Proposal: Miller to TOR (again)

[seanlinden]

THAT'S the hill you're gonna die on? Really?...

There is an argument to be made why Liljegren shouldn't be included in a Miller deal -- which is his waiver-exemption. The Leafs have been burned 4 times this year trying to stash an NHL-calibre player in the minors (Brooks x2, Dzingel, Amadio). If Sandin has a permanent spot in the top 6 (seemingly so), stashing Liljegren would enable the Leafs to be 8-deep on D while still carrying an extra forward or two.

I don't think the hill "dies on" Liljegren, but I think if the main prospect / young player is a choice between Robertson & Liljegren; Liljegren probably holds a little more value to the Leafs.

 

[KevinRedkey]

There is an argument to be made why Liljegren shouldn't be included in a Miller deal -- which is his waiver-exemption. The Leafs have been burned 4 times this year trying to stash an NHL-calibre player in the minors (Brooks x2, Dzingel, Amadio). If Sandin has a permanent spot in the top 6 (seemingly so), stashing Liljegren would enable the Leafs to be 8-deep on D while still carrying an extra forward or two.

I don't think the hill "dies on" Liljegren, but I think if the main prospect / young player is a choice between Robertson & Liljegren; Liljegren probably holds a little more value to the Leafs.

Thank you for the explanation. Makes a lot more sense to me now.

 

[Spectrefire]

At the end of the day, there is no other JT Miller equivalent on the market.

- 28 year old center/winger in middle of prime
- Top-10 scoring forward in the NHL
- Can be had for 2 playoff runs at a ludicrous $2.6m cap hit with 50% retained

If there's a team with a win now window, this is THE win now player you can add.

 

[Just a Fan]

At the end of the day, there is no other JT Miller equivalent on the market.

- 28 year old center/winger in middle of prime
- Top-10 scoring forward in the NHL
- Can be had for 2 playoff runs at a ludicrous $2.6m cap hit with 50% retained

If there's a team with a win now window, this is THE win now player you can add.

I won’t speak for other teams, but for the Leafs? Cost is way to high, I hope Dubas doesn’t give it a second thought.

 

[Spectrefire]

I won’t speak for other teams, but for the Leafs? Cost is way to high, I hope Dubas doesn’t give it a second thought.

Dubas doesn't have much breathing room left if the Leafs continue to disappoint in the playoffs.

The main question is how confident is team in believing that THIS group is their best chance in a generation, and whether or not going all in can secure that cup.

If they're certain Miller gets them a cup, then who cares about the future?

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

At the end of the day, there is no other JT Miller equivalent on the market.

- 28 year old center/winger in middle of prime
- Top-10 scoring forward in the NHL
- Can be had for 2 playoff runs at a ludicrous $2.6m cap hit with 50% retained

If there's a team with a win now window, this is THE win now player you can add.

Miller is awsome, and has been great with the nucks. Hes also hit another gear this year which has increased his value so much, I dont think a playoff contender can risk spending all the assets it would require to land Miller. Two years is a solid bonus but not enough to justify the risk of losing all those futures if he doesn't resign. I say his value hits its peak when a team can negotiate and extension with him.

 

[Just a Fan]

Dubas doesn't have much breathing room left if the Leafs continue to disappoint in the playoffs.

The main question is how confident is team in believing that THIS group is their best chance in a generation, and whether or not going all in can secure that cup.

If they're certain Miller gets them a cup, then who cares about the future?

Dubas would seal his fate if he paid the insane asking price on Miller, because he’s not the player that moves the needle enough in TO. He would be on the 2nd line here.
Dubas needs to spend on defence, not 4-5 top assets on a 2nd line winger.

There may be a contender that views Miller as the last piece to the puzzle, that’s not Toronto.

 

[Spectrefire]

I say his value hits its peak when a team can negotiate and extension with him.

I would say now is his peak value. $2.6m for a top line centre is unbelievable value for any cup contender who's spending to the cap.

 

[Just a Fan]

I would say now is his peak value. $2.6m for a top line centre is unbelievable value for any cup contender who's spending to the cap.

What contender is making Miller their top line centre? Toronto isn’t dropping Matthews, doubt it’s Florida….maybe the Rangers?

 

[Byron Bitz]

Title should be “how Toronto can drastically shorten their window of contention”

 

[Holymakinaw]

To VAN:
Nick Robertson
Timothy Liljegren
Pierre Engvall
Topi Niemelä
Ty Voit
1st round pick 2022
2nd round pick 2023

To TOR:
J.T. Miller
Luke Schenn

Aha. So Miller is worth much more than Eichel.

Makes sense.

 

[Mergatroidskittle]

This trade reversed

Hoglander (liljegren)
Podkolzin (robertson)
1st 2022 (niemela)
1st pick 2023 top 15 protected ( 1st pick)
2nd 2023 (2nd pick)
Dickinson (engval)
And depht prospect

For an 1 1/2 of nylander and travis dermott ...

Guess tor fans take after the gm and won’t think about cap hits

 

[Zybalto]

So the Leafs need to gut their future for a #6 dman and a PP guy that would rank here for 5v5 points/60 on the Leafs:

1. Matthews
2. Bunting
3. Marner
4. Kerfoot
5. Tavares
6. Nylander
7. Kase
8. Engvall
9. Miller
10. Simmonds

 

[mydnyte]

To VAN:
Nick Robertson
Timothy Liljegren
Pierre Engvall
Topi Niemelä
Ty Voit
1st round pick 2022
2nd round pick 2023

To TOR:
J.T. Miller
Luke Schenn

geez, Schenn doesnt even make it into our lineup on the bottom pairing

J.T. isnt the type of player either you break the bank for, he had ONE good playoff run, and other than ONE season that, didnt do much at all, so, its not like he's a playoff warrior, and he certainly isnt a Power Forward, or a Physical presence. He's good, but, an asset we dont need, and we need our young and cheap assets for the future, not one more season of extra cap crunch.

also, this is WAY more than any team has paid to acquire Miller in his career

 

[TheDoldrums]

So the Leafs need to gut their future for a #6 dman and a PP guy that would rank here for 5v5 points/60 on the Leafs:

1. Matthews
2. Bunting
3. Marner
4. Kerfoot
5. Tavares
6. Nylander
7. Kase
8. Engvall
9. Miller
10. Simmonds

Well surely his special teams contributions would be worth emptying the cupboards for here.

...Wait, I'm being told the Leafs already have the best special teams in the league. Well this is awkward, seems like a terrible fit! The forward the Leafs should be targeting is a strong 5v5 play driver to help the Tavares line, especially someone who excels at finishing since the Leafs seem to have that issue every postseason. There are undoubtedly cheaper and/or better fits out there.

 

[mydnyte]

THAT'S the hill you're gonna die on? Really?...

not even the hill I'd be trying to climb.
last season i wanted the Leafs to go after Austin Watson, but, then he got hurt. ...this is the 'type' of player the leafs need. a tough guy who can play higher then the 4th line, even if its only on the 3rd line

 

[mydnyte]

This trade reversed

Hoglander (liljegren)
Podkolzin (robertson)
1st 2022 (niemela)
1st pick 2023 top 15 protected ( 1st pick)
2nd 2023 (2nd pick)
Dickinson (engval)
And depht prospect

For an 1 1/2 of nylander and travis dermott ...

except that Miller is a few years older, and not as good as Nylander

 

[Habs Halifax]

except that Miller is a few years older, and not as good as Nylander

I'm not sure about that one. Younger yes but Miller is a very good player that holds his own no matter who is his playing with. Nylander has the reliable Tavares. Not saying Nylander sucks but you probably look at the stats to prove that is is better but it don't really work that way. Only difference is age. Both are very good top 6 assets.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Alternative opinion from a Habs fan...
* Futures the Canucks want for Miller will be high. I'm thinking Toffoli and better.
* Would the Canucks be willing to take those futures (better than what Toffoli got) but also take Mrazek and send Halak the other way?

Just an idea cause I think that will be the approach Dubas takes. What are the futures? I'll let you guys decide that

 

[4thline]

Who was the last rental+1 forward to be traded? Stone and Pacioretty were full season + extension so not really comparable.

Last big rental+1's I can think of were Muzzin and McDonagh.
Muzzin 1st + Grundstrom + Durzi (two recent 2nd's tracking well, B+/A- type prospects)
McDonagh 1st + Howden + Hajek + 2nd (conditional 1st) (an additional pick, Howden a straight A type, Hajek a B+/A-)

Miller should be somewhere between those prices. Leaf's Knies and Niemela don't have the draft pedigree of Howden and Hajek, but are performing a clear step above.

 

[AvatarAang]

There is an argument to be made why Liljegren shouldn't be included in a Miller deal -- which is his waiver-exemption. The Leafs have been burned 4 times this year trying to stash an NHL-calibre player in the minors (Brooks x2, Dzingel, Amadio). If Sandin has a permanent spot in the top 6 (seemingly so), stashing Liljegren would enable the Leafs to be 8-deep on D while still carrying an extra forward or two.

I don't think the hill "dies on" Liljegren, but I think if the main prospect / young player is a choice between Robertson & Liljegren; Liljegren probably holds a little more value to the Leafs.

What a refreshing post after reading a bunch of whiny canucks/leafs fans argue over the value of miller.

 

[cneely]

At the end of the day, there is no other JT Miller equivalent on the market.

- 28 year old center/winger in middle of prime
- Top-10 scoring forward in the NHL
- Can be had for 2 playoff runs at a ludicrous $2.6m cap hit with 50% retained

If there's a team with a win now window, this is THE win now player you can add.

No he's not a top 10 scorer, lol.

Mcdavid, Drai, Kucherov, Panarin, Mackinnon, Mathews, Rantanen, Marchand, Huberdeau, Marner, Barkov, Aho, Crosby, Kane, Ovechkin..

There's 15 who are more prolific than Miller. He's good. He's not a top 10 scoring forward.

 

[Just a Fan]

Alternative opinion from a Habs fan...
* Futures the Canucks want for Miller will be high. I'm thinking Toffoli and better.
* Would the Canucks be willing to take those futures (better than what Toffoli got) but also take Mrazek and send Halak the other way?

Just an idea cause I think that will be the approach Dubas takes. What are the futures? I'll let you guys decide that

It wouldn't matter, because Dubas isn't trading the futures the Canucks would want for Miller....

 

[Habs Halifax]

It wouldn't matter, because Dubas isn't trading the futures the Canucks would want for Miller....

Very possible but I would not throw the cap challenges Dubas will have this summer under the rug.

What's your personal plan to create better cap flexibility and off loading Mrazek? Easy or difficult?

 

[Just a Fan]

Very possible but I would not throw the cap challenges Dubas will have this summer under the rug.

What's your personal plan to create better cap flexibility and off loading Mrazek? Easy or difficult?

Depends on what Campbell signs for....but again, next seasons cap isn't a reason to stupidly overpay for Miller. Why are you so convinced Dubas would be willing to deal Mrazek for a guy like Halak, who's barely played....while heading to the playoffs?