Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23

[ThatGuy22]

Kind of surprised they are going to try go Brodin-Spurgeon.

They've always had great numbers in the limited time they've spent playing together, but Suter-Dumba was always a mess when they've tried to switch it up.

Hopefully Middleton and Dumba can hold it together.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

Kind of surprised they are going to try go Brodin-Spurgeon.

They've always had great numbers in the limited time they've spent playing together, but Suter-Dumba was always a mess when they've tried to switch it up.

Hopefully Middleton and Dumba can hold it together.

middleton is quite a bit different than Suter so they may mesh better.

 

[BagHead]

middleton is quite a bit different than Suter so they may mesh better.

I'm a little nervous about what their breakouts will look like, but maybe I'm underestimating them.

 

[AKL]

I'm a little nervous about what their breakouts will look like, but maybe I'm underestimating them.

My concern as well. Physical, yes, good, but I can see that pairing getting trapped in the D zone too often.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

I'm a little nervous about what their breakouts will look like, but maybe I'm underestimating them.

I can see why that would be worrisome. I forget how effective Middleton is in that department but Dumba can be decent.

 

[AKL]

I can see why that would be worrisome. I forget how effective Middleton is in that department but Dumba can be decent.

In my opinion, it's not something he was very good at last year. He's still relatively young though, and inexperienced, hopefully it's something he can improve at this season.

 

[DeagleJenkins]

In my opinion, it's not something he was very good at last year. He's still relatively young though, and inexperienced, hopefully it's something he can improve at this season.

i forget how young he is, the stache throws me off. I dont think he is really bad at it but i do believe he just needs the experience to improve it. i did like the offensive instincts he showed. i believe he was labeled as a quality defensive dman when we got him but he does have some offense to his game. if that combo can succeed that will be fun to watch.

 

[TaLoN]

They've always had great numbers in the limited time they've spent playing together

I think that was the other way around. Suter and Dumba played well together, but Brodin and Spurg didn't mesh well. Suter just didn't "enjoy" playing with Dumba though. Brodin does and they are very effective as a pair.

 

[AKL]

I think that was the other way around. Suter and Dumba played well together, but Brodin and Spurg didn't mesh well. Suter just didn't "enjoy" playing with Dumba though. Brodin does and they are very effective as a pair.

It does seem a little strange to me that they would choose this season to split those pairs and try Brodin and Spurgeon again. All things considered, those pairings weren't really a problem last year?

Wildly speculating, but I wonder if there's a hidden driving factor behind it that the fans just won't ever know about.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

It was pretty obvious to me that the Brodin-Dumba pairing just isn’t as effective as it needs to be when shutting down the top tier players, it is why I am really hoping Faber turns out as good as advertised on the defensive side. An elite shutdown pairing would be a huge boon in the playoffs.

This basically reads as a test of how the team will look without Dumba.

 

[57special]

I used to love seeing Suter's face when he reacted to some of Dumba's improvisations when they were playing together briefly.

I'm a bit surprised to see an attempt to mix the top 4 pairs up again. Spurgeon and Brodin talent's are somewhat redundant- seems like they would be better to split them up, especially with Dumba and Brodin finally making a solid pair in the last year or two. Makes the conspiracy theorist in me wonder if they are not prepping for a Dumba trade later in the year- want to see if Middleton can be the YIn on a top 4 defensive pair to Addison's Yang, should it come to that.

It was pretty obvious to me that the Brodin-Dumba pairing just isn’t as effective as it needs to be when shutting down the top tier players, it is why I am really hoping Faber turns out as good as advertised on the defensive side. An elite shutdown pairing would be a huge boon in the playoffs.

This basically reads as a test of how the team will look without Dumba.

Ha, beat me to it!

 

[BagHead]

It does seem a little strange to me that they would choose this season to split those pairs and try Brodin and Spurgeon again. All things considered, those pairings weren't really a problem last year?

Wildly speculating, but I wonder if there's a hidden driving factor behind it that the fans just won't ever know about.

Makes a little sense if they're intending for Spurgeon and Brodin to be around for a while longer still, but Dumba to move on. It also sounds like they want an elite defensive top pairing, and felt that Brodin-Dumba wasn't that.

It was pretty obvious to me that the Brodin-Dumba pairing just isn’t as effective as it needs to be when shutting down the top tier players, it is why I am really hoping Faber turns out as good as advertised on the defensive side. An elite shutdown pairing would be a huge boon in the playoffs.

This basically reads as a test of how the team will look without Dumba.

I should have read your post before I posted, you basically hit all my points. Oops.

 

[AKL]

Makes a little sense if they're intending for Spurgeon and Brodin to be around for a while longer still, but Dumba to move on. It also sounds like they want an elite defensive top pairing, and felt that Brodin-Dumba wasn't that.

This was one of my hidden factors. They're never going to come out and say this is what the reason is, even if some of us can assume pretty well that's at least part of it.

 

[Wabit]

I think that was the other way around. Suter and Dumba played well together, but Brodin and Spurg didn't mesh well. Suter just didn't "enjoy" playing with Dumba though. Brodin does and they are very effective as a pair.

This is how I recall things also. Try the pair out again and see, but don't stick with it if it isn't working.

The hidden factor is money. Spurgeon is paid like a top pair d-man. Dumba is in a contract year and they can't afford to re-sign him if he's their 1RD.

 

[DigitalBoldy]

I think that was the other way around. Suter and Dumba played well together, but Brodin and Spurg didn't mesh well. Suter just didn't "enjoy" playing with Dumba though. Brodin does and they are very effective as a pair.

That’s exactly how I remember it. Dumba sure had his moments next to Suter though

 

[AKL]

This is how I recall things also. Try the pair out again and see, but don't stick with it if it isn't working.

The hidden factor is money. Spurgeon is paid like a top pair d-man. Dumba is in a contract year and they can't afford to re-sign him if he's their 1RD.

They shouldn't be re-signing him anyway. No point in having two 30+ year old RD when you have two 21- year old RD you traded relatively big parts of your roster for waiting to join the team.

If playing him on the top pair increases his deadline trade value, that's gotta be the second highest priority, right after winning hockey games.

 

[Wabit]

They shouldn't be re-signing him anyway. No point in having two 30+ year old RD when you have two 21- year old RD you traded relatively big parts of your roster for waiting to join the team.

If playing him on the top pair increases his deadline trade value, that's gotta be the second highest priority, right after winning hockey games.

Spurgeon becomes tradeable in 2 years. Keeping Dumba and trading Spurgeon should be on the table. It's another reason they need to see if Brodin/Spurgeon works or not. If it doesn't work then it means MN has a very expensive RD that isn't on their top pair.

Addison is the natural Spurgeon PP1/o-zone role Spurgeon played last year.

Dumba's trade value means nothing. He's not getting traded unless the season goes to poop and they end up tanking.

 

[AKL]

Spurgeon becomes tradeable in 2 years. Keeping Dumba and trading Spurgeon should be on the table. It's another reason they need to see if Brodin/Spurgeon works or not. If it doesn't work then it means MN has a very expensive RD that isn't on their top pair.

Addison is the natural Spurgeon PP1/o-zone role Spurgeon played last year.

Dumba's trade value means nothing. He's not getting traded unless the season goes to poop and they end up tanking.

Just because he "becomes tradeable" doesn't mean you should trade him (certainly doesn't mean Guerin will), and it's still two years away.

No matter how we feel about Spurgeon and his contract, he is the far superior player to Dumba at this point. And he's moveable NOW, not in two years, maybe.

I really don't see why we'd bend over backwards to keep Dumba. We have better offensive options on the blueline, we have better defensive options on the blueline, we have cheaper replacements on the blueline. It's time to move on.

 

[Wabit]

Just because he "becomes tradeable" doesn't mean you should trade him (certainly doesn't mean Guerin will), and it's still two years away.

No matter how we feel about Spurgeon and his contract, he is the far superior player to Dumba at this point. And he's moveable NOW, not in two years, maybe.

I really don't see why we'd bend over backwards to keep Dumba. We have better offensive options on the blueline, we have better defensive options on the blueline, we have cheaper replacements on the blueline. It's time to move on.

This is debatable.

I'll take Dumba over Spurgeon every day of the week. The team is worse when Dumba is out injured. The team is better when Spurgeon is out injured.

 

[AKL]

This is debatable.

I'll take Dumba over Spurgeon every day of the week. The team is worse when Dumba is out injured. The team is better when Spurgeon is out injured.

It's really not that debatable. I'd love to hear your arguments though.

Just from a preliminary perusing of several different sites, I'm having a tough time finding anything Dumba is definitely better at than Spurgeon, besides hits.

 

[Wabit]

It's really not that debatable. I'd love to hear your arguments though.

I've said them many times. Just look at the team's record when they are out injured.

Last year:
-53-22-7 (113p) overall
-Dumba 39-13-5 (119p pace) with / 14-9-2 (98.4p pace) without
-Spurgeon 41-19-5 (109p pace) with / 12-3-2 (125p pace) without

18-19:
-37-36-9 (83p) overall
-Dumba 17-13-2 (92p pace) with / 20-23-7 (77p pace)

With or without Spurgeon playing, for his career, the team has had a roughly the same p% in it's games.

Dumba has a bigger impact on the team winning or losing than Spurgeon.

5v5 aToI:
21-22: Dumba +3:05 (both out a lot of games)
20-21: Dumba +1:16
19-20: Dumba +1:17
18-19: Spurgeon +0:11 (Dumba out for 50 games)
17-18: Dumba +0:37 (Spurgeon out 21 games)

Dumba has been used more 5v5 than Spurgeon for years.

PK aToI:
21-22: Dumba +0:02
20-21: Spurgeon +0:08
19-20: Spurgeon +1:21
18-19: Spurgeon +0:49
17-18: Spurgeon + 0:58

Dumba has closed the gap to even usage on PK (19-20 his game was just off at everything).

Spurgeon gets more PP time (not even worth comparing), but I really don't want either of them on the PP. So that is a wash for me.

Dumba is 4 years younger and is currently (and should be on his next deal) cheaper than Spurgeon.

 

[Spurgeon]

I've said them many times. Just look at the team's record when they are out injured.

Last year:
-53-22-7 (113p) overall
-Dumba 39-13-5 (119p pace) with / 14-9-2 (98.4p pace) without
-Spurgeon 41-19-5 (109p pace) with / 12-3-2 (125p pace) without

18-19:
-37-36-9 (83p) overall
-Dumba 17-13-2 (92p pace) with / 20-23-7 (77p pace)

With or without Spurgeon playing, for his career, the team has had a roughly the same p% in it's games.

Dumba has a bigger impact on the team winning or losing than Spurgeon.

5v5 aToI:
21-22: Dumba +3:05 (both out a lot of games)
20-21: Dumba +1:16
19-20: Dumba +1:17
18-19: Spurgeon +0:11 (Dumba out for 50 games)
17-18: Dumba +0:37 (Spurgeon out 21 games)

Dumba has been used more 5v5 than Spurgeon for years.

PK aToI:
21-22: Dumba +0:02
20-21: Spurgeon +0:08
19-20: Spurgeon +1:21
18-19: Spurgeon +0:49
17-18: Spurgeon + 0:58

Dumba has closed the gap to even usage on PK (19-20 his game was just off at everything).

Spurgeon gets more PP time (not even worth comparing), but I really don't want either of them on the PP. So that is a wash for me.

Dumba is 4 years younger and is currently (and should be on his next deal) cheaper than Spurgeon.

Using the performance of the team to rate the impact of the player is just not a statistically sound method. There are so many external factors that could explain variation in the team’s performance that it makes any conclusion flawed. What was the QOC of the teams they were playing, who else was injured on the team, how many B2B games were there, how many home games were there? You can go on and on, there’s way too much noise in that kind of analysis.

Measuring the actual performance of the player on the ice, the Goli-Spurgeon pairing performed better than the Brodin-Dumba pairing. What influences this? Offensive zone start time. All stats are flawed, but I think it’s pretty easy to come to a conclusion that Spurgeon’s performance is a lot more impressive with Goli than Dumba’s is with Brodin.

Dumba has not been the same defenseman since his injury. He’s nowhere near the defensive player that Spurgeon is and he doesn’t have the shot anymore to justify any offensive upside either. He’s a right-handed Scandella being propped up by his best friend.

 

[TaLoN]

He’s nowhere near the defensive player that Spurgeon is

Spurgeon isn't near the defensive player he himself used to be either. The gap between them isn't near as large as people make out.

 

[Al Lagoon]

Matt Dumba can score, skate, hit, a unique skill set for Wild D'men, and is a hell of a guy in the community.

I'll accept an occasional brain fart in exchange for that.

 

[57special]

Dumba has been mildly disappointing since he signed his deal, but is still a useful player. That is beside the point when it comes to whether or not he will be re-signed. The team simply can’t afford him going forward at the 6m + he is likely to demand.
Sourgeon can not be moved, for better it worse.