Mike Richards VI (UGH): The Armageddon Edition (MOD NOTE POST #1)

[taylorjonl]

....

I understand your position, but I don't accept it. Almost every response is saying "there must be more" or "DL wouldn't proceed without a solid foundation of the claim" or "he broke a rule" that noone can cite. Everything is speculation but your camp acts like it is fact and we are thick for not understanding. It isn't a problem of understanding, it is a problem of acceptance, i don't believe based on the evidence that they have enough to justify this action.

If the Kings were to act the same against the promising defenseman I will eat crow, but I dot see that happening, they like that contract.

 

[Reclamation Project]

 

[417th]

I understand your position, but I don't accept it. Almost every response is saying "there must be more" or "DL wouldn't proceed without a solid foundation of the claim" or "he broke a rule" that noone can cite. Everything is speculation but your camp acts like it is fact and we are thick for not understanding. It isn't a problem of understanding, it is a problem of acceptance, i don't believe based on the evidence that they have enough to justify this action.

If the Kings were to act the same against the promising defenseman I will eat crow, but I dot see that happening, they like that contract.

So here we are again. You are saying that the only way this works to your level of acceptability is IF the Kings terminate a players contract (an entirely different player, just making sure we say that) who plead no contest to a misdemeanor charge. Am I correct here? Please identify your team in your answer as well because history will very likely provide us with players from your team who have been charged and plead to misdemeanor charges during their history and what happened to them should be discussed as well.

 

[lebowski74]

I understand your position, but I don't accept it. Almost every response is saying "there must be more" or "DL wouldn't proceed without a solid foundation of the claim" or "he broke a rule" that noone can cite. Everything is speculation but your camp acts like it is fact and we are thick for not understanding. It isn't a problem of understanding, it is a problem of acceptance, i don't believe based on the evidence that they have enough to justify this action.

If the Kings were to act the same against the promising defenseman I will eat crow, but I dot see that happening, they like that contract.

To be honest, you don't see it because you don't want to see it. Just reading from those posts he has cited specifics and you choose to ignore them.

The Slava contract has nothing to do with Richards

 

[taylorjonl]

So here we are again. You are saying that the only way this works to your level of acceptability is IF the Kings terminate a players contract (an entirely different player, just making sure we say that) who plead no contest to a misdemeanor charge. Am I correct here? Please identify your team in your answer as well because history will very likely provide us with players from your team who have been charged and plead to misdemeanor charges during their history and what happened to them should be discussed as well.

I am a Wings fan.

What is worse, punching your wiif in the face, kicking and choking her several times then throwing her into a TV or getting caught with drugs and not telling your employer? This goes to credibility.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

I am a Wings fan.

What is worse, punching your wiif in the face, kicking and choking her several times then throwing her into a TV or getting caught with drugs and not telling your employer? This goes to credibility.

both are bad, but doesn't that give the right to the employer to decide what he wants to do with the situation?

he's still in his legal right to fire both employees, keep one, or keep both right?

this incident allows DL to void Richards' contract

the fact that Voynov did what he did, doesn't change that...you don't understand this? this has been repeated over and over again

i want you to answer to this post

you are mixing ethics with law here

don't

 

[KINGS17]

Anyone somewhat shocked that we haven't heard from Richards' agent or the NHLPA?

Actually, I think his agent knows he's in deep kimchi.

This is a supposition on my part, but I think Richards was expecting a buy out. When trade talks started heating up again with Edmonton and Calgary, Dean likely informed Richards agent that a trade was imminent. Finally, the agent had to come clean.

If I am right, and I may not be, Newport's reputation is going to suffer, not Dean Lombardi's reputation. Of course Richards' reputation is already in the toilet.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

I am a Wings fan.

What is worse, punching your wiif in the face, kicking and choking her several times then throwing her into a TV or getting caught with drugs and not telling your employer? This goes to credibility.

if Zetterberg and Datsyuk decide to beat up a defenseless dog

and Daniel Cleary decides to snort a line of coke

i hope your GM is intelligent enough to do what's right for the team

which is have a talk or set up a program for Zetterberg & Datsyuk and condemn animal abuse

and kick Daniel Cleary out of the team for snorting coke

...if you'd terminate the contract of all three, you'd be a very bad GM for the Red Wings

i'm sure DL is apauled at Stoll, Voynov, and Richards, but he's putting his emotions aside for the sake of the team...because all three will still get their deserved punishments in society regardless

the GM is just that, a GM...not a moral police

 

[lebowski74]

I don't want to turn this into a Slava vs Richards thread but let me just say this. When is comes to Richards for whatever reason he had just become an pay check employee. I might even agree with some your points if he had just put in the slightest bit of effort. The guy just doesn't care anymore. Lombardi had given him chance after chance. Richards has only himself to blame. He would still have a job somewhere if he didn't try to sneak oxy across the border. He gave Dean a way out and he took it.

Slava is a whole other story and to be honest what ever direction Dean and the Kings go I will be fine with.

 

[The Tikkanen]

I believe Lombardi's case will be tied to a long list of RX's in Mike Richards name. Why is he on pain killers? Who prescribed them? For how long? Getting stopped at the border was probably just a last straw in a long denial process for Mike Richards.

 

[Fishhead]

I don't want to turn this into a Slava vs Richards thread but let me just say this. When is comes to Richards for whatever reason he had just become an pay check employee. I might even agree with some your points if he had just put in the slightest bit of effort. The guy just doesn't care anymore. Lombardi had given him chance after chance. Richards has only himself to blame. He would still have a job somewhere if he didn't try to sneak oxy across the border. He gave Dean a way out and he took it.

Slava is a whole other story and to be honest what ever direction Dean and the Kings go I will be fine with.

Yep. I would say most people are willing to give Slava a second chance, because that's what it is, a second chance. Richards has had multiple chances and done little to improve. He actually regressed.

I don't blame posters of other teams for thinking it looks fishy though. They only are seeing recent events, not the pattern of indifference that Richards has shown for his employer over the last couple years.

If someone on their team had their GM personally go meet them, look them in the eye, and get their word that they will get their conditioning to top level, and then have them not do it, they'd be mad too.

They'd be totally pissed if the same player wasn't bought out because of the conversation and still didn't show any significant improvement.

Then when they discovered that because he wasn't making progress, the team requested the player stay in town to work with conditioning trainers, and the player went fishing instead, well they would be livid.

Then, when they discovered that the player got into trouble, didn't notify the team, the GM found out at the last minute and it ruined any possible efforts to trade him... Well they would be just as on board as the rest of us.

The vast majority of posters here like Richards, want him to succeed, and are forever grateful for his contributions. But he has absolutely violated his contract several times, and it's time that this was done.

 

[taylorjonl]

both are bad, but doesn't that give the right to the employer to decide what he wants to do with the situation?

he's still in his legal right to fire both employees, keep one, or keep both right?

this incident allows DL to void Richards' contract

the fact that Voynov did what he did, doesn't change that...you don't understand this? this has been repeated over and over again

i want you to answer to this post

you are mixing ethics with law here

don't

You can't have it both ways. You can't choose to void one guys contract but not the other because of a breach of ethics. That is my problem... The precedent is disturbing if the line is fuzzy and it will be abused, which is why the NHLPA will not stand for this for a second. Look at Donald Fehr's track record.

 

[Fishhead]

You can't have it both ways. You can't choose to void one guys contract but not the other because of a breach of ethics. That is my problem... The precedent is disturbing if the line is fuzzy and it will be abused, which is why the NHLPA will not stand for this for a second. Look at Donald Fehr's track record.

Well, when one guy violated his contract once, and the other player has made a pattern of it, it's absolutely OK to terminate one and not the other.

Richards actions over the last couple years have given the Kings plenty of firepower.

 

[taylorjonl]

if Zetterberg and Datsyuk decide to beat up a defenseless dog

and Daniel Cleary decides to snort a line of coke

i hope your GM is intelligent enough to do what's right for the team

which is have a talk or set up a program for Zetterberg & Datsyuk and condemn animal abuse

and kick Daniel Cleary out of the team for snorting coke

...if you'd terminate the contract of all three, you'd be a very bad GM for the Red Wings

i'm sure DL is apauled at Stoll, Voynov, and Richards, but he's putting his emotions aside for the sake of the team...because all three will still get their deserved punishments in society regardless

the GM is just that, a GM...not a moral police

Firstly, like Stoll, Cleary is a UFA so nothing would be done, he would not be resigned.

Secondly, if they decided to void, say for example Weiss(a contract we have wanted to get rid of for year or so) for getting caught with drugs I would expect that if Datsyuk(as disappointed as I would be) was caught beating his wife he would also be voided(not likely from a 4 time Lady Byng winner).

I don't blame DL for trying what he is trying but he is a lawyer... I expect the NHL/NHLPA to do what is right to maintain parity.

 

[taylorjonl]

Well, when one guy violated his contract once, and the other player has made a pattern of it, it's absolutely OK to terminate one and not the other.

Richards actions over the last couple years have given the Kings plenty of firepower.

Please elaborate, what are his offenses? Being lazy or not living up to expectations is not an offense, we have the Mule that has been lazy for two or more seasons.

 

[lebowski74]

Please elaborate, what are his offenses? Being lazy or not living up to expectations is not an offense, we have the Mule that has been lazy for two or more seasons.

And if that Mule did something that allowed the wings to void his contract you can bet they would.

 

[bob77]

The one word I think people need to understand in all this is the word "material."

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/material-breach-of-contract.html

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I believe in being fair, the Kings should have to pay him or buy him out like every other team. My team didn't get this advantage so neither should the Kings.

We still don't know what happened so crying foul is just as premature as what you're accusing everyone else of.

curious...what is the NHL's official stance on this so far? is there one to begin with? hard to decipher all of this...

There is none as of yet.

Came to post this question, why is there still the recapture hit of 1.3 mil if the contract has been voided?

No matter what happens to the contract, we're on the hook for the amount of the cap we benefitted by paying him less than the AAV.

 

[Fishhead]

Please elaborate, what are his offenses? Being lazy or not living up to expectations is not an offense, we have the Mule that has been lazy for two or more seasons.

(b) to keep himself in good physical condition at all times during the season.

Richards did not do this, despite giving his word to do so. The guy couldn't even make a 50 second shift.

(e) to conduct himself on and off the rink according to the highest standards of
honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship, and to refrain from conduct detrimental to the best interest of the Club, the League or professional hockey generally.

Obviously. He violated several of these. He was dishonest by not informing the Kings of his situation. Getting caught bringing schedule 1 drugs over a border is conduct detrimental to the Kings and the NHL. Not to mention that's a low moral standard.

3. In order that the Player shall be fit and in proper condition for the performance of his duties as required by this SPC and the Agreement, the Player agrees to report for practice at such time and place as the Club may reasonably designate and participate in such Exhibition Games as may be arranged by the Club


The Kings requested he report to trainers at the end of the last two seasons to set up training regimens and get some supervised training. Both times he went home to Ontario, disregarding the requests. I think it's a fully reasonable request to ask a struggling, out of shape player to work with with team trainers.

That's 5 things that we know about. Not even counting anything that falls under

4. The Club may from time to time during the continuance of this SPC establish reasonable rules governing the conduct and conditioning of the Player, and such reasonable rules shall form part of this SPC and the Agreement as fully as if herein written

 

[taylorjonl]

And if that Mule did something that allowed the wings to void his contract you can bet they would.

Would you be ok with that? Does that make it fair?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I am a Wings fan.

What is worse, punching your wiif in the face, kicking and choking her several times then throwing her into a TV or getting caught with drugs and not telling your employer? This goes to credibility.

Gonna say this one last time before I start threadbanning.

No one knows what "the Richards situation" actually is. Comparing it to Voynov's misdemeanor is folly. You're inventing scenarios that make it convenient for your argument without considering any alternatives. It's fair to disagree with reasoning, but no need to be combative about it, because you know as much as the rest of us. Please leave the "Why Voynov but not Richards huh huh huh Kings?" ******** on the main board.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Would you be ok with that? Does that make it fair?

If it were legitimate reasons, I may not like it, but it is what it is. Not like teams are going to go around ripping contracts up willy nilly just because they feel like it. You need grounds.

 

[bob77]

The intent of Mike Richards contract is to play hockey for the Kings. So, any material breach will have to relate to his ability to do just that. To just show up and play!!! Not his trade ability, not a potential drug problem, not how out of shape he is, not he didn't notify the Kings earlier, etc.

 

[tsanuri]

I am a Wings fan.

What is worse, punching your wiif in the face, kicking and choking her several times then throwing her into a TV or getting caught with drugs and not telling your employer? This goes to credibility.

Here's something for you to think about.
Many sports lawyers have weighed in and think the Kings can't win the case against Richards. They might be right they might be wrong.
But most of them have also said unless something happens with the INS the Kings would most likely lose that as well.
So it really doesn't come down to credibility. DL knows something about the Richards case that we, and they, don't right now. And that is probably what he thinks he can win on. But we have the facts of the plea and his sentence and with those facts, that are all public record, he thinks under the CBA he can't win it.

 

[Fishhead]

The intent of Mike Richards contract is to play hockey for the Kings. So, any material breach will have to relate to his ability to do just that. To just show up and play!!! Not his trade ability, not a potential drug problem, not how out of shape he is, not he didn't notify the Kings earlier, etc.

That's a bit of an oversimplification, I think...

You could take the drug clauses, the conditioning clauses, and similar things out of the contract and it would only have a minor impact.

Now think about what would happen if you took away the ability to trade players, and that will tell you how hugely important that is to the contract.

Given what little we know, there is no guarantee that Mike will be able to continue to play for any team, not just the Kings, so it may be a moot point. Only time will tell.