Confirmed Buy-Out [MIN] Zach Parise and Ryan Suter

[Sota Popinski]

I'm really trying to understand this, what am I missing?

This has to be one of the worst decisions I've seen in the last decade. If it was for Dumba, you PAY to have seattle not take him, regardless of the price (because its less than 14mil in dead cap even for just ONE YEAR) or you do whatever you need to before buying out BOTH at this ridiculous hit.

Lets just say for arguments sake, they had a clause where if one is bought out, the other must be too, it still DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE to justify those cap penalties.

someone help me understand the absurdity here.

Suter has a cap hit of $7.5M the next 4 seasons. The Wild think they have internal candidates to take his job, and save $5M in year one and $1M in year two. In years 3 and 4, more contracts come off the books, and maybe the cap goes up. Guerin also doesn't seem to think Parise and Suter being around the team the next few years would be beneficial. It's not that hard to understand. If the cap savings are nothing in years 3 and 4, Guerin must have thought it was a sunk cost and it would be better for the team long term to just rip the bandage off now. It also gives us the opportunity to see what we have with some of our younger players like Boldy, Menell and Addison that might be ready for the NHL right now.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I can see STL going after Suter to fill the JBo role we’ve been missing since his incident.

Suter-Parayko
Krug-Faulk
Scandella/Mikkola-Bortuzzo

 

[Kocur Dill]

Guerin was trying to remove the bandaid in other ways for a long time.

No doubt. As he walked through the door a couple years ago he put the entire team on notice.

 

[keppel146]

Me too. F@#k Z.P.
Not even mad he left. Mad at how he said he was going to stay and let the fans to believe he would stay and then went to play with a while because he was homesick.

His dad had cancer, but yeah that had zero influence on his decision

 

[jetsforever]

That's really crazy
Kinda nice and fitting though that they arrived together and left together

 

[TaLoN]

That's really crazy
Kinda nice and fitting though that they arrived together and left together

Symmetry always feels right.

 

[Nsjohnson]

Me too. F@#k Z.P.
Not even mad he left. Mad at how he said he was going to stay and let the fans to believe he would stay and then went to play with a while because he was homesick.

You're STILL mad? Holy jumpin.

 

[Mr Positive]

With all these "bad" moves, one huge fallacy is that fans always judge moves in isolation. Professional GMs manage the whole cap.

Even with something as destructive as what Guerin just did, it's only bad if there isn't a plan to deal with it. I don't know how Minnesota's other contracts and young players line up, but it's definitely possible for a bad move like these buyouts to be a "one step back, two steps forward" situation.

 

[ThePsychicSaw]

Suter has a cap hit of $7.5M the next 4 seasons. The Wild think they have internal candidates to take his job, and save (in what world is SPENT cap on a player that CAN PLAY save?) $5M in year one and $1M in year two. In years 3 and 4, more contracts come off the books, and maybe the cap goes up. Guerin also doesn't seem to think Parise and Suter being around the team the next few years would be beneficial. It's not that hard to understand. If (no if) the cap savings are nothing in years 3 and 4, Guerin must have thought it was a sunk cost and it would be better for the team long term to just rip the bandage off now. It also gives us the opportunity to see what we have with some of our younger players like Boldy, Menell and Addison that might be ready for the NHL right now.

but what you just described, that neither of us are privy to, does not justify at all over 12million of dead cap for 3 consecutive years. You're telling me there was no package to be put together to accomplish the same thing you describe (playing younger players that MIGHT be NHL ready) as a better way of dealing with such a dead cap penalty?

some teams justify 1st rounders just to save a few million. 14 million in dead cap and losing roster players/veterans, rather than paying whatever necessary to, lets say, seattle in picks to pick someone theyd rather lose? maybe, MAYBE justify buying out just 1 in Parise. Bury one?

theres such a discrepancy in potential justification, in face of a KNOWN negative of that amount of dead cap.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

They are paying to gain protections in the expansion draft?

 

[Chayos]

With all these "bad" moves, one huge fallacy is that fans always judge moves in isolation. Professional GMs manage the whole cap.

Even with something as destructive as what Guerin just did, it's only bad if there isn't a plan to deal with it. I don't know how Minnesota's other contracts and young players line up, but it's definitely possible for a bad move like these buyouts to be a "one step back, two steps forward" situation.

I thought the Oilers were totally screwed after the Keith Deal, but these buyouts are a way bigger deal for Minny. There are a lot of teams in the West with huge dead cap now.

 

[bleedgreen]

Last time the Wild got bent over a bit in expansion, and this move eliminates that happening again. Between keeping Dumba and opening up spots for the younger core this will likely be a good move in the end. I remember all the smack people talked about Minny after the Staal trade last year, and everyone assumed they would suck. It was time to move on so they did. Get it over with.

 

[Sota Popinski]

but what you just described, that neither of us are privy to, does not justify at all over 12million of dead cap for 3 consecutive years. You're telling me there was no package to be put together to accomplish the same thing you describe (playing younger players that MIGHT be NHL ready) as a better way of dealing with such a dead cap penalty?

some teams justify 1st rounders just to save a few million. 14 million in dead cap and losing roster players/veterans, rather than paying whatever necessary to, lets say, seattle in picks to pick someone theyd rather lose? maybe, MAYBE justify buying out just 1 in Parise. Bury one?

theres such a discrepancy in potential justification, in face of a KNOWN negative of that amount of dead cap.

Parise and Suter would have to be protected in the expansion draft by whatever teams traded for them. So what teams want those cap hits and to waste an expansion protection spot on them? Nobody. So the Wild are then forced to lose Dumba for nothing and are stuck with those cap hits anyway.

You're acting like there is some part of the equation here that Guerin missed. You might disagree with the decision he made, but there is no way that he didn't consider the team he put on the ice next year, the cap situation, the expansion draft and the locker room when making this decision.

 

[T_Cage]

I don’t get either of these moves tbh.

a buyout saves them 3.33m on each guy, even employing a min wage player for the next 4yrs to replace them will cost 3m, so they save no money

and the only year they get cap savings is this year (clears like 10m), the next three are negligible when you consider they have 2 roster spots to fill, then 4 years of 1.66m in dead space… are they that desperate for cap space in 2021-22 to hinder themselves for the next several years?

 

[ThePsychicSaw]

Parise and Suter would have to be protected in the expansion draft by whatever teams traded for them. So what teams want those cap hits and to waste an expansion protection spot on them? Nobody. So the Wild are then forced to lose Dumba for nothing and are stuck with those cap hits anyway.

You're acting like there is some part of the equation here that Guerin missed. You might disagree with the decision he made, but there is no way that he didn't consider the team he put on the ice next year, the cap situation, the expansion draft and the locker room when making this decision.

Its making me question my understanding of the last expansion draft. Again, if thats the case can't the wild make a deal for Seattle to not choose a player they don't want to lose, like Dumba? Too expensive? how can it be? 2 1st round picks for am absurd example, wouldnt that be more worth it to Seattle AND Minnesota?

 

[Apex Predator]

Either they are going to rebuild or they are going all in for Jack Eichel and building around him with a lot of ELC and league minimum contracts.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t get either of these moves tbh.

a buyout saves them 3.33m on each guy, even employing a min wage player for the next 4yrs to replace them will cost 3m, so they save no money

and the only year they get cap savings is this year (clears like 10m), the next three are negligible when you consider they have 2 roster spots to fill, then 4 years of 1.66m in dead space… are they that desperate for cap space in 2021-22 to hinder themselves for the next several years?

They kept Dumba and another solid forward from expansion, and they opened up spots for their young core. There were good reasons to do it.

 

[bleedgreen]

Its making me question my understanding of the last expansion draft. Again, if thats the case can't the wild make a deal for Seattle to not choose a player they don't want to lose, like Dumba? Too expensive? how can it be? 2 1st round picks for am absurd example, wouldnt that be more worth it to Seattle AND Minnesota?

I would go with a buyout over giving up two first round picks, if the owner doesnt mind spending the money. There are rumors Francis is asking a lot for favors so your cost might not be that far off, I'm sure it wouldve cost at least one.

 

[Manhattan]

Just checking if posting still works on HF after this crash-trigger.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't really think i understand why they did this.

Parise, i can understand. He's pretty much cooked. But Suter is still a player. Could they not have waited a couple years? Are they that desperate for cap relief this year?

With Suter though...if Keith still has some trade value, on a 3 team "list" @ 5.5M x 2 Years...surely Suter is still going to be worth at least $6M to someone for a few years. Right? Idk. Just seems like a huge dirt sandwich to swallow for Minnesota, on a player who is still pretty darn capable. Those years of $14M+ of absolutely dead cap are going to be absolutely murderous, unless the cap substantially rises by then.

 

[HFpapi]

I might be in the small minority, but I think this was a smart move from Minny.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the structure of these buyouts, I see three advantages;

1) Protect Dumba and another forward from the expansion draft
2) Free up 10 mil this season to take a run at Eichel
3) Not really an advantage, but rather mitigates the downside: If an ELC (Boldy for ex) can be as or more productive than Parise in years 3 & 4 of this buyout (the heavy years), they are basically paying the same caphit as they would have for an even more productive player, so it doesn't matter so much. Suter will be harder to replace with an ELC though

 

[ThePsychicSaw]

I would go with a buyout over giving up two first round picks, if the owner doesnt mind spending the money. There are rumors Francis is asking a lot for favors so your cost might not be that far off, I'm sure it wouldve cost at least one.

you wouldnt give up (exaggerated example) 2 1st round picks (potential players) to avoid over 15% of your team cap to be (guaranteed) DEAD CAP for 3 years straight?

granted I think one 1st is way more accurate.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Last time the Wild got bent over a bit in expansion, and this move eliminates that happening again. Between keeping Dumba and opening up spots for the younger core this will likely be a good move in the end. I remember all the smack people talked about Minny after the Staal trade last year, and everyone assumed they would suck. It was time to move on so they did. Get it over with.

Pretty sure they got bent over again... you have 3 years of over $10M+ in dead cap to keep Dumba. That means adding Dumba's cap hit AND Suter and Parise's... I'm not sure that's worth it. I would've traded Dumba, taken the return, and then just continued to eat the Parise/Suter deals personally.

Then you at least have a return for Dumba rather than dead cap space.

 

[Prior]

you wouldnt give up (exaggerated example) 2 1st round picks (potential players) to avoid over 15% of your team cap to be (guaranteed) DEAD CAP for 3 years straight?

granted I think one 1st is way more accurate.

Forgetting that if that player retires, they are then hit with cap recapture. So they still have to account for that cap space.

This is cost certainty.

 

[crowi]

Pretty sure 95% of people will go like, "Parise, yeah, I see it", then the same amount are going to be very surprised Suter was also bought out. It's not just because of impact, just paying like $12-14M for a few years with Kaprizov on the team, it's very VERY surprising.