Mike Richards III (Cleared waivers 1/27/15)

[KingsHockey24]

If Richards puts up at least a point per game in the AHL then we know he can still play and that Sutter isn't playing him properly. Im hoping he finds his game and comes back to help the team.

Thats what we all hope.

 

[KINGS17]

My question is how do you move his contract by having him play in the AHL where the Kings still essentially eat the cap hit? Does he become more valuable and moveable when he eats up the opposition there (or not)? If it was the Redden situation where the Rangers eliminated the cap hit by demoting him, I could understand the move on MR. But this essentially says "guy, you're no better than what we have on the team currently (including Nolan et al) and a couple of call-ups we can get". Makes no sense to me but what do I know.

It makes a lot of sense to me. Lombardi and Sutter are trying to win hockey games. Lombardi and Sutter believe that the Kings are a better team with Shore in the lineup and Richards out of the lineup at this point in time.

I have to agree.

 

[moosehead81]

If Richards puts up at least a point per game in the AHL then we know he can still play and that Sutter isn't playing him properly. Im hoping he finds his game and comes back to help the team.

Or, no matter what Richards does, the Kings put a long string of losses together and miss the play-offs, where does that put Richards (and everybody else on the squad)? I don't think waiving Richards through the league makes the Kings any better, perhaps worse, but time will tell.

 

[tfong]

As an outsider, its really surprising for me to see him not claimed, let alone on waivers.

Hope he regains his form one way or another.

 

[KINGS17]

Correct, and I agree with you.

I've seen a lot of people dumping on the guy (not on here really) and my point in it was that Richards is probably not (in my opinion that is) a minor league level player. He's a legit bottom 6 player on most if not ALL of the NHL teams out there.

It wasn't necessarily ALL on his level of play. Decline is a natural part of the game. A lot of it has to do, as you said, him falling victim to the cap era system. There is a large part of it that is definitely still on him for not playing up to standards, or at least close to that of his contract. But as far as him being of below NHL caliber play, not even close. The guy still would cut it on numerous teams. Just not for 5.5 a year.

That's a really tough thing to have to rationalize in many regards. He is good enough to play in the NHL, but the business side and the monetary side are going to keep him from it (Along with his dip in performance).

Hmmm, maybe agents should consider longevity of their clients contract in conjunction with their salary if they want their guy to remain in the NHL. A team like the Kings that may have better 3rd and 4th line centers in Shore and Stoll, would like to move Richards, but the rest of the NHL sees the contract as toxic waste.

Maybe, that wouldn't be the case if Richards' cap hit was $1.5M less a season. I know, a little far fetched, but something for the players and their agents to think about. Take less money and stick in the NHL when your play declines as it inevitably will.

Maybe GMs should stop being stupid and handing out 8-year deals to players in their late twenties as well. The Kopitar negotiations are going to be very interesting. If Dean is smart, h won't give him more than 5 years.

 

[KINGS17]

Jones has been playing with some fire lately and he's the only power forward we have right now. He's not going anywhere.

From Calgarypuck seems like this is where people are at;

Richards + a first for Mason Raymond or Stajan.

Possibly with 20% retained as well. That is just a horrendous contract that Richards has.

Not that this isn't a fair offer, but I would rather keep our 1st and have Lombardi buy out Richards' contract if he can't get his act together in Manchester.

 

[Pez68]

I respectfully disagree.

With the way the cap is now and more and more teams feeling the crunch, less people can throw around that kind of money. You're going to see contracts taper off, imo, and no one will be getting more than Toews/Kane. More teams are starting to realize that when their youth graduates to RFA and beyond it's literally impossible to keep a vision of a team together unless everyone is taking huge discounts. It's why Carter's contract is so valuable and I will maintain Kopitar doesn't get more than 8.5.

I mean everyone wants to praise Buffalo as a model of growing a team but 1. those kids haven't made it yet and 2. if they do as well as hoped there's no way they keep em all. All you can do is trade and restock. Even Edmonton is going to start feeling it and they have yet to really hit the big time.

It only takes one team willing to pay that, and for Kopitar, there will be more than one team willing to dish out double digits. We all like to think our hometown guys are going to take a discount, but it just doesn't happen. Hell, most Hawks' fans had Toews/Kane coming in around the numbers that Getzlaf and Perry got. That didn't happen, and it won't happen with Kopitar either.

There is no playing "hardball" with an elite UFA. Hell, there's not much being played with elite RFAs either because of how cheap offer sheets are.

Good thing there was another lockout!

 

[Jason Lewis]

Hmmm, maybe agents should consider longevity of their clients contract in conjunction with their salary if they want their guy to remain in the NHL. A team like the Kings that may have better 3rd and 4th line centers in Shore and Stoll, would like to move Richards, but the rest of the NHL sees the contract as toxic waste.

Maybe, that wouldn't be the case if Richards' cap hit was $1.5M less a season. I know, a little far fetched, but something for the players and their agents to think about. Take less money and stick in the NHL when your play declines as it inevitably will.

Maybe GMs should stop being stupid and handing out 8-year deals to players in their late twenties as well. The Kopitar negotiations are going to be very interesting. If Dean is smart, h won't give him more than 5 years.

Yup.

Seriously though, so many bad contracts out there that are burning/have burned/going to burn their respective teams. Lecavalier, Pronger, Semin, Horcoff, Orpik, Clowe, Clarkson, Bolland, Phaneuf, Girardi, Redden, Weiss...

It happens.

 

[theMajor]

Hmmm, maybe agents should consider longevity of their clients contract in conjunction with their salary if they want their guy to remain in the NHL. A team like the Kings that may have better 3rd and 4th line centers in Shore and Stoll, would like to move Richards, but the rest of the NHL sees the contract as toxic waste.

Maybe, that wouldn't be the case if Richards' cap hit was $1.5M less a season. I know, a little far fetched, but something for the players and their agents to think about. Take less money and stick in the NHL when your play declines as it inevitably will.

Maybe GMs should stop being stupid and handing out 8-year deals to players in their late twenties as well. The Kopitar negotiations are going to be very interesting. If Dean is smart, h won't give him more than 5 years.

keep in mind that it is a contract handed out by none other than Mr Paul Holmgren

 

[Herby]

I posed this question on twitter and on Hockeybuzz.

Take contracts out of the equation, rate the following players in order:

Richards, Stoll, King, Clifford, Andreoff, Nolan, Lewis (not my order just listing them)

King
Lewis
Stoll
Clifford




Richards




Nolan
Andreoff

 

[KINGS17]

It only takes one team willing to pay that, and for Kopitar, there will be more than one team willing to dish out double digits. We all like to think our hometown guys are going to take a discount, but it just doesn't happen. Hell, most Hawks' fans had Toews/Kane coming in around the numbers that Getzlaf and Perry got. That didn't happen, and it won't happen with Kopitar either.

There is no playing "hardball" with an elite UFA. Hell, there's not much being played with elite RFAs either because of how cheap offer sheets are.

Good thing there was another lockout!

It's going to be hard watching Kopi in a Bluejackets uniform when Dean trades him to Columbus for Johansen. I think the Lombardi candy store is officially closed.

 

[Herby]

As an outsider, its really surprising for me to see him not claimed, let alone on waivers.

Hope he regains his form one way or another.

If you watched him play the last 120 or so games it wouldn't surprise you.

Every NHL team has pro scouts that travel the continent watching other teams play, everyone in the league knew how awful he was.

It's going to be hard watching Kopi in a Bluejackets uniform when Dean trades him to Columbus for Johansen. I think the Lombardi candy store is officially closed.

One deal can't make Dean gun shy about signing guys to fair market deals. And as much as Richards contract has been a disaster, the Kings have benefited from having Carter at such a low cap hit. And honestly, and you know this as well, Dean has to shoulder the vast majority of the blame that this is hanging over the Kings right now. Had Dean looked at things logically with his head instead of his heart he would have seen a guy who was the worst player on the team the second half of last year who was at a position the Kings were extremely strong in with Kopi and Carter. There was very little upside and a ton of downside to bringing back Richards. Even if MR righted the ship he was still only going to be the Kings 3C, and overpaid at that, but if he continued to regress he was going to be out of the league, which has happened.

 

[Chain]

My question is how do you move his contract by having him play in the AHL where the Kings still essentially eat the cap hit? Does he become more valuable and moveable when he eats up the opposition there (or not)? If it was the Redden situation where the Rangers eliminated the cap hit by demoting him, I could understand the move on MR. But this essentially says "guy, you're no better than what we have on the team currently (including Nolan et al) and a couple of call-ups we can get". Makes no sense to me but what do I know.

Imo, they didn't send him there because he's worse than everyone else on the team, including Nolan. He is clearly worse than the top 6 and probably most of the 3rd. But he's not worse the worst guy on the team. The team is better with him on the 4th line than Nolan or Andreoff. So that's not the message they're trying to send.

It seems to me the move served a couple purposes, going from lowest to highest priority (my opinion):
1) They wanted to see if another team would pick him up. If so, then the albatross contract is gone and they don't have to worry about it anymore at least. I don't think this was the main point of sending him down though since they knew it was unlikely any other team was going to pick him up, just like most of us knew it.
2) It sends a message to the rest of the team. Playtime is over. Get to winning again.
3) They're trying to see if Richards can have a Selanne-like re-emergence so they're giving him a chance to "rediscover his game", whatever his problems are. Richards said his problem was he wasn't preparing like a 29 year old. It appears he might not have prepared as well as he could have coming into training camp either, though that's debatable. This sends a message to him that they're not going to take him not giving his best effort all the time anymore, like taking the off-season for granted. Plus, sending him down gives him a chance to get more ice time & work on some things in his game without having to do it against top competition. Maybe, like some have said, he needs to tweak his game since he isn't playing as physical as he used to. Well, it's probably easier to make any adjustments possible when getting more ice time against lesser competition. Dean's always loved Richards. To me, above all else, this is his way of saying "This is the best chance I can give you to try and reclaim a higher level in your playing. Now go out and do it so we can bring you back." and that's why Dean mentioned Selanne having a resurgence and said it's up to Richards to do so.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It only takes one team willing to pay that, and for Kopitar, there will be more than one team willing to dish out double digits. We all like to think our hometown guys are going to take a discount, but it just doesn't happen. Hell, most Hawks' fans had Toews/Kane coming in around the numbers that Getzlaf and Perry got. That didn't happen, and it won't happen with Kopitar either.

There is no playing "hardball" with an elite UFA. Hell, there's not much being played with elite RFAs either because of how cheap offer sheets are.

Good thing there was another lockout!

It takes a team willing to offer it and a player willing to take it. I have a hard time buying Kopitar would jump ship to another team for a million. I also have a hard time believing that if like Toronto paid 11 million for patrick kane that he'd rather be there than Chicago. We're talking mega money here. If someone overpays him to the tune of league max, I'm sure he's gone as regardless of how much it hurts us it would DESTROY building a team around him. Like I said above, I think both teams and players are getting used to the cap reality and we're running out of teams that can simply wait and poach guys for money.

 

[Chain]

It takes a team willing to offer it and a player willing to take it. I have a hard time buying Kopitar would jump ship to another team for a million. I also have a hard time believing that if like Toronto paid 11 million for patrick kane that he'd rather be there than Chicago. We're talking mega money here. If someone overpays him to the tune of league max, I'm sure he's gone as regardless of how much it hurts us it would DESTROY building a team around him. Like I said above, I think both teams and players are getting used to the cap reality and we're running out of teams that can simply wait and poach guys for money.

Ya, I think that's basically right. I don't see Kopi asking for what Toews/Kane made. I could be wrong of course. But Kopi is so much of a team first guy that it even hurts his own production a bit. I think he wants to get paid but don't see him asking for $13 million. Especially if the next cap stays about stagnant as predicted. He will give the Kings a hometown discount, it's just how much is the question. He obviously likes it here. He bought 2 houses next to Gaborik. And we're still a team with a core that has the potential to go to another cup. Unless the salary difference is substantial, I don't see him giving all that up to move to a new city where he doesn't have the friends, the climate, and the success of the team is likely more uncertain.

 

[scramble91]

It takes a team willing to offer it and a player willing to take it. I have a hard time buying Kopitar would jump ship to another team for a million. I also have a hard time believing that if like Toronto paid 11 million for patrick kane that he'd rather be there than Chicago. We're talking mega money here. If someone overpays him to the tune of league max, I'm sure he's gone as regardless of how much it hurts us it would DESTROY building a team around him. Like I said above, I think both teams and players are getting used to the cap reality and we're running out of teams that can simply wait and poach guys for money.

Problem is its not just a million. He would be missing out on 8 million over the course of his last big contract.

Kopi is a pretty humble guy and seems like he would take a hometown discount but the fact remains this is still a business for the players too. Agents, Union, wife will push for the larger contract.

I'm hoping he will sign for the low 9 range but that would be for the full 8 years. If Dean wants only 5 years, I would bet he would push for the Toews number.

 

[Bandit]

It only works if it was something mental or he was just not in as good of shape as he should have been. If it is one of those and playing more and hopefully scoring more should increase his value. That is if they bring him back up and he starts to put up better numbers at the NHL level.

Pretty much this. The hope is that this is a wake up call to him and that he regains his form, then comes back to the NHL and proves he is still a player worth something. Then maybe he could be moved at a later date/next year.

 

[Pez68]

Ya, I think that's basically right. I don't see Kopi asking for what Toews/Kane made. I could be wrong of course. But Kopi is so much of a team first guy that it even hurts his own production a bit. I think he wants to get paid but don't see him asking for $13 million. Especially if the next cap stays about stagnant as predicted. He will give the Kings a hometown discount, it's just how much is the question. He obviously likes it here. He bought 2 houses next to Gaborik. And we're still a team with a core that has the potential to go to another cup. Unless the salary difference is substantial, I don't see him giving all that up to move to a new city where he doesn't have the friends, the climate, and the success of the team is likely more uncertain.

How is that different from Toews in Chicago? It's pretty much the same exact situation, and they are such similar players.... I don't see any way Kopitar's agent isn't arguing for the exact same contract as Toews, or very close to it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How is that different from Toews in Chicago? It's pretty much the same exact situation, and they are such similar players.... I don't see any way Kopitar's agent isn't arguing for the exact same contract as Toews, or very close to it.

As he should. I just respectfully disagree that he's going to actually get that amount of money.

 

[The Tikkanen]

I read an article today (too lazy to link it) that being in the AHL Richards would not have to donate 16% to the escrow payment and there is no personal income tax in New Hampshire while it is 13.3 here in California for people who make over 1 million dollars. So, Richards will be making about 30% more money to play in Manchester! The guy just keeps on winning.

 

[Pez68]

I read an article today (too lazy to link it) that being in the AHL Richards would not have to donate 16% to the escrow payment and there is no personal income tax in New Hampshire while it is 13.3 here in California for people who make over 1 million dollars. So, Richards will be making about 30% more money to play in Manchester! The guy just keeps on winning.

He could take that extra money and charter a plane for the team to travel on while he's down there...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

 

[kingsfan28]

The end of the bromance.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

I read an article today (too lazy to link it) that being in the AHL Richards would not have to donate 16% to the escrow payment and there is no personal income tax in New Hampshire while it is 13.3 here in California for people who make over 1 million dollars. So, Richards will be making about 30% more money to play in Manchester! The guy just keeps on winning.

Well, according to the New Avery Rule (as referenced in Sean Avery's recent piece,) taxes take 50%, agents and management take 25%, and escrow takes 20%. So here's your 5%. Go wild!

 

[Chain]

How is that different from Toews in Chicago? It's pretty much the same exact situation, and they are such similar players.... I don't see any way Kopitar's agent isn't arguing for the exact same contract as Toews, or very close to it.

It's not a huge difference, but there are differences.

1) Toews is, in the opinion of many, a bit overpaid under his new contract. It eats up more of the cap than pretty much every other contract in the league.

2) Toews has Kane as his partner and they worked together to increase their collective bargaining power. This is no secret. This is why they sign the same deal. Meanwhile, Kopitar's friend and linemate Gaborik effectively took a paycut on the order of about a million to stay in LA. Obviously Gaborik is not Kane, but I think Kopitar realizes if they want to keep winning in the longrun, giving a bit personally is more likely to help that then trying to hardball his way to the biggest paycheck he can get.

3) Kopitar is one year further into his NHL career right now. At the point he signs his next contract he will be about 2 years longer in the NHL tooth than where Toews was when his new contract kicks in. Considering what we know about the average for players peak performance, that might mean a little.

4) Toews signed his contract this off-season when a lot of people thought the cap was going to be going up more in the next few years than it seems it is going to now. When he signed they just announced the new cap, which was below predictions. And now, it seems like that trend is going to continue even longer.

5) Kopitar is now married and has a kid. He moved his whole family from Slovenia to Los Angeles and bought his dad a house next to him. Toews is only from Winnipeg and didn't feel the need/desire to relocate his whole family. If Kopitar moves he's either going to be away from part of his family or have to relocate them again, which will be a pain in the ass for all involved.

6) Chicago isn't LA. Nothing against Chicago. It seems like a great city. But one of the big reasons people move to California is climate. No one moves to Chicago for the weather. You can't take that with you. Most of the cities with NHL teams don't have a climate as forgiving as LA. Most teams don't have a neighborhood like Manhattan Beach where all the players live and are walking distance to the beach. If Kopitar signed with a different team, it's a safe bet that most of the teams he could sign with aren't going to have a set up like that. That's an adjustment that he and his family members would have to make. Some of the ones that do have that kind of climate are going to be teams where he's taking a risk that his teammates might not be as likely to help him get to the cup again.

7) Last time Anze was up for a contract, didn't he basically tell his agent he didn't want to play hardball? I might be misremembering.

Huge differences? No. But add it all up, and I think if Kopi has the choice between going to another team for $13 million or sticking with the Kings for like $12, I think he stays.

I don't think Lombardi is going to try and play hardball with Anze, but I don't think Anze will play hardball either.