Mike Richards VIII Kings vs NHLPA

[KopitarFAN]

IF LA gets no relief from this whole termination deal I will be pissed. Why go through it instead of just buying him out?

Shouldn't you have a rock solid case to pursue this route?

The whole thing is a balls up.

Loyal to a fault.

The league had to sign off on them terminating the deal way back in June.

 

[bob77]

The cap is the issue. The two parties could agree to a middle ground on what he gets paid, but the cap hit impacts every other team in the league. The league might go outside of the CBA and still grant a situation as if the buyout were timely, and ask for the PA and league approval. I'd imagine the tricky part is the cap. If it goes to arbitration, there will be no middle ground. One side will win and the other will lose and all clauses of the CBA will be implemented. Imo

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Geez- I figured it had to go either one way or the other to stay within the terms of the CBA- maybe I'm wrong (again). If the Kings get away with a lower cap hit than that provided by the normal buy-out clause with this process, then there'll be a lot of other teams in future using the termination clause to get out from under, so to speak. If so, good on the Kings although, particularly without cause, I still don't like treating players (any player) that way.

Both the NHL and the PA can work something out if they both sign off on it--hence collective bargaining.

Re: the boldfaced, we STILL have no clue what's going on, so saying one way or another is just bias.

I see it the other way. DL has been pretty mob-style about players since he got here. He's given a whole bunch a chance to play, and he's given a whole bunch of loyalty beyond what is necessary. Something about Richards had to piss him off significantly to pursue this route after all the loyalty, imo. He doesn't like getting burned.

IF LA gets no relief from this whole termination deal I will be pissed. Why go through it instead of just buying him out?

Shouldn't you have a rock solid case to pursue this route?

The whole thing is a balls up.

Loyal to a fault.

Like I said above, hard to say. There's obviously enough there that even the NHLPA is working towards a settlement rather than pushing for the appeal, especially with a ball buster like Fehr in charge.

I mean, for all we know, Kings are working on a way to NOT screw Richards by giving him his money to get help for whatever he may need rather than just cutting him off altogether for whatever he may have done. It could actually be the Kings being decent, but I know that's counter to every narrative...

..so you know what? **** it. I hope this is the slimiest cap evasion scenario ever. May as well earn this **** reputation.

 

[scryan]

The league had to sign off on them terminating the deal way back in June.

It has never been made clear, but its entirely possible (in my mind even likely) that the NHL signing off on the deal is literally just that. You submit paperwork, they official accept it. They likely wouldn't want to make it their business, take on the cost or responsibility of being the one to argue cases... so unless some team tried to cancel a contract "because that guys a *****" or other such rampant stupidity, they likely leave it up to the other party to challenge.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It has never been made clear, but its entirely possible (in my mind even likely) that the NHL signing off on the deal is literally just that. You submit paperwork, they official accept it. They likely wouldn't want to make it their business, take on the cost or responsibility of being the one to argue cases... so unless some team tried to cancel a contract "because that guys a *****" or other such rampant stupidity, they likely leave it up to the other party to challenge.

Right, I took it as the NHL acknowledges the claim and it's simply not frivilous.

 

[tsanuri]

IF LA gets no relief from this whole termination deal I will be pissed. Why go through it instead of just buying him out?

Shouldn't you have a rock solid case to pursue this route?

The whole thing is a balls up.

Loyal to a fault.

The Kings could have a very solid case and still lose at arbitration. And considering the track record of the arbitrator that is a very likely outcome. So if you can get a settlement that doesn't hurt you as much as a buyout you take it. Once it goes into the arbitrator you are taking a chance.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Funny to see things playing out the way that a few of us expected them to. A few of are are smarter than the average Yogi Bear

 

[The Tikkanen]

To put it bluntly, you, sir, couldn't be more wrong. The Kings and absolutely nobody else, traded for Mike Richards and his contract and then proceeded to win 2 Stanley Cups in 4 years. Whether Mike Richards ever plays another period of hockey in the NHL does not change that. And, as far as his passion and excitement for hockey goes, let's once again go down the list of his rings- Memorial Cup (Canadian Junior Hockey champion), Calder Cup (American Hockey League champion), Olympic gold medal and 2 (count them) Stanley Cups; am I missing anything? Not many players, dead or alive, can equate to that and if that demonstrates a lack of excitement and dedication to the game, then I want more players on my team like that.

Like me, you, and just about everybody else, have absolutely no idea what's going on with Mike Richards so let's try and cut the personal attacks- we all get it.

Like Herby said you completely missed the point. Your argument is he was good 3 years ago and nothing has happened since then where one could derive from the facts that the guy doesn't enjoy playing hockey any longer or anything that it takes to compete at the NHL level? You would have made a great OJ juror.

 

[moosehead81]

Like Herby said you completely missed the point. Your argument is he was good 3 years ago and nothing has happened since then where one could derive from the facts that the guy doesn't enjoy playing hockey any longer or anything that it takes to compete at the NHL level? You would have made a great OJ juror.

Actually you both missed my point but we'll leave it at that. Head hurts from banging it against the wall.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And people keep saying this sets a bad precedent--no way. How many contracts get bought out or terminated? Of those, how many are simply for poor performance rather than whatever the hell is going on with Richards (legal issues--but is that all?)? NHL has to sign off on them so it's not like people are going to go around setting fire to contracts.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I think the settlement is not to screw Richards over any more than what has happened so far.

There is enough general information out there that the issue may in fact be a border entry ban or a loss of a work visa. A simple search with the keywords will find literally dozens of immigration attorneys that say people who even just admit to controlled substance possession/use even from decades ago can be potentially banned from entry or lose their work visa.

Nigella Lawson admitted cocaine use. Lost her work visa for a year and had to do her US based tv show via satellite from Britain. She had no drug convictions, no charges, not even an arrest.

Amy Winehouse lost her work visa for a year over plea to marijuana possession in Norway. She missed the 2008 Grammy's where she won 5 Grammy awards and was nominated for a sixth. Pot issues are specifically treated more leniently under the entry ban and work visa revocation statutes.

Kate Moss had a photo in the tabloids of her apparently using coke. Lost her work visa. No conviction, no charges, not even an arrest. She's been trying for a visa ever since. She even got into a heated discussion with the US ambassador. It's been 10 years.... and she still can't get a visa.

It's even spelled out on the official state department website that this can happen.

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/general/ineligibilities.html#Ineligibilities

 

[Stimpythecat]

There's always the risk of uncertainty in arbitration. So I can agree with trying to settle this privately.

I just hope the cap issues aren't the worst case scenario.

 

[Trolfoli]

Just great.... get the 1.3 cap hit for 5 years... kick down Richards some hush money.... and get around buyout penalty...

What's funny is that Richards/Voynov situations may be resolved before the Kopitar contract. Thought those 2 situations would drag out way longer.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Just great.... get the 1.3 cap hit for 5 years... kick down Richards some hush money.... and get around buyout penalty...

What's funny is that Richards/Voynov situations may be resolved before the Kopitar contract. Thought those 2 situations would drag out way longer.

I always assumed Kopitar wasn't getting an extension until DL had a better idea of what the Kings cap situation was going to be. There's still the issue of what the cap will actually be, but with Voynov settled and if they can settle with Richards, it's a lot easier to map out. Instead of a dozen scenarios on your table, you're down to a handful.

 

[YP44]

I always assumed Kopitar wasn't getting an extension until DL had a better idea of what the Kings cap situation was going to be. There's still the issue of what the cap will actually be, but with Voynov settled and if they can settle with Richards, it's a lot easier to map out. Instead of a dozen scenarios on your table, you're down to a handful.

this was my thought as well

 

[Scottkmlps]

Me thinks that the union thinks, with all the legal information they have possibly received, they wouldn't win in arbitration.

 

[YP44]

Me thinks that the union thinks, with all the legal information they have possibly received, they wouldn't win in arbitration.

or both sides regonize it could be coin flip.

It seems that arbitration would typically side with the player...maybe the player just wants this over so they can have a shot at playing this year and is pushing for settlement.

 

[scryan]

Just great.... get the 1.3 cap hit for 5 years... kick down Richards some hush money.... and get around buyout penalty...

What's funny is that Richards/Voynov situations may be resolved before the Kopitar contract. Thought those 2 situations would drag out way longer.

Could be entirely possible that part of the holdup with Kopi is the Kings needing to know exactly how much money they have to give him. Pretty hard to settle up the teams biggest contract with ~9mill of uncertainty hanging over your head.

 

[Bandit]

Could be entirely possible that part of the holdup with Kopi is the Kings needing to know exactly how much money they have to give him. Pretty hard to settle up the teams biggest contract with ~9mill of uncertainty hanging over your head.

I really hope so. MR situation over by tomorrow noon, Kopitar extension announced at 1pm. A guy can dream right?

 

[Stimpythecat]

I also think that the hold up with the Kopitar extension is not knowing the amount of cap space due to Voynov and Richards.

 

[tsanuri]

I also think that the hold up with the Kopitar extension is not knowing the amount of cap space due to Voynov and Richards.

Voynov is settled he has a cap hit of 0.
But, yes Richards can be a little more problematic.

 

[Bandit]

I think the settlement is not to screw Richards over any more than what has happened so far.

There is enough general information out there that the issue may in fact be a border entry ban or a loss of a work visa. A simple search with the keywords will find literally dozens of immigration attorneys that say people who even just admit to controlled substance possession/use even from decades ago can be potentially banned from entry or lose their work visa.

Nigella Lawson admitted cocaine use. Lost her work visa for a year and had to do her US based tv show via satellite from Britain. She had no drug convictions, no charges, not even an arrest.

Amy Winehouse lost her work visa for a year over plea to marijuana possession in Norway. She missed the 2008 Grammy's where she won 5 Grammy awards and was nominated for a sixth. Pot issues are specifically treated more leniently under the entry ban and work visa revocation statutes.

Kate Moss had a photo in the tabloids of her apparently using coke. Lost her work visa. No conviction, no charges, not even an arrest. She's been trying for a visa ever since. She even got into a heated discussion with the US ambassador. It's been 10 years.... and she still can't get a visa.

It's even spelled out on the official state department website that this can happen.

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/general/ineligibilities.html#Ineligibilities

This post needs more love. That's crazy about Kate Moss.

 

[onlyalad]

or both sides regonize it could be coin flip.

It seems that arbitration would typically side with the player...maybe the player just wants this over so they can have a shot at playing this year and is pushing for settlement.

I think it is both sides are afraid they will lose. If you know you will win100% you don't settle. However if you might lose you have to weigh the cost of losing.
If the King lose they get stuck with Richards cap hit (either whole or buyout amount)
Makes it hard to sign Kopitar and make other moves

If Kings win Richards gets no money. The NHLPA is afraid that more teams will terminate based on a player screwing up. This could be troublesome for guaranteed contracts.

Richards wants money. Kings want cap space. NHLPA wants contracts protected. Can ther be a way for all three to win?

 

[KopitarFAN]

I think it is both sides are afraid they will lose. If you know you will win100% you don't settle. However if you might lose you have to weigh the cost of losing.
If the King lose they get stuck with Richards cap hit (either whole or buyout amount)
Makes it hard to sign Kopitar and make other moves

If Kings win Richards gets no money. The NHLPA is afraid that more teams will terminate based on a player screwing up. This could be troublesome for guaranteed contracts.

Richards wants money. Kings want cap space. NHLPA wants contracts protected. Can ther be a way for all three to win?

Maybe. The NBA, also a cap league, has negotiated contract buyouts.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Maybe. The NBA, also a cap league, has negotiated contract buyouts.

Cap in name only, imho.