Mike Richards VI (UGH): The Armageddon Edition (MOD NOTE POST #1)

[lebowski74]

Would you be ok with that? Does that make it fair?

Absolutely, I am a firm believer that both parties need to live up to their end of the contracts.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Out of curiosity, how much control does a team have on a player medically. Ie can a player seek medical attention during the season from doctors not associated with their team.

Could a player get a prescription for a drug from another doctor, given against the wishes or advice of team docs?

 

[taylorjonl]

No one knows what "the Richards situation" actually is. Comparing it to Voynov's misdemeanor is folly. You're inventing scenarios that make it convenient for your argument without considering any alternatives. It's fair to disagree with reasoning, but no need to be combative about it, because you know as much as the rest of us. Please leave the "Why Voynov but not Richards huh huh huh Kings?" ******** on the main board.

I will stop posting because obviously they will not convince me and I will not convince them but I am not sure I agree with this. The argument is that Richards "broke the rules", didn't they both? I am not inventing that Voynov broke the rules, unless it is OK to do what he did.

Both sides aren't considering all alternatives, so far we are assuming that Richards was caught with some drugs while trying to cross the border and he didn't tell the Kings for 9 days. Nothing in this thread or any news on the internet says anything otherwise so this is all we have to go on.

Based on that and what we know of the Voynov situation, there is no doubt in my mind which is the more severe offense. So how is this not applicable?

 

[Fishhead]

Absolutely, I am a firm believer that both parties need to live up to their end of the contracts.

As do I.

I realize the slippery slope here, but I'm surprised that more fans aren't supportive of it. It's not like Richards is old, he just turned 30 this year. If he was 34 and signed to 3 or 4 more years and sucking, that's a different story. Think of it as something to protect your team from signing a guy then a couple years later having him not give two hoots about performing and ripping your team off.

I think all but a few of the players in the NHL stay motivated and bust their butts for their teams. But the few guys who have long contracts and mail it in well before their time, there has to be something to remedy that, hence it's written into the CBA.

If the termination goes through, I hardly expect to see them start happening with any regularity.

 

[Kingspiracy]

I will stop posting because obviously they will not convince me and I will not convince them but I am not sure I agree with this. The argument is that Richards "broke the rules", didn't they both? I am not inventing that Voynov broke the rules, unless it is OK to do what he did.

Both sides aren't considering all alternatives, so far we are assuming that Richards was caught with some drugs while trying to cross the border and he didn't tell the Kings for 9 days. Nothing in this thread or any news on the internet says anything otherwise so this is all we have to go on.

Based on that and what we know of the Voynov situation, there is no doubt in my mind which is the more severe offense. So how is this not applicable?

We don't have enough info on the Richards situation. I won't speculate further, but it is possible that what he is accused of doing is worse than what voynov did.

 

[taylorjonl]

We don't have enough info on the Richards situation. I won't speculate further, but it is possible that what he is accused of doing is worse than what voynov did.

So people are arguing in good faith?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I will stop posting because obviously they will not convince me and I will not convince them but I am not sure I agree with this. The argument is that Richards "broke the rules", didn't they both? I am not inventing that Voynov broke the rules, unless it is OK to do what he did.

Both sides aren't considering all alternatives, so far we are assuming that Richards was caught with some drugs while trying to cross the border and he didn't tell the Kings for 9 days. Nothing in this thread or any news on the internet says anything otherwise so this is all we have to go on.

Based on that and what we know of the Voynov situation, there is no doubt in my mind which is the more severe offense. So how is this not applicable?

You're confusing. You say we don't know Richards did, yet there's no doubt in your mind that what Voynov did is worse. If you don't see a problem with you casting an absolute judgment when you don't have facts, then yes, please stop posting.

And in regards to 'broke the rules,' if you can't tell the difference between a jaywalker and a murderer and why punishment has to fit the crime, then yes, please stop posting.

There's nothing to convince ANYONE of right now as facts are scarce and decisions aren't complete. We can debate viewpoints and talk about where things COULD go but saying they have to go one way or another is pretty much trolling right now.

 

[lebowski74]

I will stop posting because obviously they will not convince me and I will not convince them but I am not sure I agree with this. The argument is that Richards "broke the rules", didn't they both? I am not inventing that Voynov broke the rules, unless it is OK to do what he did.

Both sides aren't considering all alternatives, so far we are assuming that Richards was caught with some drugs while trying to cross the border and he didn't tell the Kings for 9 days. Nothing in this thread or any news on the internet says anything otherwise so this is all we have to go on.

Based on that and what we know of the Voynov situation, there is no doubt in my mind which is the more severe offense. So how is this not applicable?

No one in their right mind is going to say that crossing the border with oxy is worse than beating your wife. The two have nothing to do with each other. We're talking about the Richards contract. And to be honest we all know that if Kopitar or Quick or any good employee did the same thing they wouldn't have their contract terminated. They shouldn't. In fact even if Richards wasn't producing but was still doing everything in his power to get back to where he was I don't think his contract would have been either. Point is Mike is a bad employee, he knew his job was hanging by a string. He gave the Kings a way out. Blame Richards, or blame the Kings who cares. Hopefully this will make other paycheck players wake up and realize that the millions of dollars they get to play a game may not always be there.

 

[Kingspiracy]

So people are arguing in good faith?

What? People know and trust Lombardi's judgement.

 

[taylorjonl]

You're confusing. You say we don't know Richards did, yet there's no doubt in your mind that what Voynov did is worse. If you don't see a problem with you casting an absolute judgment when you don't have facts, then yes, please stop posting.

I am saying "based on what we know" there is no doubt. I am not saying I can read the future or I know what happened, what I am saying is that based on the information so far this voided contract is weak.

And in regards to 'broke the rules,' if you can't tell the difference between a jaywalker and a murderer and why punishment has to fit the crime, then yes, please stop posting.

Or a drug user and a wife beater? Just because he plead out to a misdemeanor doesn't make it less severe. Especially considering we are talking about a convicted wife beater and an accused drug user. (again based on the information we have)

There's nothing to convince ANYONE of right now as facts are scarce and decisions aren't complete.

According to a few posters in this thread the decision is made and it is justice(based on the information we all have). I am merely voicing my opinion.

We can debate viewpoints and talk about where things COULD go but saying they have to go one way or another is pretty much trolling right now.

I am not trolling, here is the definition of an internet troll:

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

This is on-topic and I am not doing this to provoke an emotional response, I am discussing the topic. Again, I am voicing my opinion, not stating facts since I unfortunately cannot read the future.

 

[redcard]

You can't have it both ways. You can't choose to void one guys contract but not the other because of a breach of ethics. That is my problem... The precedent is disturbing if the line is fuzzy and it will be abused, which is why the NHLPA will not stand for this for a second. Look at Donald Fehr's track record.

Yes, you can. You're missing the point of the termination. They were trying to get rid of the contract via trade prior to the buyout deadline. Richards' breach of ethics prohibited them from doing so. That's their argument. Richards was going to be off the team regardless, it just would have cost a lot less money to trade him than to buy him out.

Voynov is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion, because they weren't trying to trade him or buy him out prior to the arrest.

 

[Zippity]

What are the chances that the Kings organization tipped off the border patrol?

 

[kingsholygrail]

What are the chances that the Kings organization tipped off the border patrol?

 

[bob77]

After signing McBain, that's 15 defensemen under contract. 16 including Voynov. The Kings are getting Lucic for about the same amount as Williams last year. Muzzin, Martinez, Toffoli, and Pearson are taking up more space. Have to sign some RFA's. Only so many dollars, especially with the Voynov question still lingering.

Doesn't look like it's going to be the perfect roster, but find one anywhere. As long as the strengths that the Kings do have outweigh the wekanesses, they'll be alright. They don't have to win the Cup in the first game of the season, so see how it works out.

And the Richards cap issue that lingers. The PA might want Mike contract reinstated. The deadline for buyout passed. The league won't just be able to say, now switch it back to a buyout. Mike had an NHL contract and he might want full pay, not two thirds. Sure he can be an UFA with a buyout, but he'll never ever get a new contract that will pay him more than the remaining one third. So Mike would prefer probably a trade and then still be on his contract. For those that say the league would just let a buyout stand or the recapture cap hit stand if Mike wins a settlement outside of CBA rules (ie a payoff to Mike), I just don't see the PA agreeing to that because then it sets a precedent for a way to end contracts that is not the agreed upon and bargained for buyout process. I believe the Kings need to win the material breach matter completely, or Mike is back on the team as if nothing ever happened, including no buyout, no termination, no trade yet, or no retirement!! It is also Mike's only way to win as well. Although the league currently considers him to be an UFA, if Mike signs another contract right now, that could be construed as him accepting his termination, and could negate any appeal rights he may have. So, because the Kings have terminated him instead of buyout, he has lost his right to have been properly a UFA on July 1.

 

[417th]

I am a Wings fan.

What is worse, punching your wiif in the face, kicking and choking her several times then throwing her into a TV or getting caught with drugs and not telling your employer? This goes to credibility.

What's worse? Ruinning peoples lives by admittedly trying to carry large quantities of cocaine over the border with the intent to distribute it ala Probert (R.I.P great man on ad off the ice) and after a minor suspension being allowed to return to play or pleading no contest to a misdemeanor? The bolded are unproven accusations made by the D.A. in Torrance Ca that were never proven in court. I won't even get into the problems with those accusations but those are nothing more than speculation at this point so should be left out of the conversation. What Voynov plead no contest to is wrong and flat out should never happen but what he plead no contest to was a misdemeanor. People do MUCH worse and get away with in the NHL all the time.

I could go on naming former wings who have returned to play after facing criminal charges if you like but there is the answer to YOUR question. I remind you that you are visiting a Kings home page and are a guest here.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Here's something for you to think about.
Many sports lawyers have weighed in and think the Kings can't win the case against Richards. They might be right they might be wrong.
But most of them have also said unless something happens with the INS the Kings would most likely lose that as well.
So it really doesn't come down to credibility. DL knows something about the Richards case that we, and they, don't right now. And that is probably what he thinks he can win on. But we have the facts of the plea and his sentence and with those facts, that are all public record, he thinks under the CBA he can't win it.

What if the Kings can prove via medical records that Mike Richard has been addicted to pain killers since the concussion? What if the whole "Mike Richards is out of shape" was cover for Mike Richards needs to go get help and he has refused on more than one occasion? People keep speculating over the Canada border arrest and completely ignoring the Mike Richards behavior on the ice since the concussion. There has been a pattern of unexplainable behavior for 2 years and now there is an explanation for the one of the biggest fall offs in NHL history.

 

[Mitchnesses]

So people are arguing in good faith?

You said you were going to stop posting. You are not a person of your word are you?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We're not going to play the 'which crime is worse' game. Stay on topic.

 

[417th]

We're not going to play the 'which crime is worse' game. Stay on topic.

It was in response to his saying that Voynov should be thrown out of the league for his crimes. I am only pointing out that 1, if it were a player on his own favorite team that he might feel very different about things and 2, the fact that players have been allowed to return to play after being convicted of committing felonies and have been allowed to return to playing in the NHL. I wasn't comparing crimes, only the results of those crimes as they pertain to a players (in this case Voynov) being allowed to return to the game.

 

[Reclamation Project]

What are the chances that the Kings organization tipped off the border patrol?

Hopefully we'll get a straight to DVD film about it.

 

[mouser]

What if the Kings can prove via medical records that Mike Richard has been addicted to pain killers since the concussion? What if the whole "Mike Richards is out of shape" was cover for Mike Richards needs to go get help and he has refused on more than one occasion? People keep speculating over the Canada border arrest and completely ignoring the Mike Richards behavior on the ice since the concussion. There has been a pattern of unexplainable behavior for 2 years and now there is an explanation for the one of the biggest fall offs in NHL history.

If that were the case then it most likely should have been handled under the joint substance abuse procedures negotiated between the NHL and PA.

 

[Bandit]

Hopefully we'll get a straight to DVD film about it.

A Netflix original starring Sean Penn as Darryl Sutter.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What are the chances that the Kings organization tipped off the border patrol?

And how did they know he'd be at the border? They implant a tracking chip into Mike Richards?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I don't understand the big problem with choosing to look past Voynov's material breach but choosing to terminate Richards.

It's professional hockey, not a humanitarian organization. The Kings are trying to win hockey games. They want to keep Voynov but not Richards. omgwhothehellcares.jpg

 

[Ron*]

I don't understand the big problem with choosing to look past Voynov's material breach but choosing to terminate Richards.

It's professional hockey, not a humanitarian organization. The Kings are trying to win hockey games. They want to keep Voynov but not Richards. omgwhothehellcares.jpg

This is basically the bottom line.

Nit- and cherry-picking semantics in the CBA etc. is a waste of time. The Kings need Voynov's talent level at the blue line while Richards is all washed up.

What is there to debate, really?