jkutswings
hot piss hockey
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I'm offended that you're holding me accountable for breaking the rules. So much so that I'm going to play the victim that you overreached.
OT: MIchigan Sports Thread: UM wins Natty Championship
- Thread starter Winger98
- Start date
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
The turn on this towards leaving the conference is laughable. Honestly, I double dare you U of M.
You know who was the third highest Athletic Department revenue in the state of Indiana, Notre Dame behind both Indiana and Purdue.
Would the B1G be materially damaged by a U of M departure, absolutely. They are the second biggest brand they have.
However @jaster ND isn't the model you should probably study on this. Texas is the most recent school that clearly did all this, they have better underlying metrics for some of how you would launch a independent including having the network and even they went across to the SEC. So really if you want to threaten leaving, fine enjoy the SEC, it is the only place that makes fiscal sense in leaving for, independence would leave you severally adrift of the other halves in football.
But honestly and I have hated U of M fans from the moment I was cursed out at Michigan Stadium as an 8 year old so the next part is with a little glee. If we take out the sex scandals of Nassar, Anderson, and Sandusky and keep this to the classic cheating. U of M is responsible for both the worst basketball and football instances of cheating in the last 4 decades. That the fan-base wants to keep the annoying smug attitude on it that it does everything else is in no way surprising. They helped lead the Golden Pants and tattoo suspensions with glee, well do onto others U of M. I also suggest you stop rampantly cheating in the major revenue sports or at least not do it with the arrogance and sloppiness that has caught you red handed twice in terms of major violations that yes require accountability and penalties.
You know who was the third highest Athletic Department revenue in the state of Indiana, Notre Dame behind both Indiana and Purdue.
Would the B1G be materially damaged by a U of M departure, absolutely. They are the second biggest brand they have.
However @jaster ND isn't the model you should probably study on this. Texas is the most recent school that clearly did all this, they have better underlying metrics for some of how you would launch a independent including having the network and even they went across to the SEC. So really if you want to threaten leaving, fine enjoy the SEC, it is the only place that makes fiscal sense in leaving for, independence would leave you severally adrift of the other halves in football.
But honestly and I have hated U of M fans from the moment I was cursed out at Michigan Stadium as an 8 year old so the next part is with a little glee. If we take out the sex scandals of Nassar, Anderson, and Sandusky and keep this to the classic cheating. U of M is responsible for both the worst basketball and football instances of cheating in the last 4 decades. That the fan-base wants to keep the annoying smug attitude on it that it does everything else is in no way surprising. They helped lead the Golden Pants and tattoo suspensions with glee, well do onto others U of M. I also suggest you stop rampantly cheating in the major revenue sports or at least not do it with the arrogance and sloppiness that has caught you red handed twice in terms of major violations that yes require accountability and penalties.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
RabidBadger
Mazur detractors will look like dummies!
Yeah, I don't think the conference that roped in USC and UCLA is shitting itself over UM's bluff of leaving. There's no way those fools leave a cash heavy conference like the B1g. Their only obstacle to the playoffs is OSU a majority of the years. Sure, go the Notre Dame route...you'll either have to schedule some wicked non-con games to make the playoffs or you'll play a weaker schedule and be overated and exposed when it matters. Better yet, join the SEC and never win a conference title. Buh-bye! Just more tantrums coming down from the ivory tower.
Just please spare me the bull**** that beating Penn St. somehow disproves cheating allegations. Michigan is a top 4 team and title contender, but they did that shit and got a pretty favorable "punishment" out of it.
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The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
I mean they are going to lose the last three years when the NCAA investigation completes. There is pretty little doubt of that. Lost in this is the NCAA provided a big line in the B1G ruling, providing context that they could already prove a major violation. For them to provide a statement to the B1G commissioner wasn't really as small of a deal to me as it seems to U of M fans.
It will be interesting, when they forfeit the 34 games won, they will fall behind Ohio State and Alabama on the all-time wins list. Now in my experience that would bother most U of M fans I know a lot. Now they are saying something about a national title that we know they will forfeit, but yeah I am pretty confused. At this point independent whatever, they have really stepped in it and are going to get hit with some pretty real things at some point next spring.
There were 2000+ words there my guy, I'm not skimming 8 pages lol.
So Michigan cheated. It is of your opinion that Michigan shouldn't get punished? Or that since Michigan wants to leave the Big10, this will allow them to since the Big10 broke the law by punishing Michigan? I'm honestly just trying to learn where you're coming from.
RabidBadger
Mazur detractors will look like dummies!
They will actually maintain their win status. I have it on good authority from UM fans that "everyone is doing this". Ergo, all teams shall have all wins from the past 3 years vacated. I, for one, although I feel I speak for ALL pursuers of justice, can not wait until this gospel truth is brought into the light!
ricky0034
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at this point as someone that normally doesn't follow college sports(or Football in general) at all i'm kinda rooting for Michigan a bit just due to how cringey all the moral indignation people have over them being stupid enough to get caught doing something everyone does is
RabidBadger
Mazur detractors will look like dummies!
Well, you're rooting for denial, petulance and indignation (not to mention stupidity, your quote, not mine)on a whole different level then. By your admission you think they're guilty. Fans deny or deflect saying everyone does it. Michigan plays the part of the petulant/butthurt child and threatens to leave the conference.
If this went down in Madison, I'm ecstatic my coach only loses 3 games...and still coaches the team during the week! Oh yeah, UM still gets to contend for a natty.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
You just want Batman-branded vigilante justice, not legally enforced punishment. At no point has Jaster said that Michigan and Harbaugh SHOULDN’T be punished when the dust settles, he’s just saying that before any action is settled on, the process should have played out.
Speaking of which…
The MSU fans who complain incessantly about how Michigan State’s players were suspended too quickly without sufficient evidence for the tunnel incident have flipped and are looking for immediate punishment and bypassing the process. And conversely the Michigan fans who applauded the quick punishment of MSU players are now asking for the process play out in accordance with the handbook or rules or bylaws.
Both sides are pathetic trying to gain a leg up on one another or play whataboutisms.
To think this would have never been a problem if the teams had just gone to headsets in the helmet, but nope here we are. And I wonder why college coaches have continued to stand in the way of calling in the play similar to the NFL. Certainly it’s more efficient and secure than poster boards and hand waving on the sideline.
People wonder why college sports are turning into unwatchable shit, look no further than college sports staying in the way of college sports.
jkutswings
hot piss hockey
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What does any of this have to do with MSU? Both football teams could disappear and it wouldn't really bother me.
If one or more other teams cheated, they should have the book thrown at them as well, to the extent that they broke the rules. But this is about what UM did. They most definitely cheated, and their continued attempts to shift the narrative away from admitting the wrongdoing and just taking their medicine is downright sad.
Let me preface this by saying I don't much care about either team in the grand scheme of things. This is a devil's advocate position because of the amount of people who are employing flawed logic in arriving at conclusions. It's not that Michigan shouldn't be punished, it's just a matter of when and how and who gets to determine it.
What does it have to do with MSU? Nothing specifically, it was a recent and similar issue regarding the immediate suspensions that just happened to work as an example. School A wants due process, School B wants immediate punishment. New scenario arises, School A wants immediate punishment, School B wants due process. It's pathetic on both sides. The bylaws and rules, including those for punishment for violation, exist for a reason. The schools pressuring the Big Ten for immediate punishment without a complete investigation are effectively asking for the Big Ten to cheat the process to punish Michigan for cheating. Surely you can understand how this is extremely contradictory and to be okay with it is a bad thing, or else you'd see no reason for law enforcement to not execute anyone accused of a crime without first completing a full investigation.
Honestly, it's probably more influential in the grand scheme of things. A governing body that will cast aside it's own contractual agreements out of convenience because other people got their feelings hurt (more likely they see this as an opportunity to get a shot in) is a Pandora's Box that none of the schools should be comfortable with. A cheating scandal can be remedied with suspensions, fines, scholarship limits, bowl bans, vacated wins, etc. A big, litigious nightmare that results in the potential undermining of the reputation of the biggest athletic conference in college sports? Seems like a bigger deal, but what do I know... nothing has ever happened to major organizations, FIFA was never a real thing, Arthur Andersen didn't fail due to corruption and greed, etc.
Regarding Michigan, everything that they've put forth doesn't explicitly say that they admit it, but they also don't issue a defense claim that nothing happened. They are playing the game of plausible deniability in my eyes. They aren't saying that Stalions didn't cheat, but they are acting as if they didn't know the extent to which he was and that they remedied the situation. Should it be punishable? Probably. Michigan seems to be just aggressively taking the position of "you can't punish me because I didn't know and I fixed it when I learned more." Which shouldn't be a legitimate excuse, but when you marry that with the Big Ten's apparent overreach, now you get this pile of shit.
I think all three sides will come out of this in the wrong. Big Ten and Michigan likely in a very public fashion and the other schools will probably fly under the radar, but whether people want to admit it or not, it's not a good look to do what they've done to this point.
izlez
Carter Mazur Fan Club
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When you have proof they cheated, there is no reason to wait to begin punishment. (Can't wait until next year when we get to hear the "why are you punishing kids that weren't even on the team" excuse)
Sure, the investigation is ongoing. But that will only uncover more cheating and more people involved. This punishment is with the assumption that others weren't involved. Waiting until you uncover every single aspect of the cheating to begin punishment is nonsense.
Sure, the investigation is ongoing. But that will only uncover more cheating and more people involved. This punishment is with the assumption that others weren't involved. Waiting until you uncover every single aspect of the cheating to begin punishment is nonsense.
I don't follow college sports. I don't care about the schools involved. But what Michigan seems to have done seems trivial to me. And it sounds like other schools have done similar wrongs, with a very weakly defined use of the word wrong. Punish michigan, but whoever the leader of the Big Ten is screwed up doing this in a way that allowed it to become such a stupidly large issue, and whoever else in the big ten who was banging the drum for this escalation should have their sticks taken away.
I'm looking forward to people getting back to just talking about the lions before they do something bizarre and break everyone's hearts again.
I'm looking forward to people getting back to just talking about the lions before they do something bizarre and break everyone's hearts again.
Yeah, let's execute people before their guilt is proven. I don't care for Michigan or college football, but this is just so wrong on so many levels. Maybe I should stop being surpised how partisanship/fandom is more important than common sense, but i just can't help myself.
izlez
Carter Mazur Fan Club
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There are photos. There are videos. There are literal receipts. Guilt has been proven.
Weird how you want to throw partisanship/fandom into this without any clue where I stand
izlez
Carter Mazur Fan Club
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If you see an employee stealing from the cash register, do you fire them on the spot and start looking into how many other times they may have stole, or do you begin a months long investigation to account for every single penny they stole before taking any action?
ricky0034
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2010
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weird analogy
the equivalent of firing an employee when they get caught stealing here would be more along the lines of Connor Stalions being forced to resign(which happened)
this is more along the lines of giving out jail time before doing the investigation
izlez
Carter Mazur Fan Club
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I see where you're coming from. But also, trying to introduce jail time into an analogy will completely fall apart because well there's a constitution and a whole lot of protections that apply that don't apply here
newfy
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No, my opinion is that if they are going to be punished, it should be done according to the rules and bylaws set out to dole out punishment. What happened with that 3 game suspension to Harbaugh was against the bylaws, it would be like getting caught doing a crime, the judge rules youre guilty before trial plays out AND hands out a bigger sentence than the law says theyre allowed to.
Theres a lot of nuance and factors into Michigan leaving the B1G, including research agreements and things like that soI'm not going to say they should or shouldnt based on this situation. But, if they wanted to, it seems like they would have their way out instead of 2030 by saying their bylaws werent followed in this situation.
The big ten jumped the gun on the suspension, waited until Harbaugh was on a plane 20 hours before game time, and let him and the AD find out on social media about it
You've been all over this thread acting like this suspension was deserved, "guilt has been proven" etc..... why did the B1G admit they have no evidence tying Harbaugh to the sign stealing then? Read up a little bit before spouting off
In 13 Page Letter To Michigan, Big Ten Admits it Has No Evidence Linking Harbaugh To Sign-Stealing
The Big Ten Conference has suspended Jim Harbaugh, but the conference admits it has no evidence supporting Harbaugh to the sign-stealing allegations
www.si.com
You mean there isn’t a Big Ten handbook/rulebook and bylaws and contract language that was poured over by lawyers upon lawyers before both sides entered a legally binding agreement in which both sides are held to their promises? Why does contract law exist if not to protect both sides’ interests?
Truth be told, I think that Michigan probably does deserve punishment of some sort immediately because of Stalions and the benefit he could have created. I don’t think punishing Harbaugh at this moment without credible evidence of his personal involvement was the way to do that.
If the Big Ten would have hit them with substantial financial penalty and said there would be potential suspensions to come, I think this is a non-issue. Again, I don’t think Michigan has ever said that nothing happened regarding Stalions, which means they should have expected some repercussion.
Who knows, the one certain thing is that Michigan will play victim but this time they may have a good enough reason to do so. It shouldn’t overshadow the fact that they still did something wrong and it shouldn’t be significant enough to runaway from the conference. Just get some adults in the room who aren’t throwing massive ego trips.
izlez
Carter Mazur Fan Club
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You really can't wrap your head around the idea that that is how the team is being punished because the team cheated? Pretty sure it is in the same sentenceYou've been all over this thread acting like this suspension was deserved, "guilt has been proven" etc..... why did the B1G admit they have no evidence tying Harbaugh to the sign stealing then? Read up a little bit before spouting off
In 13 Page Letter To Michigan, Big Ten Admits it Has No Evidence Linking Harbaugh To Sign-Stealing
The Big Ten Conference has suspended Jim Harbaugh, but the conference admits it has no evidence supporting Harbaugh to the sign-stealing allegations
izlez
Carter Mazur Fan Club
- Feb 28, 2012
- 5,061
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Because contracts are different than laws you don't have the right to a speedy trial to a jury of your peers, the right to an attorney, etc. every time your boss sends you home from work.
This is very very different than being sent to jail.
newfy
Registered User
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And once again, you cant wrap your head around the fact that it goes against the big ten bylaws to punish the team that way. Which is why theres an ongoing court injunction and talk of Michigan leaving the Big Ten. Keep up
