Friedman: Miller extension unlikely with Canucks, timeline doesnt fit, and trade offers are going to be too good to pass up

[wintersej]

A top four D, a B winger prospect and a late (I'd imagine) first is not some kind of generational return, and for a (presumably retained) 99 point center. That isn't even the biggest package this year, let alone "in decades", and adding a second, or equivalent asset, isn't making that return the biggest in decades either.

I understand the relative value, as we are pretty limited in our prospect selection too, but Klimovich or Rathbone aren't top prospects simply because they are our top prospects. Our 15th overall pick isn't worth more because we have traded our previous first round picks the last two years and need to restock.

If it's too rich, as I said, I wish Boston well with the UFA route, as there are at least options for 1C that could be available this year.

If Miller breaks 90 points again I'll eat the costume in my profile pic.

 

[EverTheCynic]

Lysell is just so hard for Boston to give up. Sweeney has said he will go pro next year and the Bruins RW depth after Pasta is:

DeBrusk (wants out)
Smith (one year left until UFA and the injuries are starting to catch up to him)
Steen (rookie with bottom six potential)
Wagner (spent all year in AHL)

Bruins would be making this deal to win now. Losing Carlo puts the D group in disarray, but maybe that is worth it. If you also put the forward group in disarray what have you really accomplished?

Any interest in Garland? We could swap Garland for Debrusk. He’s young and locked up.
That way you’re not left with a massive hole if Debrusk demands a trade or something.

More of a side deal, but part of the package I guess. So it would be

Miller
Garland
2nd 2023

For

Carlo
Debrusk
Lysell
1st 2023

??? You guys would like Garland. He’s a little dude who plays like a big dude.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Any interest in Garland? We could swap Garland for Debrusk. He’s young and locked up.
That way you’re not left with a massive hole if Debrusk demands a trade or something.

More of a side deal, but part of the package I guess. So it would be

Miller
Garland
2nd 2023

For

Carlo
Debrusk
Lysell
1st 2023

??? You guys would like Garland. He’s a little dude who plays like a big dude.

This is awful for Vancouver.

 

[Cogburn]

If Miller breaks 90 points again I'll eat the costume in my profile pic.

What about if Carlo develops any further then he has already?

Even if Miller doesn't, and repeats his worst season as a Canuck, he's still a 70ish point (pacing during a covid shortened year), all situation first line forward. They aren't acquired cheaply.

Any interest in Garland? We could swap Garland for Debrusk. He’s young and locked up.
That way you’re not left with a massive hole if Debrusk demands a trade or something.

More of a side deal, but part of the package I guess. So it would be

Miller
Garland
2nd 2023

For

Carlo
Debrusk
Lysell
1st 2023

??? You guys would like Garland. He’s a little dude who plays like a big dude.

I'd prefer to keep Garland over Debrusk, personally.

 

[EverTheCynic]

This is awful for Vancouver.

It’s basically Miller and a 2nd for Carlo Lysell and a 1st, and as a separate trade Debrusk for Garland

I don’t see how that’s bad for us. I’m happy with it :/

 

[Peter Griffin]

It’s basically Miller and a 2nd for Carlo Lysell and a 1st, and as a separate trade Debrusk for Garland.

I don’t see how that’s bad for us at all. I’m happy with it :/

The fact you’re ok with swapping Garland for Debrusk tells me all I need to know.

That said, I don’t like the whole Carlo as the centerpiece of any Miller trade, or Lysell as the prospect anyway.

I think Boston is a fit for Miller, I just don’t see how swapping Miller for Carlo and Lysell makes us a better team down the line.

 

[Diamonddog01]

If Miller breaks 90 points again I'll eat the costume in my profile pic.

Appreciate your write-up on Carlo - if your RW depth is poor what about Garland for Carlo straight up? Garland is a great ES producer and from MA.

 

[EverTheCynic]

The fact you’re ok with swapping Garland for Debrusk tells me all I need to know.

I’m not big on Garland here. He does way too much. He will blow his energy in the Ozone with all sorts of unnecessary theatrics and spins and be dead tired 10 seconds into the shift. Which leaves him useless coming back the other way.

I don’t hate the idea of swapping him for a guy who plays a simpler, more responsible game. It’s not like he a part of our future anyways, or has a ton of value. The whole trade was just awful and nonsensical. I mean, Garland might be the worst defensive player I’ve ever seen in a Canucks jersey.

 

[Lawzy]

I’m not big on Garland here. He does way too much. He will blow his energy in the Ozone with all sorts of unnecessary theatrics and spins and be dead tired 10 seconds into the shift. Which leaves him useless coming back the other way.

I don’t hate the idea of swapping him for a guy who plays a simpler, more responsible game. It’s not like he a part of our future anyways, or has a ton of value. The whole trade was just awful and nonsensical. I mean, Garland might be the worst defensive player I’ve ever seen in a Canucks jersey.

Lmao, this is one of the worst takes I have ever seen on this website. Thank god you are not a part of the Canucks management.

(Pretty sure I'm being trolled)

 

[EverTheCynic]

Lmao, this is one of the worst takes I have ever seen on this website. Thank god you are not a part of the Canucks management.

(Pretty sure I'm being trolled)

I mean, a guy isn’t allowed to not be fond of someone’s game?

If Garland pulled it back -20% I’d have no problem with him. But he plays 100% effort in the Ozone and 30% in the Dzone. And almost always because he’s tired after doing his jitterbug thing up the ice.

He doesn’t need to do all that. He’s got the moves for when he needs them. He can pull them out of his back pocket whenever.

But you need to be responsible in the NHL. That’s why you don’t see all players doing what he does. Going apeshit ham in the offensive zone 100% full speed every shift.

He’s gotta pull it back a bit

 

[Lawzy]

I mean, a guy isn’t allowed to not be fond of someone’s game?

If Garland pulled it back -20% I’d have no problem with him. But he plays 100% effort in the Ozone and 30% in the Dzone. And almost always because he’s tired after doing his jitterbug thing up the ice.

He doesn’t need to do all that. He’s got the moves for when he needs them. He can pull them out of his back pocket whenever.

But you need to be responsible in the NHL. That’s why you don’t see all players doing what he does. Going apeshit ham in the offensive zone 100% full speed every shift.

He’s gotta pull it back a bit

You are absolutely welcome to dislike a player. What you are not welcome to do is flat out lie about said player.

Among Canuck forwards (2021-2022):

Strength	5v5	All
SA/60	2nd	3rd
GA/60	8th	5th
xGA/60	5th	5th
SCA/60	4th	4th
HDGA/60	5th	4th
On-Ice SV%	11th	9th
Def. Zone Starts/60	7th	11th

The kid isn't going to win any Selke's but he is far from poor defensively let alone him possibly being "the worst defensive player I’ve ever seen in a Canucks jersey". If that is your opinion, you need to get your eyes checked, son.

Given that his 100% effort in the Ozone has led him to being by far our most effective offensive player 5v5, I wonder what his defensive play would look like if he gave more than "30% effort".

Even if you were correct, the Canucks were among the worst in the league at scoring 5v5 (23rd) and among the best in the league at preventing goals (3rd) so I think I'm pretty okay with his effort considering how little he played on the PK and PP.

 

[EverTheCynic]

You are absolutely welcome to dislike a player. What you are not welcome to do is flat out lie about said player.

Among Canuck forwards (2021-2022):

Strength	5v5	All
SA/60	2nd	3rd
GA/60	8th	5th
xGA/60	5th	5th
SCA/60	4th	4th
HDGA/60	5th	4th
On-Ice SV%	11th	9th
Def. Zone Starts/60	7th	11th

The kid isn't going to win any Selke's but he is far from poor defensively let alone him possibly being "the worst defensive player I’ve ever seen in a Canucks jersey". If that is your opinion, you need to get your eyes checked, son.

Given that his 100% effort in the Ozone has led him to being by far our most effective offensive player 5v5, I wonder what his defensive play would look like if gave more than "30% effort".

You can’t defend when you have nothing left in the tank.

The guy needs to chill a bit. That’s all. The puck moves faster than your legs. Play smarter, move the legs less. The guy looks like he’s on PCP chasing the puck around in the Ozone. You can go all out for sure, but constantly being PCP guy just isn’t the way.

I think he would be a much better player if he pulled it back a little. Offensively and defensively. I think he would be surprised at how much things would open up for him if he slowed down a little.

That’s my take. I was perhaps being a little hyperbolic. But I’m not super fond of the player with what I’ve seen. Guy needs about 20% chill

 

[Lawzy]

You can’t defend when you have nothing left in the tank.

The guy needs to chill a bit. That’s all. The puck moves faster than your legs. Play smarter, move the legs less. The guy looks like he’s on PCP chasing the puck around in the Ozone. You can go all out for sure, but constantly being PCP guy just isn’t the way.

I think he would be a much better player if he pulled it back a little. I think he would be surprised at how much things would open up for him if he slowed down a little.

That’s my take. I was perhaps being a little hyperbolic. But I’m not super fond of the player with what I’ve seen. Guy needs about 20% chill

Then how come he did? Hint: You're assessment is incorrect.

I don't even fully disagree with your take that he's fairly chaotic in the offensive zone (one could argue this is a strength as much as a weakness) but statistically that didn't seem to cause him to struggle defensively.

The Canucks were STARVED for offense 5v5 and great defensively. If anything, you want Garland to play exactly the way you are suggesting he did (considering the stats he put up doing so).

 

[EverTheCynic]

Then how come he did? Hint: You're assessment is incorrect.

I don't even fully disagree with your take that he's fairly chaotic in the offensive zone (one could argue this is a strength as much as a weakness) but statistically, that didn't seem to cause him to struggle defensively.

The Canucks were STARVED for offense 5v5 and great defensively. If anything, you want Garland to play exactly the way you are suggesting he did (considering the stats he put up doing so).

Just chase the puck less. I’m not talking about chasing after a dump, or battling in the corner. Just the all out bull in a China shop chasing the puck is not an efficient use of energy.

Energy is a finite resource. Using it efficiently and intelligently matters. I do not think he is efficient with his energy. I think if just had about 20% chill, he’d contribute even more. Both ends. I think his offence would improve.

And yeah, statistically he was fine defensively. So you can very much say I’m not on base. But I dunno. I didn’t like what I saw, personally.

I just genuinely believe he needs to calm down a little. See the game more instead of running after it.

 

[Lawzy]

Just chase the puck less. I’m not talking about chasing after a dump, or battling in the corner. Just the all out bull in a China shop chasing the puck is not an efficient use of energy.

Energy is a finite resource. Using it efficiently and intelligently matters. I do not think he is efficient with his energy. I think if just had about 20% chill, he’d contribute even more. Both ends. I think his offence would improve.

And yeah, statistically he was fine defensively. So you can very much say I’m not on base. But I dunno. I didn’t like what I saw, personally.

I just genuinely believe he needs to calm down a little. See the game more instead of running after it.

Fair enough. I could see a world where that benefits a player like Garland. Perhaps we shall see.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I never thought I’d see a player being criticized for having a high motor, but, here we are.

If there’s anything to critique with Garland it’s his muffin of a shot.

 

[Rowlet]

Appreciate your write-up on Carlo - if your RW depth is poor what about Garland for Carlo straight up? Garland is a great ES producer and from MA.

Garland is too cheap to trade realistically. The Canucks window starts in 2 years when all this garbage cap is off the books so they should look to trade longer term cap hits like Pearson or Dickinson for higher cap hit players with one year left.

If Miller breaks 90 points again I'll eat the costume in my profile pic.

He has 217 points in 202 games as a Canuck. 72 pts in 69 in 19-20, 46 in 53 in 20-21, and 99 in 80 in 21-22. That's an 88 pt pace over the course of his career as a Canuck. 90 is certainly within reach.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Dubas needs to be in on this even if it is just a 1 season rental espically if he can be had at 2.65 million

Doobler is on a short leash before his April 2023 firing, he sure has wasted a lot of the Leafs’ 1st round picks to date though.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Garland is too cheap to trade realistically. The Canucks window starts in 2 years when all this garbage cap is off the books so they should look to trade longer term cap hits like Pearson or Dickinson for higher cap hit players with one year left.

I have a feeling he gets moved as there’s too much smoke around the Canucks moving a RW. Boeser’s contract situation complicates things. There are other moving pieces such as Kuzmenko and/or getting another RW back in a Miller trade but I think Garland will be the odd man out. I don’t agree with it (just as I don’t agree with moving Miller over Horvat) but I suspect it’s what will happen.

 

[kcunac]

Carlo makes sense as part of a deal for Miller. DeBrusk as well is more problematic as Van is trying to shed salary in the deal, especially ahead of a likely (if Miller is traded) extension for Horvat for 23-24. Plus we would already have Garland, PodK, Hoglander, Boeser and maybe even Kuzmenko vying top top 6/9 time. No saying those players bring what DeBrusk does, only that if DeBrusk is involved then it’s part of a bigger deal with a guy like Garland or (hopefully) OEL coming back

 

[HockeyWooot]

Would the Canes be a potential suitor after bouncing out again? They’ve proven to be aggressive.

 

[wintersej]

A top four D, a B winger prospect and a late (I'd imagine) first is not some kind of generational return, and for a (presumably retained) 99 point center. That isn't even the biggest package this year, let alone "in decades", and adding a second, or equivalent asset, isn't making that return the biggest in decades either.

I understand the relative value, as we are pretty limited in our prospect selection too, but Klimovich or Rathbone aren't top prospects simply because they are our top prospects. Our 15th overall pick isn't worth more because we have traded our previous first round picks the last two years and need to restock.

If it's too rich, as I said, I wish Boston well with the UFA route, as there are at least options for 1C that could be available this year.

Yeah I misread your post as AND DeBrusk AND Beecher AND a 2nd. My bad. I think we are at that shoulder shrug point. There is probably something involving Carlo+ that could be worked out, but if we agree on something another Bruins or Canucks fan (or both) will come in and disagree. I personally would do Carlo + 1st + non-Lysell prospect whether Bergeron is back or not. Beyond that, Bergeron’s choice just effects the calculus way too much. Losing Bergeron and replacing him with Miller AND sacrificing a major roster player AND the Bruins best future assets is just shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[wintersej]

Would the Canes be a potential suitor after bouncing out again? They’ve proven to be aggressive.

That’s an excellent question. To be honest the list of teams that are going for it AND have the cap space to bring back Miller is smaller than Canucks fans are hoping. So far it’s just been Bruins fans bidding against themselves for a signed Miller as the Colorados and Rangers of the world are just making rental offers.

 

[Bondra slapshot]

That’s an excellent question. To be honest the list of teams that are going for it AND have the cap space to bring back Miller is smaller than Canucks fans are hoping. So far it’s just been Bruins fans bidding against themselves for a signed Miller as the Colorados and Rangers of the world are just making rental offers.

Bingo. This guy gets it.

Canucks fans haven't done such a great job at differentiating or stratifying the teams that are interested in him. They think all of the teams are willing to pay the same prices and have the same intention. They forget that some teams will want to trade for him as a long term piece while others want him strictly as a rental. The teams that want him as a long term piece will pay more, while the teams that purely want him as a rental are only looking to get him for a rental price.

Canucks fans can tell themselves that they'll have so many teams interested in him but when push comes to shove, they'll only be a small handful of serious buyers that will most likely want him as a long term piece.

Teams that are interested in him purely as a rental will get outbid and they'll immediately fall off the board. In the end, they'll only be a few teams that will be in the mix for Miller.

Teams like LA and NYR for instance were only looking at Miller as a short term piece and also one for last year (the interest if anything decreases at this point for pure rental). They're not taking on another massive contract, while also dealing a combination of assets and roster players. Let alone, some of the Canucks fans don't even pay attention to other teams' cap restraints. A bunch of the teams that have shown interest in Miller can't even afford his contract. That's why they're only interested in him as a rental.

In reality, if you really want to pin down the teams that most likely will be in play, focus on the teams that are looking for long term piece in Miller AND that can conceivably afford him. Canucks fans don't like doing this because it makes them realize that they don't really have this long list of amazing options like they think they do.

 

[McJedi]

Previous reports indicate teams are intending to clear cap of Miller is available - ie they would sign him long term after acquiring him so he’s not really a rental. And you’re underrating Rathbone here - which you seem to consistently do when it comes to Canuck players / prospects.


I can’t see Boston trading for OEL now…if they didn’t trade for Lindholm sure but that ship has sailed imo n

Vancouver doesn’t have much of a farm system when a B- nobody like Rathbone is considered a or even THE top prospect. Put your 2022 1st on the table instead.