Maurice, is, for the 1st time, not losing control of his guys like he seemed to do every year in WPG.

Ekblad was a #1 oa, but a very underwhelming one, partly due to injuries. Barkov, a #2, who is everything you want in a #1C... maybe doesn't have the flash of a McDavid or Mackinnon, but he is a superb two way guy. Maybe he's the secret?