Minnesota Wild General Discussion - 2022-23

[AKL]

Caufield has never struggled to score ever. If his past shows anything, he has an extremely fast learning curve in terms of increasing his goal scoring.

Look at:
SPASH year 1 vs SPASH year 2
USNTDP year 1 vs USNTDP year 2
US U18 year 1 vs US U18 year 2
US U18 WJC year 1 vs US U18 WJC year 2
Wisconsin year 1 vs Wisconsin year 2
Montreal year 1 vs Montreal year 2

This kid is stupid good at scoring goals.

I didn't even say he's bad, but he's definitely not gonna have more 5v5 goals than Kaprizov with guys like Gaudreau, Hartman, Steel or whoever else Boldy has played with. It helps his case that he's almost always had a lot of help on his lines. Boldy was the right pick at the time, and as much as you love Caufield, it's still not a mistake to have taken Boldy in 2019.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I didn't even say he's bad, but he's definitely not gonna have more 5v5 goals than Kaprizov with guys like Gaudreau, Hartman, Steel or whoever else Boldy has played with. It helps his case that he's almost always had a lot of help on his lines. Boldy was the right pick at the time, and as much as you love Caufield, it's still not a mistake to have taken Boldy in 2019.

Boldy has done nothing to indicate he was a better pick.

 

[AKL]

Boldy has done nothing to indicate he was a better pick.

Other than a higher career point per game rate, sure. I don't think anyone would deny Caufield is the better pure goal scorer of the two, but that was the case in 2019 when Boldy was still a higher rated prospect. Caufield hasn't done anything to prove he's the better player either.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I wish Caufield played for Michigan State.

 

[AKL]

I wish Caufield played for Michigan State.

I'm not even trying to bash Caufield. They're both good, but good in very different ways. Totally cool to prefer the other way, but at this point neither of them have separated themselves from the other.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I'm not even trying to bash Caufield. They're both good, but good in very different ways. Totally cool to prefer the other way, but at this point neither of them have separated themselves from the other.

I probably shouldn't talk too much because if this Ohgren/Snuggerud thing goes south, I'm probably going to be pretty intolerable about it.

 

[BagHead]

Boldy has done nothing to indicate he was a better pick.

He's also done nothing to indicate he's the worse pick. It's really early in their careers, but the Wild appear to have picked one of the best players available in the entire draft. I don't know why this would be a point of contention. Had they whiffed on the pick, I'd get your complaint, but they really didn't at all.

 

[AKL]

I probably shouldn't talk too much because if this Ohgren/Snuggerud thing goes south, I'm probably going to be pretty intolerable about it.

I mean if Caufield goes on to be a perennial 60 goal scorer and Boldy tops out at 60 points, I get it. But we're not at that point yet. Not even close.

If Snuggerud/Ohgren turns out the same way, I get that too. Ohgren wasn't my favorite pick at the time, and I'm obviously cheering for him to prove me wrong, but I still don't have a ton of confidence in him.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Ohgren screams Larsson to me.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Other than a higher career point per game rate, sure. I don't think anyone would deny Caufield is the better pure goal scorer of the two, but that was the case in 2019 when Boldy was still a higher rated prospect. Caufield hasn't done anything to prove he's the better player either.

Propped up by Fiala.

I wish Caufield played for Michigan State.

I don’t get what your deal is dude. I would be saying the same thing even if he played for Michigan State.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Propped up by Fiala.

Is Caufield propped up by Suzuki, or do good players just benefit from playing with other good players?

 

[AKL]

Propped up by Fiala.

Yeah maybe slightly, but it's not like Caufield is doing it all on his own. And whatever extra points he gained from playing with Fiala, he's paid for it by getting less than he should have playing with fourth liners this year.

In the end, his rate is still higher than Caufield.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I mean if Caufield goes on to be a perennial 60 goal scorer and Boldy tops out at 60 points, I get it. But we're not at that point yet. Not even close.

If Snuggerud/Ohgren turns out the same way, I get that too. Ohgren wasn't my favorite pick at the time, and I'm obviously cheering for him to prove me wrong, but I still don't have a ton of confidence in him.

Boldy isn’t even on pace to get 60 points this year while being force fed power play minutes with not one but two point per game players and bonus shifts with them after a PK.

Boldy is on pace for 57 points. Caufield was on pace for 46 goals this year. This argument is so stupid. This team has been dying for goal scorers for 23 years and counting.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don’t get what your deal is dude. I would be saying the same thing even if he played for Michigan State.

My deal is that I don't think you'd be as interested in the topic, and that I am doubting your second sentence to at least some degree.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Yeah maybe slightly, but it's not like Caufield is doing it all on his own. And whatever extra points he gained from playing with Fiala, he's paid for it by getting less than he should have playing with fourth liners this year.

In the end, his rate is still higher than Caufield.

You literally have already implied that Caufield benefits from his linemates at all levels already. Yet, you never mention that Boldy benefitted from his linemates as well. Kaprizov and Zucc? Fiala? Newhook? Hello?

Like I said, Boldy’s production this year might be less without Fiala at 5v5, but it’s grossly boosted by playing the power play with Kaprizov and Zuccarello.

I give it to the 1/4 or 1/2 mark of next year for that rate to be in Caufield’s favor for the foreseeable future.

 

[AKL]

You literally have already implied that Caufield benefits from his linemates at all levels already. Yet, you never mention that Boldy benefitted from his linemates as well. Kaprizov and Zucc? Fiala? Newhook? Hello?

Like I said, Boldy’s production this year might be less without Fiala at 5v5, but it’s grossly boosted by playing the power play with Kaprizov and Zuccarello.

I give it to the 1/4 or 1/2 mark of next year for that rate to be in Caufield’s favor for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, cause I'm not trying to make the case that one has separated himself from the other like you are, so I have no reason to bring up their linemates. But if you wanna talk about how Boldy's production is propped up by Fiala and playing on the PP with Kaprizov, we can talk about how Caufield is playing with grossly better players at even strength than Boldy is this year. He spent less than half of his career so far with Fiala, and that number won't get any higher. He's getting what, 3-4 minutes per game with Kaprizov? That's significantly less than Caufield is getting with Montreal's top players.

They've both gotten help in their careers from playing with other good players. They're both good players in their own right. Neither is definitively better or worse than the other right now. Boldy was the right pick in 2019, and to date, neither of them have done anything to make taking Boldy a mistake.

Like I said, I get that you prefer Caufield, but it's super weird that you're hell bent to prove Boldy is bad or something. He's not, and it's super weird that you're trying to force this conversation with anyone who'll have it.

 

[Digitalbooya]

My deal is that I don't think you'd be as interested in the topic, and that I am doubting your second sentence to at least some degree.

I was calling for the Wild to pick Caufield before he ever played for Wisconsin. Go check the draft thread.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I was calling for the Wild to pick Caufield before he ever played for Wisconsin. Go check the draft thread.

And if we check the draft thread, I'm pretty sure we will see me not hating on the idea of picking Caufield.

I just don't think that Boldy was a bad pick either, and this shitty 5v5 scoring season by the team doesn't really change anything. I expected either a step back or a non-step forward from Boldy this season anyway, with what changed around him. And yes, I do think that if he was centered by Nick Suzuki all year, he'd have better 5v5 numbers right now, just like I think that if Caufield was playing with Freddy Gaudreau, his would be worse. Not non-existent, I'm not calling him "bad", but it's just what I think is the reality of the situations. Same as what I think would happen to Kaprizov's numbers if he was playing with a better center.

And when you say that Boldy plays with Kaprizov and Zuccarello on the power play, he sure does. And, accordingly, he has better power play numbers than Caufield had so far. So I'm not sure where that gets us.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Yeah, cause I'm not trying to make the case that one has separated himself from the other like you are, so I have no reason to bring up their linemates. But if you wanna talk about how Boldy's production is propped up by Fiala and playing on the PP with Kaprizov, we can talk about how Caufield is playing with grossly better players at even strength than Boldy is this year. He spent less than half of his career so far with Fiala, and that number won't get any higher. He's getting what, 3-4 minutes per game with Kaprizov? That's significantly less than Caufield is getting with Montreal's top players.

They've both gotten help in their careers from playing with other good players. They're both good players in their own right. Neither is definitively better or worse than the other right now. Boldy was the right pick in 2019, and to date, neither of them have done anything to make taking Boldy a mistake.

Like I said, I get that you prefer Caufield, but it's super weird that you're hell bent to prove Boldy is bad or something. He's not, and it's super weird that you're trying to force this conversation with anyone who'll have it.

Me bringing up Fiala was in response to you saying that Caufield always has good linemates. Suzuki doesn’t hold a candle to Fiala offensively. Dach and his career high 35 points (and counting)? Nah. Care to argue that point?

Which player does Caufield get to play on the power play with that’s better than Kaprizov and Zuccarello?

Boldy at all strengths has 566 minutes TOI without Kap and Zucc, 272 minutes with both Kap and Zucc, 80 minutes with just Kaprizov no Zucc, and 39 minutes with just Zucc no Kaprizov.

Over 40% of Boldy’s total ice time is spent with at least one of Kaprizov or Zuccarello. If you would do your due diligence and look at the game logs, Boldy has been consistently getting over 5 minutes a game with Kap and Zucc. Hell, last night against Florida they had over 11 minutes together… to the tune of zero goals thanks in large part to Boldy’s lack of finish.

I didn’t say Boldy was a mistake (ie a bad pick). I said that Caufield was a better fit and would have been a better pick for what we need and have needed since the inception back in 2000.

I have never said that Boldy is bad. Nice straw man argument.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

This is Minnesota pro sports.....our teams rarely pick the right guy in any draft.....thank god for Justin Jefferson. But I think Boldy has shown enough that if they ever find him a decent line mate or two again he will be just fine.

 

[AKL]

But I think Boldy has shown enough that if they ever find him a decent line mate or two again he will be just fine.

We already saw this last year. Good players benefit from playing with other good players. Fiala benefitted from Boldy as much as Boldy benefited from Fiala. That's why Fiala went from a ~65 point pace to a 100+ point pace when Boldy got here, and replacing Fiala with Hartman/Steel/whoever is why Boldy went from ~65 point pace last year to just under a 60 point pace this year. Honestly the fact that it's only dropped off that much is nothing but a testament to his improvement.

 

[Digitalbooya]

And if we check the draft thread, I'm pretty sure we will see me not hating on the idea of picking Caufield.

I just don't think that Boldy was a bad pick either, and this shitty 5v5 scoring season by the team doesn't really change anything. I expected either a step back or a non-step forward from Boldy this season anyway, with what changed around him. And yes, I do think that if he was centered by Nick Suzuki all year, he'd have better 5v5 numbers right now, just like I think that if Caufield was playing with Freddy Gaudreau, his would be worse. Not non-existent, I'm not calling him "bad", but it's just what I think is the reality of the situations. Same as what I think would happen to Kaprizov's numbers if he was playing with a better center.

And when you say that Boldy plays with Kaprizov and Zuccarello on the power play, he sure does. And, accordingly, he has better power play numbers than Caufield had so far. So I'm not sure where that gets us.

I never said you hated Caufield. You guys are just putting words in my mouth at this point. I have been saying that Caufield is a better fit for what we need organizationally and I’m damn sure that’s why I would have picked him back in 2019.

I don’t buy that Caufield would be hugely hindered by playing with Gaudreau and Hartman/Walker/Steel/Greenway/Foligno. We are talking about a guy that holds two of the top 3 single season goal scoring records for the USDP. He obliterated Auston Matthews’ then record of 55 goals by 17, scoring 72 goals. He holds the career goal record for the USDP as well, beating second place Phil Kessel by 22 goals and third place Patrick Kane by 42 goals. His offensive numbers at Wisconsin got BETTER when Alex Turcotte, a then pre injury top 5 pick, left Wisconsin and he was replaced by Ty Pelton Byce.

Caufield would have looked like Fiala pre Boldy. 65-70 points easily with power play time with Kap and Zucc.

Caufield’s power play points vs Boldy’s power play points is exactly proof that Kap and Zucc are vastly superior to Suzuki and Dach. Not that anyone would argue that. It’s just not surprising to see. Boldy is last amongst him, Kaprizov, Zucc and Eriksson Ek for power play p/60. Everyone of Suzuki/Caufield/Dach would be last based on the power play numbers for Montreal.

I’m just f***ing annoyed that Boldy can’t seem score. I don’t know who said his shot was good, but it’s average at best. His lack of scoring touch cost Minnesota the game last night.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Honestly the fact that it's only dropped off that much is nothing but a testament to his improvement.

Is it? Or did his numbers just not change dramatically because he has a lot more first unit power play time?

ES numbers:
22-23: 53gp 9g 9a 18pts 13:59toi/gp
21-22: 47gp 12g 17a 29pts 13:02toi/gp

PP numbers:
22-23: 53gp 7g 12a 19pts 3:54toi/gp
21-22: 47gp 3g 7a 10pts 2:21toi/gp

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I never said you hated Caufield. You guys are just putting words in my mouth at this point. I have been saying that Caufield is a better fit for what we need organizationally and I’m damn sure that’s why I would have picked him back in 2019.

I don’t buy that Caufield would be hugely hindered by playing with Gaudreau and Hartman/Walker/Steel/Greenway/Foligno. We are talking about a guy that holds two of the top 3 single season goal scoring records for the USDP. He obliterated Auston Matthews’ then record of 55 goals by 17, scoring 72 goals. He holds the career goal record for the USDP as well, beating second place Phil Kessel by 22 goals and third place Patrick Kane by 42 goals. His offensive numbers at Wisconsin got BETTER when Alex Turcotte, a then pre injury top 5 pick, left Wisconsin and he was replaced by Ty Pelton Byce.

Caufield would have looked like Fiala pre Boldy. 65-70 points easily with power play time with Kap and Zucc.

Caufield’s power play points vs Boldy’s power play points is exactly proof that Kap and Zucc are vastly superior to Suzuki and Dach. Not that anyone would argue that. It’s just not surprising to see. Boldy is last amongst him, Kaprizov, Zucc and Eriksson Ek for power play p/60. Everyone of Suzuki/Caufield/Dach would be last based on the power play numbers for Montreal.

I’m just f***ing annoyed that Boldy can’t seem score. I don’t know who said his shot was good, but it’s average at best. His lack of scoring touch cost Minnesota the game last night.

Then the conversation should stop here, because I find the bolded sentence to be absolutely preposterous, and not even in a Caufield-specific way.

And I didn't say that you said that I hated Caufield. I'm just telling you that I'm not coming from a place of pre-ordained dislike for the player.

I like Boldy, I'm glad he's on the team. I like Caufield, I wouldn't mind if he was on the team. Yes, if Boldy would've scored last night, we probably would've won. That is a factual statement. Same as if Spurgeon would scored in OT. Both are factual statements.

 

[AKL]

Is it? Or did his numbers just not change dramatically because he has a lot more first unit power play time?

ES numbers:
22-23: 53gp 9g 9a 18pts 13:59toi/gp
21-22: 47gp 12g 17a 29pts 13:02toi/gp

PP numbers:
22-23: 53gp 7g 12a 19pts 3:54toi/gp
21-22: 47gp 3g 7a 10pts 2:21toi/gp

He's putting up the points. I don't care where he does it.

Kaprizov's even strength production has dropped significantly too, yet you're not talking about that? I wonder if there's an agenda.