Friedman: Miller extension unlikely with Canucks, timeline doesnt fit, and trade offers are going to be too good to pass up

[EverTheCynic]

a player who was a top 20 pick recently drafted who is a prospect or on an ELC

teams are not giving that up For rentals

Miller isn’t a rental for Boston. He’s a replacement for Bergeron.

They have spent so many futures that they can’t realistically rebuild right now. They have some years left to compete, and Bergeron is retiring. Miller extends their window for another 4-5 years, which is exactly what they want and need.

If Bergeron wants another year, they still want Miller. With 50% salary and moving Carlo in the deal, they fit under the cap with room to spare.

Why would you think he would be a rental? Boston would be allowed to negotiate with Miller prior to any trade. And if they couldn’t come to terms on a contract extension, they would look elsewhere.

 

[UrbanImpact]

How has Carlo been for Boston?

I know he has dealt with many injuries before and stalled a bit with his development.

Stylistically , he would be an excellent Defensive partner for Hughes, I'm just not sure if Canucks management is high on him.

IF they are,

I can see a foundation trade of

Miller ( extendended) for Lysell, Carlo.

 

[EverTheCynic]

How has Carlo been for Boston?

I know he has dealt with many injuries before and stalled a bit with his development.

Stylistically , he would be an excellent Defensive partner for Hughes, I'm just not sure if Canucks management is high on him.

IF they are,

I can see a foundation trade of

Miller ( extendended) for Lysell, Carlo.

Lysell and Carlo isn’t enough for Miller. Don’t let Bruins fans trick you. Even though Carlo is valuable to us, he’s a cap dump to them. And Lysell is trending well, but far from a sure fire impact player in the NHL. For all we know he’s the next Ty Rattie.

They need to add to Lysell and Carlo to get Miller.

 

[Dizzay]

Lysell and Carlo isn’t enough for Miller. Don’t let Bruins fans trick you. Even though Carlo is valuable to us, he’s a cap dump to them. And Lysell is trending well, but far from a sure fire impact player in the NHL. For all we know he’s the next Ty Rattie.

They need to add to Lysell and Carlo to get Miller.

Brandon Carlo is not a cap dump by any means. He's a high end #3 dman on basically every team in the NHL and is signed to a very cap friendly salary for a number of years. Zero chance Bruins trade Lysell and Carlo for Miller who's been moved out of every city he's been in.

 

[EverTheCynic]

Brandon Carlo is not a cap dump by any means. He's a high end #3 dman on basically every team in the NHL and is signed to a very cap friendly salary for a number of years. Zero chance Bruins trade Lysell and Carlo for Miller who's been moved out of every city he's been in.

He’s a shutdown D who doesn’t provide any offence or transition ability. That is not a #3. A #3 is the guy who carries the second pairing, and a low mobility shut down defender with limited offensive production is not that

He’s valuable to us because he’s a career partner for Hughes. You could find a veteran on a cheaper contract in FA that would provide greater output than Carlo.

Carlo made sense for you guys when you had Krug. But you don’t anymore. He’s redundancy for you. He didn’t blossom into the two way guy you had hoped, and now he doesn’t really fit or make sense on your back end. His production honestly could be replicated and exceeded by a FA veteran on a cheap short term contract.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Lysell and Carlo isn’t enough for Miller. Don’t let Bruins fans trick you. Even though Carlo is valuable to us, he’s a cap dump to them. And Lysell is trending well, but far from a sure fire impact player in the NHL. For all we know he’s the next Ty Rattie.

They need to add to Lysell and Carlo to get Miller.

Thats why i said the foundation of the trade.

I also dont know if Lysell is a Rutherford/Allvin guy because all they ever say is they want to add "big, fast, skilled players"

Lysell being 5'9 - 5'10 is far from that.

Just look at how there have been reports that Garland is available and that Rutherford/Allvin dont see Garland as a core piece cuz of the size.

 

[PlayMakers]

Alright so Carlo, Lysell and some variation of a third piece seems like it's not being overly shot down by either fanbase.

Genuine question, why is a guy like Carlo available?

I don't think Carlo is "available." I just think the Bruins may be forced to do something they don't want to do (give up Carlo or Grzelcyk) to serve a bigger need, which is a #1c. It's more of a "have to give to get" scenario than the Bruins shopping Carlo.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Brandon Carlo is not a cap dump by any means. He's a high end #3 dman on basically every team in the NHL and is signed to a very cap friendly salary for a number of years. Zero chance Bruins trade Lysell and Carlo for Miller who's been moved out of every city he's been in.

lol what does being moved out of every city hes been in suppose to imply? that he is a bad teammate or terrible in the locker room?

because as a Canuck fan i can tell you that couldnt be further from the truth.

Miller is a huge Alpha and a leader in the locker room.

If he is moved, it is strictly for contract purposes and his age compared to the competitive and core window of the team.

Tampa moved him for cap purposes as well.

 

[EverTheCynic]

I don't think Carlo is "available." I just think the Bruins may be forced to do something they don't want to do (give up Carlo or Grzelcyk) to serve a bigger need, which is a #1c. It's more of a "have to give to get" scenario than the Bruins shopping Carlo.

I mean, let’s be honest. Carlo has had a hard time fitting in on your back end ever since you moved on from Krug, yes?

It’s not that he’s a bad or ineffective player. Clearly given how us Canucks fans want him. But he needs the right partner, and doesn’t have that in Boston anymore. He needs a highly mobile puck mover on his line to get the most out of him.

Am I off? You guys would know better. I’m open to your insight.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I don't think Carlo is "available." I just think the Bruins may be forced to do something they don't want to do (give up Carlo or Grzelcyk) to serve a bigger need, which is a #1c. It's more of a "have to give to get" scenario than the Bruins shopping Carlo.

There isnt going to be too many 1C available,

Canucks can possibly make 1 of Horvat or Miller available but the return would be massively more than Carlo or Gryezcyk and I just dont know if the Bruins have the prospects to make it happen.

Lysel and Beecher being their only positional 1st round pick since Mcavoy in 2016.

A wild card asset might be the 2023 1st round pick (unprotected)

Though i highly doubt the Bruins would gamble that with Marchand hurt and Bergeron possibly retiring.

I think that would peak the interest of the Canucks though if they wanted a #1C

2023 1st round pick (unproteced)
Carlo
2022 2nd round pick

Canucks get another lottery ball for Bedard/Michov and hope that Bruins hit bottom in the season. They also get their guy in Carlo to partner with Hughes.

Boston gambles, and if they make the playoffs then this becomes a massive steal for them getting Miller for a late 1st, Carlo and a 2nd.

 

[PlayMakers]

I mean, let’s be honest. Carlo has had a hard time fitting in on your back end ever since you moved on from Krug, yes?

It’s not that he’s a bad or ineffective player. Clearly given how us Canucks fans want him. But he needs the right partner, and doesn’t have that in Boston anymore. He needs a highly mobile puck mover on his line to get the most out of him.

Am I off? You guys would know better. I’m open to your insight.

No, I would not say that’s not accurate.

He was excellent last year, and excellent in the playoffs until he got hurt. He played with a variety of partners last year including two rookies, and Grzelcyk at times. When Reilly was aquired he was put with Carlo and they were as good as Gryz-McAvoy down the stretch and in the first round. He got concussed in the second round.

This season he’s been inconsistent. He’s usually an effective breakout passer and this year, especially at the start of the season, he was making horrible passes and just looked off. Some folks think it was PCS, I don’t know. When McAvoy went down he elevated his game and was back to vintage Carlo for the most part, but then didn’t look quite as good in the playoffs. Most Bruins fans blame that on Grzelcyk but I think it was more that they were paired with the Haula line and they were completely caved in by the Canes matchup. Grzelcyk was also playing with a dislocated shoulder for 6 months so a lot of surrounding issues going on as well.

Long story short, not his best season but still a difference maker for Boston and not a player they are interested in moving. There is talk from the media that the B’s might move Gryz or Reilly but nothing on Carlo. The Carlo talk is all fan generated and strictly of the give to get variety.

 

[BB88]

Lysell and Carlo isn’t enough for Miller. Don’t let Bruins fans trick you. Even though Carlo is valuable to us, he’s a cap dump to them. And Lysell is trending well, but far from a sure fire impact player in the NHL. For all we know he’s the next Ty Rattie.

They need to add to Lysell and Carlo to get Miller.

Get out of here with that rubbish

Miller being 29y one year from UFA market will drop his price, whether it’s sign or trade or just rental.

 

[UrbanImpact]

As much as Carlo would be possibly be a great fit with Hughes, he just comes with red flags that the Canucks cant gamble on when it comes to trading their biggest asset in 20 yrs.

In trading Miller, Canucks need to go for sure fire prospects and or young players. Carlo's concussion and injuries is just too big of a gamble.

 

[EverTheCynic]

No, I would not say that’s not accurate.

He was excellent last year, and excellent in the playoffs until he got hurt. He played with a variety of partners last year including two rookies, and Grzelcyk at times. When Reilly was aquired he was put with Carlo and they were as good as Gryz-McAvoy down the stretch and in the first round. He got concussed in the second round.

This season he’s been inconsistent. He’s usually an effective breakout passer and this year, especially at the start of the season, he was making horrible passes and just looked off. Some folks think it was PCS, I don’t know. When McAvoy went down he elevated his game and was back to vintage Carlo for the most part, but then didn’t look quite as good in the playoffs. Most Bruins fans blame that on Grzelcyk but I think it was more that they were paired with the Haula line and they were completely caved in by the Canes matchup. Grzelcyk was also playing with a dislocated shoulder for 6 months so a lot of surrounding issues going on as well.

Long story short, not his best season but still a difference maker for Boston and not a player they are interested in moving. There is talk from the media that the B’s might move Gryz or Reilly but nothing on Carlo. The Carlo talk is all fan generated and strictly if the give to get variety.

Interesting stuff.

I guess my take was off. I had always assumed that since Krug left, Carlo just hasn’t reached those same heights as earlier in his career. When he was playing with one of the better puck movers in the league.

 

[Cogburn]

As much as Carlo would be possibly be a great fit with Hughes, he just comes with red flags that the Canucks cant gamble on when it comes to trading their biggest asset in 20 yrs.

In trading Miller, Canucks need to go for sure fire prospects and or young players. Carlo's concussion and injuries is just too big of a gamble.

I'm happy to take a flyer on Carlo. Yes, there are issues, but he is exactly what we need.

That said, a number three D (as described by Boston fans), without said red flags, isn't worth close to a 1C, which is what Vancouver is giving up and Boston is receiving here, in Miller.

I'd be looking at a trade of Carlo, Lysell and Boston's 2023 1st round pick as a base, more likely with something else included coming Vancouver's way if other teams are offering similar packages. DeBrusk, Beecher or a second would be the ante here. If it's too rich, I get it, and Malkin, Giroux or Kadri could be available as a top six centers as UFAs, but I'd have to imagine that their cap hits would necessitate other roster moves and cap dumps.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Why Lysell over 2023 first? It seems like Vancouver is pretty set at RW and the Bruins do need the help at RW with DeBrusk wanting out and Smith being a year from UFA and getting to be over the hill. Is it just because y’all followed the Giants playoff run?

Hey I'm open to another piece - if you have one suggest it but we will be looking for a RHD and a prospect - one of which is a roster player already...........the pieces fit value wise however if you have someone else to suggest by all means do so.

 

[wintersej]

I'm happy to take a flyer on Carlo. Yes, there are issues, but he is exactly what we need.

That said, a number three D (as described by Boston fans), without said red flags, isn't worth close to a 1C, which is what Vancouver is giving up and Boston is receiving here, in Miller.

I'd be looking at a trade of Carlo, Lysell and Boston's 2023 1st round pick as a base, more likely with something else included coming Vancouver's way if other teams are offering similar packages. DeBrusk, Beecher or a second would be the ante here. If it's too rich, I get it, and Malkin, Giroux or Kadri could be available as a top six centers as UFAs, but I'd have to imagine that their cap hits would necessitate other roster moves and cap dumps.

One is 25 and signed long term and one needs a new contract that won't start until he is 30. ZERO ZERO ZERO interest in doing Carlo and emptying the farm. It comes down to this. If Vancouver is looking for a package heavy on futures look elsewhere. The package you are describing would be the biggest package for any player in decades. Good luck.

 

[BWJM]

a player who was a top 20 pick recently drafted who is a prospect or on an ELC

teams are not giving that up For rentals

Yes they do..... It's called being in "win now" mode.

 

[wintersej]

How about this out of left field:

BOS: Miller + OEL (1 million retained)
VAN: 2023 1st + Lorhei + Coyle

Vancouver gets a first and Boston's 2nd best prospect. Lorhei is 6'4" offense first D who converted from forward just a few years ago and is still learning the D side of the game and filling out his frame. A few years away, but size + skill. They get a #3C with the size the team is looking for and come out of the deal with an extra 6 million bucks in cap space...and more importantly out from under the OEL deal that could really hurt when they hit their window.

Boston leaves with a first line C, a crazy good D group in Lindholm, OEL, McAvoy and Carlo, and their window still open. They are also left with a potentially very scary cap situation in a few years as Lindholm, OEL and Miller get older.

Bruins would need to send out DeBrusk + two of Reilly/Gryz/Forbort for picks. Their bottom six forward group would be duct taped together with kids and would be even more so duct taped together with kids going forward as they would have to let Nosek, Haula, Foligno and Smith walk to afford raises for Miller and Pasta next offseason.

 

[wintersej]

Interesting stuff.

I guess my take was off. I had always assumed that since Krug left, Carlo just hasn’t reached those same heights as earlier in his career. When he was playing with one of the better puck movers in the league.

I respect that poster a lot and agree with him more often than not. I think the difference is that some people see when Carlo pulls it together for stretches as the real Carlo and some people see that as him on a heater. I admit, that the 2nd half of 2020-21 and for stretches of the 2nd half of this past season, he was as good as described. But, he also hasn't been as good as those periods more often than not in the two years since Krug left (and his performance in these past playoffs is fresh, albeit playing with an injured partner).

 

[BronxBruin]

Bruins make a lot of sense for Miller but only with an extension in place. However with Pastrnak and Swayman needing new contracts after next season, can the Bruins even afford to extend Miller? They have a lot of contracts expiring but those roster spots still need to be filled. They currently only have 4 regular forwards signed for 23-24 (and one of them is Debrusk). Maybe they could pull it off by going young in the bottom 6 but that is not how Boston has typically operated.

 

[EverTheCynic]

How about this out of left field:

BOS: Miller + OEL (1 million retained)
VAN: 2023 1st + Lorhei + Coyle

Vancouver gets a first and Boston's 2nd best prospect. Lorhei is 6'4" offense first D who converted from forward just a few years ago and is still learning the D side of the game and filling out his frame. A few years away, but size + skill. They get a #3C with the size the team is looking for and come out of the deal with an extra 6 million bucks in cap space...and more importantly out from under the OEL deal that could really hurt when they hit their window.

Boston leaves with a first line C, a crazy good D group in Lindholm, OEL, McAvoy and Carlo, and their window still open. They are also left with a potentially very scary cap situation in a few years as Lindholm, OEL and Miller get older.

Bruins would need to send out DeBrusk + two of Reilly/Gryz/Forbort for picks. Their bottom six forward group would be duct taped together with kids and would be even more so duct taped together with kids going forward as they would have to let Nosek, Haula, Foligno and Smith walk to afford raises for Miller and Pasta next offseason.

Carlo is the guy we want. The rest is just getting the value up to meet a #1C. How do you feel about this?

Miller
2nd 2023

For

Carlo
Lysell
1st 2023

We are gonna be bad next year. Those picks could very well end up being within 10 spots of one another.

I agree Carlo, Lysell and the 1st is too much for an extended Miller. But I feel this deal works for both teams. You get you 1C and only drop a few spots in the draft.

 

[Cogburn]

One is 25 and signed long term and one needs a new contract that won't start until he is 30. ZERO ZERO ZERO interest in doing Carlo and emptying the farm. It comes down to this. If Vancouver is looking for a package heavy on futures look elsewhere. The package you are describing would be the biggest package for any player in decades. Good luck.

A top four D, a B winger prospect and a late (I'd imagine) first is not some kind of generational return, and for a (presumably retained) 99 point center. That isn't even the biggest package this year, let alone "in decades", and adding a second, or equivalent asset, isn't making that return the biggest in decades either.

I understand the relative value, as we are pretty limited in our prospect selection too, but Klimovich or Rathbone aren't top prospects simply because they are our top prospects. Our 15th overall pick isn't worth more because we have traded our previous first round picks the last two years and need to restock.

If it's too rich, as I said, I wish Boston well with the UFA route, as there are at least options for 1C that could be available this year.

 

[Peter Griffin]

How about this out of left field:

BOS: Miller + OEL (1 million retained)
VAN: 2023 1st + Lorhei + Coyle

Vancouver gets a first and Boston's 2nd best prospect. Lorhei is 6'4" offense first D who converted from forward just a few years ago and is still learning the D side of the game and filling out his frame. A few years away, but size + skill. They get a #3C with the size the team is looking for and come out of the deal with an extra 6 million bucks in cap space...and more importantly out from under the OEL deal that could really hurt when they hit their window.

Boston leaves with a first line C, a crazy good D group in Lindholm, OEL, McAvoy and Carlo, and their window still open. They are also left with a potentially very scary cap situation in a few years as Lindholm, OEL and Miller get older.

Bruins would need to send out DeBrusk + two of Reilly/Gryz/Forbort for picks. Their bottom six forward group would be duct taped together with kids and would be even more so duct taped together with kids going forward as they would have to let Nosek, Haula, Foligno and Smith walk to afford raises for Miller and Pasta next offseason.

Coyle/OEL swap isn’t a win for Vancouver,
especially with Vancouver retaining $1M on OEL. So at best, it’s a 1st and decent prospect for Miller. Pass. That trade would actually be a HUGE win for Boston in the short term so I can see why you suggested it.

 

[wintersej]

Carlo is the guy we want. The rest is just getting the value up to meet a #1C. How do you feel about this?

Miller
2nd 2023

For

Carlo
Lysell
1st 2023

We are gonna be bad next year. Those picks could very well end up being within 10 spots of one another.

I agree Carlo, Lysell and the 1st is too much for an extended Miller. But I feel this deal works for both teams. You get you 1C and only drop a few spots in the draft.

Lysell is just so hard for Boston to give up. Sweeney has said he will go pro next year and the Bruins RW depth after Pasta is:

DeBrusk (wants out)
Smith (one year left until UFA and the injuries are starting to catch up to him)
Steen (rookie with bottom six potential)
Wagner (spent all year in AHL)

Bruins would be making this deal to win now. Losing Carlo puts the D group in disarray, but maybe that is worth it. If you also put the forward group in disarray what have you really accomplished?