Wasted Talent
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Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23
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- Dec 10, 2012
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I'll be honest, I did not remember him playing 6 games for us this season. I still don't remember it, but I see that it happened.
BagHead
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I'm gonna assume based on his ice time that he was on the fourth line the entire time, which isn't where you put an Adam Beckman type
Obvious Fabertism
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I think it was BEEF for a bit when Greenway was injured, but he just didn’t look good at all. Hopefully he has progressed considerably.
Playing on a grinder line isn’t much better than the 4th line. His play style is much closer to Fiala’s than Eriksson Ek’s. I’m hoping that Ek can break out of that mold given more time with skill players. He certainly has the capabilities.
Anyone else worried that this team will try to push for a playoff spot and end up getting a player injured long term that they otherwise would have traded next season?
Dr Jan Itor
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Joe Smith is obviously a guy who doesn’t actually watch the games down in Iowa. Yes, Beckman has had 4 goals in two games, but some of them were tap ins where other guys did the work - nothing wrong with that, but Beckman is not going end to end and flashing elite skill. Before the past two games, he had one point in 5 gp. The guy is not strong, or tough, doesn’t make the best decisions, and is not great defensively. He needs time to get stronger, and hopefully play smarter.
Not trying to be down on him, he just needs more time.
I think Rossi or Walker would be the better choice. I would’ve said Walker hands down two weeks ago, but he has looked a bit off after the AS break. Either he’s hitting a rookie wall, is mildly injured, or having to travel to Montreal and back, as well as spending two days with on ice activities rather than chilling down in Iowa has affected his game a bit.
Petan is producing like crazy down in Iowa, but there is ample evidence that he cannot bring that game up to the NHL.
- Dec 10, 2012
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The reason I don't think it's gonna be Rossi is because that interview Guerin did a bit ago seemed to imply that Rossi wouldn't be back this season.
Beckman has a lot of room to grow still, but even if he's just getting tap ins, he's finishing, and that's the important part.
But if they want scoring from Iowa, it's pretty much just those three. Unless they go way off the wall and call up Swaney or something.
I like Swaney, but he seems like the very definition of a tweener. At least we know guys like Cramarossa won’t be called up, as he, and one other similar guy, have both moved on to Europe. Fogarty is a good AHL’er, but I think he has shown that he is not a NHL’er, either.
Giroux, no. Milne, too soon, though he’s very much a Dean sort of player.
I can see Shaw being sent down, waivers or no. I would bet that Dean wasn’t thrilled about his penalty last night.
Thing is, the best forwards in Iowa are offensive types, not grinders. No point bringing them up to be 4th liners. They all might as well get PP#2 TOI…why not? Beckman has been on the second unit down in Iowa sometimes. Walker and Rosssi always on the 1st.
@57special I know it's been said before by others, but I too really appreciate your insights regarding IA. Very helpful for those of us that can't / don't watch them.
Beckman has a hot hand right now. It's not uncommon to have the guy with the hot hand when a callup is needed to get the call. TBF not strong, tough, good decision making, or good d-zone play can pretty much describe any of the potential FWD callups.
I've been wondering if Walker would hit a wall this year. He's already played more games than he did in any college season and there is a lot more traveling.
I agree with what GMBG said about Rossi. A late season, no pressure, callup if both MN and Iowa are out of the Playoffs, sure.
I was comparing Beckman to the other two possible callups. While tall, he is certainly no stronger. He will get pasted in a fight with just about anyone, even in the AHL.Walker, OTOH, has always had an edge to him. In his first fight, ever down in the AHL he floored a guy. He is also less skilled with the puck than either Rossi or Walker(shot aside), is a worse decision maker than the other two, and is a worse defender. Walker is a faster and better skater, Rossi ia a better skater, and both can play C..
If Beckman is brought up, then Guerin is sticking to keeping Rossi down( for some reason that is beyond me), and Walker is nursing an injury. Otherwise, it makes no sense. Never mind 3 good months, Beckman has two good games.
It has been mentioned more than once in the Iowa telecasts that Beckman is beloved in the “room”. Must be it.
He probably had Yurov type TOI
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Why do we want/need any of Walker, Rossi, or Beckman fighting. If that's what you want than Baddock should be the callup. I don't care than both can play C. Steel, Shaw, Dewar, Hartman, Freddy G, JEE, and even Boldy can play C better than the AHLers.
The team needs goal scoring 5v5, Beckman (and Petan) adds more of that than either Walker or Rossi. Over half of Rossi and Walker points are coming from non-5v5 play in Iowa. None of these players should be on the PP1 or any PK unit in the NHL. PP2 in MN is so bad that one player isn't going to help it. In the last 5 games Petan 0g/1p, Walker 1g/1p, Rossi 1g/2p, Beckman 4g/5p, Swaney 3g/5p.
None of these guys belong in the NHL and they all have their warts. If I had to choose one right now for how MN is playing, I'd take the guy that isn't afraid to shoot and is putting the puck in the net.
So they don’t belong in the NHL because they aren’t in the NHL?
Again, Beckman has had two good games. Before that, he went five games with zero goals, and only one assist. He has 27 points in 43 gp. Walker has 40 points in 41 gp. Rossi has 28 points in 30 gp. Beckman is quite clearly not producing points at the same rate as either Rossi or Walker.
As I’ve said before, Petan produces very well in the AHL, but he cannot seem to make his game work in the NHL.unlike the others, he has had multiple chances to make the NHL, having played 162 gp, and producing 32 pts. He will be 28 yo in a few weeks. I am not sure why you are bringing him up.
The toughness angle was brought up because I was wracking my brain to think of why Beckman would be brought up over Walker or Rossi. Someone might look at his listed height( 6’2” now) and weight(190) and think that he is better suited for a grinding role than the other two. I don’t see any heft or toughness in his game, at all.I am not sure what you are on about suggesting that Braddock should come up…or rather I do know what you are on about. Rather than having a calm discussion about the relative merits of players, you instead isolated a sentence that I wrote, took it out of context, and tried to ridicule my opinion…
You keep saying that these players can’t do this, and can’t do that in the NHL. Well, they never will if you don’t give them a chance, and part of what giving them a chance is about is living with the growing pains. What I do see is that players like Greenway and Steel, who have multiple chances and many games to reach their potential, have failed to, and seem to have next to no upside(see Petan). Maybe Walker and Rossi will never be anything in the NHL, but so far they has played better than Beckman, and by a good bit, in the AHL , and have earned a spot. The reason that they get more PP 1 in the AHL than Beckman is because they produced, and took better care of the puck than Beckman.
So they don’t belong in the NHL because they aren’t in the NHL?
Again, Beckman has had two good games. Before that, he went five games with zero goals, and only one assist. He has 27 points in 43 gp. Walker has 40 points in 41 gp. Rossi has 28 points in 30 gp. Beckman is quite clearly not producing points at the same rate as either Rossi or Walker.
As I’ve said before, Petan produces very well in the AHL, but he cannot seem to make his game work in the NHL.unlike the others, he has had multiple chances to make the NHL, having played 162 gp, and producing 32 pts. He will be 28 yo in a few weeks. I am not sure why you are bringing him up.
The toughness angle was brought up because I was wracking my brain to think of why Beckman would be brought up over Walker or Rossi. Someone might look at his listed height( 6’2” now) and weight(190) and think that he is better suited for a grinding role than the other two. I don’t see any heft or toughness in his game, at all.I am not sure what you are on about suggesting that Braddock should come up…or rather I do know what you are on about. Rather than having a calm discussion about the relative merits of players, you instead isolated a sentence that I wrote, took it out of context, and tried to ridicule my opinion…
You keep saying that these players can’t do this, and can’t do that in the NHL. Well, they never will if you don’t give them a chance, and part of what giving them a chance is about is living with the growing pains. What I do see is that players like Greenway and Steel, who have multiple chances and many games to reach their potential, have failed to, and seem to have next to no upside(see Petan). Maybe Walker and Rossi will never be anything in the NHL, but so far they has played better than Beckman, and by a good bit, in the AHL , and have earned a spot. The reason that they get more PP 1 in the AHL than Beckman is because they produced, and took better care of the puck than Beckman.
You mentioned fighting as the toughness, that was my response. None of them should be fighting.
Not all points are equal, just look at Addison in the NHL, 27p this year but only 6p are 5v5. Rossi and Walker are thriving on special teams play, but not producing any better than Beckman or Swaney in non-special teams play for the season.
AHL stats aren't great and without going through the game logs I can't just have 5v5 stats.
Walker: 21g/40p, +15, 87 shots. 41 games. 10g/22p non-PP/PK
Beckman: 18g/27p, +7, 155 shots, 43 games. 14g/18p non-PP/PK
Rossi: 9g/28p, +5, 67 shots, 30 games. 6g/16p non-PP/PK
Swaney: 12g/21p, +9, 99 shots, 34 games. 10g/18p non-PP/PK
Petan: 13g/33p, +7, 89 shots, 30 games. 10g/23p non-PP/PK
Even going back the last 10 games Rossi has 2g/8p, Beckman has 6g/7p, Walker has 6g/8p. So pretty similar numbers over the same span. Why does Beckman's 1p in 5 games matter any more than Rossi or Walker with 1p in 5 games during that span?
-I eliminated Petan because he's older, had plenty of NHL chances, and done nothing. He would be my first choice as the FWD to just sit in the pressbox.
-I eliminated Rossi because he's not a goal scorer like the others; MN needs someone putting the puck in the net because the team as a whole is just isn't finishing.
-I eliminated Walker because he's looked off lately, and that isn't the time to give a guy a callup (he'd be my first choice otherwise).
-So that leaves the callup choice for me between Beckman and Swaney (3g/8p in the last 10 games). I went with Beckman because he's younger and has a handful of games already in the NHL, but it's mostly a tossup between the 2 of them.
I weighted my choice on the last 5 games (with a look at the last 10 games for a larger comparison), non-PP/PK points (mainly goals), and shot totals. I want a free shooter, who can score goals in 5v5 play, because anyone called up shouldn't be playing on special teams.
I say none of them are NHLers because they are all worse options to have in the than the fringe players of Steel, Dewar, and Shaw already on the team.
Hartman, with a lucky bounce off his body, is the only FWD not on PP1 to score a goal in the last month for MN. Heck Brodin (2g) is 5th on the team in goal scoring since Jan 15th and only 7 players total have a single goal in that same time span (12 games). It's even worse if you look at just 5v5 stats, just 5 players have a scored a goal: Kap/Spurgeon (3g), Boldy/Brodin (2g), Hartman (1g)
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Wasted Talent
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BagHead
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