Player Discussion Mika Zibanejad: Part II

[Edge]

What evidence do you have? How do you know the problem isn't that he's dizzy and nauseous?

Like I said, we're all just speculating, but the problem we always run into is that you think your opinions are closer to fact than everyone else's.

The only people who have said "bruised sternum" are people in this thread. There's just as much validity to that, officially, as the concussion talk.

So first of all, the bruised sternum and whiplash thing was told others outside the organization, including a few reporters, and has come from multiple sources inside the organization.

But here's the thing, even if you don't believe that, Quinn himself also said chest..

So even if you think it's full of crap, the message has always been about the chest. There's a precedent there.

Beyond that, the length of time this has now taken would actually very much jive with the whole sternum thing and even jives with the RNH example that was provided, before he missed this much time.

So if I'm going completely off the rails, that's one thing. But literally everything I've shared to this point jives with (what little) has been said. So it's not like I said he had an injury that completely contradicts what was put out there.

 

[romba]

Weren't we kind of in the dark on Mcd's injuries at times? Like we saw him go flying a million miles an hour shoulder first crunching into the boards, falling in a broken heap with shoulder fragments lying on the ice and the team was like 'uhhhh....upper body injury....no more info at this time'. I could be remembering incorrectly here.

 

[Machinehead]

I do not think there is any revisioning going on. Nash's issues were known. There was no ambiguity.

Then where did the "groin concussion" comments come from?

 

[Machinehead]

So first of all, the bruised sternum and whiplash thing was told others outside the organization, including a few reporters, and has come from multiple sources inside the organization.

But here's the thing, even if you don't believe that, Quinn himself also said chest..

So even if you think it's full of crap, the message has always been about the chest. There's a precedent there.

Beyond that, the length of time this has now taken would actually very much jive with the whole sternum thing and even jives with the RNH example that was provided, before he missed this much time.

So if I'm going completely off the rails, that's one thing. But literally everything I've shared to this point jives with (what little) has been said. So it's not like I said he had an injury that completely contradicts what was put out there.

And everything people have said about him having a concussion jives with his injury history, the hit itself, and also the length of time. It's also not an injury that completely contradicts what we know.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that anything you said doesn't add up. The problem is that, as usual, you're dismissive of any alternative explanation.

 

[Edge]

And everything people have said about him having a concussion jives with his injury history, the hit itself, and also the length of time. It's also not an injury that completely contradicts what we know.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that anything you said doesn't add up. The problem is that, as usual, you're dismissive of any alternative explanation.

I'm dismissive of an alternative explanation that cites nothing.

I'm dismissive when it doesn't align with people I've worked with have shared.

I'm dismissive when it doesn't jive with reporters I talk to, who don't seem to be moving toward pursuing the idea.

I'm dismissive when the coaches comment mention chest, and that correlates with the above items.

I'm dismissive when the best alternative we can come up with is that he's had a concussion, so therefore he has one now.

I'm dismissive when I look at the hit, over and over, and it looks like his chest and neck took the brunt of the impact.

So, yeah. I tend to be dismissive on this one.

I get the frustration.

I get people's desire for more transparency.

I get the concern.

But literally hoping online every day, without any actual evidence, just saying it's a concussion, is not going to make me overlook any of the above. It's just not.

 

[NickyLongLegz]

Once again, as a clinical pharmacist I see people all the time come into the hospital with concussion symptoms only to have a neck sprain. Necks sprains typically manifest symptoms for a few weeks and even sometimes up to a couple months. The force from that hit went directly into his chest, and his neck whipped backwards. Whiplash neck strains also feel better some days and worse others. No need to panic just yet.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm dismissive of an alternative explanation that cites nothing.

I'm dismissive when it doesn't align with people I've worked with have shared.

I'm dismissive when it doesn't jive with reporters I talk to, who don't seem to be moving toward pursuing the idea.

I'm dismissive when the coaches comment mention chest, and that correlates with the above items.

I'm dismissive when the best alternative we can come up with is that he's had a concussion, so therefore he has one now.

I'm dismissive when I look at the hit, over and over, and it looks like his chest and neck took the brunt of the impact.

So, yeah. I tend to be dismissive on this one.

I get the frustration.

I get people's desire for more transparency.

I get the concern.

But literally hoping online every day, without any actual evidence, just saying it's a concussion, is not going to make me overlook any of the above. It's just not.

That's always it, ins't it?

You know people, so you know better than everyone else, always.

 

[Edge]

That's always it, ins't it?

You know people, so you know better than everyone else, always.

Fine, I’ll play devils advocate. Take everything I said and throw it out. We’ll pretend I don’t know anyone.

You’d still be left with Quinn’s comments about the chest.

You’d still have not a single reporter pursuing the concussion thing.

You’d still have scenario one which the team, the players association and the league were working together to hide a head related injury. The level of cooperation for that to happen would be unprecedented.

Or maybe you have what it is already: a really bad injury that isn’t a concussion.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Concussion.

 

[Machinehead]

Fine, I’ll play devils advocate. Take everything I said and throw it out. We’ll pretend I don’t know anyone.

You’d still be left with Quinn’s comments about the chest.

You’d still have not a single reporter pursuing the concussion thing.

You’d still have scenario one which the team, the players association and the league were working together to hide a head related injury. The level of cooperation for that to happen would be unprecedented.

Or maybe you have what it is already: a really bad injury that isn’t a concussion.

Not really because they do this with literally every injury. They're all upper/lower and we actually don't get the details on most of them. Acting as if this is some unprecedented tinfoil hat theory is extremely ahistorical.

And then we're left with a bunch of reasons you think it's a chest injury and a bunch of reasons I think it's a concussion, and neither of us know.

Except you do know, because you know everything.

 

[True Blue]

And everything people have said about him having a concussion jives with his injury history, the hit itself, and also the length of time. It's also not an injury that completely contradicts what we know.

What people have speculated on this as you do and where?

 

[True Blue]

Concussion.

Tumor

 

[Edge]

Not really because they do this with literally every injury. They're all upper/lower and we actually don't get the details on most of them. Acting as if this is some unprecedented tinfoil hat theory is extremely ahistorical.

And then we're left with a bunch of reasons you think it's a chest injury and a bunch of reasons I think it's a concussion, and neither of us know.

Except you do know, because you know everything.

Not at all. But I will admit that my opinion is shaped by people I trust and information they share.

So yeah, if it comes down to who is going to be a bigger influence, I’m obviously going to go lean toward someone who at least has a chance to have the scoop, and the coach who seems to say something remarkably similar.

But like I said, throw all that out. Quinn still specifically said chest. No?

 

[Edge]

Tumor

Hemorrhoids?

 

[True Blue]

Except you do know, because you know everything.

Not going to speak for Edge here, but his speculations are often supported by some sort of information that most others on here are not privy too. So he may not know everything (how can he, when clearly I do?) but his views are often not naked speculation. As opposed to the torrent of "It's a concussion!" claims.

 

[Machinehead]

Not at all. But I will admit that my opinion is sharped by people I trust and information they share.

So yeah, if it comes down to who is going to be a bigger influence, I’m obviously going to go lean toward someone who at least has a chance to have the scoop, and the coach who seems to say something remarkably similar.

But like I said, throw all that out. Quinn still specifically said chest. No?

He said chest/jaw which is extremely vague and they're not even connected.

 

[Machinehead]

Not going to speak for Edge here, but his speculations are often supported by some sort of information that most others on here are not privy too. So he may not know everything (how can he, when clearly I do?) but his views are often not naked speculation. As opposed to the torrent of "It's a concussion!" claims.

I explained exactly why the concussion claims are an educated guess and not naked explanation, but as usual, the old guard's opinions are more valid than everyone else's.

 

[Edge]

Not going to speak for Edge here, but his speculations are often supported by some sort of information that most others on here are not privy too. So he may not know everything (how can he, when clearly I do?) but his views are often not naked speculation. As opposed to the torrent of "It's a concussion!" claims.

Like I said.

Let’s assume I’ve asked no one.

Let’s assume the Rangers are annoyingly vague.

Let’s even assume the hit looks more devastating to the head than the chest.

You still have Quinn saying chest.

So, now we are beyond vagueness, sources, and a whole heap of other things.

Now we’re talking about Quinn lying.

He may not be the most forthcoming guy, especially on this issue. But I don’t have reason to believe he’s a liar. And that’s without hearing what I’ve heard, but willingly thrown out for the sake of this discussion.

 

[Edge]

He said chest/jaw which is extremely vague and they're not even connected.

So he’s said chest, but never said head or concussion?

So of the two “theories” floating out there, he’s actually said chest.

 

[Machinehead]

So he’s said chest, but never said head or concussion?

So of the two “theories” floating out there, he’s actually said chest.

Before he said chest, he said it's definitely not a concussion. And I find it extremely odd that that's the only specific detail we've heard.

This is a league that openly and actively covers up injuries.

 

[Edge]

Before he said chest, he said it's definitely not a concussion. And I find it extremely odd that that's the only specific detail we've heard.

This is a league that openly and actively covers up injuries.

Look, you’re own misgivings about the league notwithstanding, this is what I’ve got:

On one side I’ve got a coach, team sources and reporters saying one thing. And what they’re saying aligns with what I’m seeing on that hit.

On the other side, I’ve got 3 or 4 posters on here saying concussion.

Which one would you believe?

At some point, it becomes clear that one message has been consistent and doesn’t require a bunch of factors to work itself out.

Fine. The league isn’t forthcoming. But one’s refusal to believe the coach isn’t inherently tied to that complaint.

 

[Machinehead]

Look, you’re own misgivings about the league notwithstanding, this is what I’ve got:

On one side I’ve got a coach, team sources and reporters saying one thing. And what they’re saying aligns with what I’m seeing on that hit.

On the other side, I’ve got 3 or 4 posters on here saying concussion.

Which one would you believe?

At some point, it becomes clear that one message has been consistent and doesn’t require a bunch of factors to work itself out.

Fine. The league isn’t forthcoming. But one’s refusal to believe the coach isn’t inherently tied to that complaint.

What bunch of factors?

He's had handful of concussions, he took a hit and his head snapped back, and now he has a mysterious injury.

You don't have to agree, but you also don't have to dismiss it as a bunch of crazy people on the internet with a crazy theory.

The nutty conspiracy theorists were right about Nash.

 

[Kovalev27]

This league has hidden serious injuries for years. This recent upper body lower body thing is the latest incarnation of not directly lying. But I’m amazed that some would be surprised by an nhl team hiding an injury from the media. It’s only been that way for the entire history of the league.

 

[NernieBichols]

I'm dismissive of an alternative explanation that cites nothing.

I'm dismissive when it doesn't align with people I've worked with have shared.

I'm dismissive when it doesn't jive with reporters I talk to, who don't seem to be moving toward pursuing the idea.

I'm dismissive when the coaches comment mention chest, and that correlates with the above items.

I'm dismissive when the best alternative we can come up with is that he's had a concussion, so therefore he has one now.

I'm dismissive when I look at the hit, over and over, and it looks like his chest and neck took the brunt of the impact.

So, yeah. I tend to be dismissive on this one.

I get the frustration.

I get people's desire for more transparency.

I get the concern.

But literally hoping online every day, without any actual evidence, just saying it's a concussion, is not going to make me overlook any of the above. It's just not.

I, for one am glad your being dismissive on a possible concussion.

 

[NernieBichols]

This league has hidden serious injuries for years. This recent upper body lower body thing is the latest incarnation of not directly lying. But I’m amazed that some would be surprised by an nhl team hiding an injury from the media. It’s only been that way for the entire history of the league.

Thing is they would be covering up a rib or collarbone, or a sternum or partial muscle tear, bc teams would target him and just reaggarvate the injury.

They are definitely being evasive about the details but it’s only concussion they are evasive about. My question has been, is he around or away from the team. To me that answer speaks more to a concussion than the evasive answers. And he was spotted skating today, so there’s that