OT: MIchigan Sports Thread: UM wins Natty Championship

[jkutswings]

Most will tout this as a win for the Big Ten and a loss for Michigan. It just feels like two sides that know they are in the gray area and would rather not be exposed as such.

Fair. But I think another part of it is that the conference has reason to believe the NCAA will eventually have additional findings and disciplinary action, so there's not a big incentive to risk that gray area to pad things now, when it'll eventually happen anyway.

 

[RabidBadger]

On the other hand, what does the Big Ten gain by walking away from their investigation if they had anything that resembled smoke beyond the Stalions thing? They apparently had leverage with Michigan yielding to the first suspension, why not see it through and step on the throat?

My suspicion is that Michigan wasn’t confident enough that they could get an injunction in the first place so they tried to end the entire saga with the Big Ten, and the Big Ten had acquired no more evidence than what they had to make the first suspension due to lack of institutional control. Rather than either side turning it into a legal circus with both sides staking reputation, they agree to both piss off.

Most will tout this as a win for the Big Ten and a loss for Michigan. It just feels like two sides that know they are in the gray area and would rather not be exposed as such.

I can reasonably assume the big ten has little desire/incentive to drop the hammer on one of their biggest cash cows, especially during a title pursuit. It acts against their own self interest to a large degree if you potentially omit UM from the CFP.

It seems like punitive measures fell on the big ten to doll out by attrition. I'm sure their relatively new commissioner would have loved to avoid the spotlight and have had the NCAA take the reigns. As it is, I would say both sides made out well. The big ten gets to act like they restored law and order to the conference and Michigan gets a relatively light punishment. Plus, they get to compete for a national title and the big ten gets to potentially reap the financial windfall from it.

 

[izlez]

everyone of course has their own opinion on what something that happened being taken away after the fact would mean but honestly this image I saw a couple days ago sums up pretty well how I feel on that subject and I would wager a great many people feel the same(probably a majority to be honest, especially for people that don't already have a vested interest in this stuff like I don't)

View attachment 768679

That's crazy to me. The Red Wings "win" a Stanley Cup by playing by a completely different set of rules than everyone else, you'll still celebrate it?

I fundamentally do not understand why you like sports. Like at all.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Fair. But I think another part of it is that the conference has reason to believe the NCAA will eventually have additional findings and disciplinary action, so there's not a big incentive to risk that gray area to pad things now, when it'll eventually happen anyway.

Would it shock anyone at this point if the NCAA just drags ass for months and eventually says they were unable to find anything conclusive beyond the initial Stalions info and that Michigan has already served a 3 game punishment enforced by the Big Ten and there will be no further investigation or punishment?

I feel like that’s where this is headed. Of course if they find something that directly ties Harbaugh or either coordinator specifically to the scheme, then we might be looking at a new hellscape of media drama and faux legal threats.

 

[Winger98]

Would it shock anyone at this point if the NCAA just drags ass for months and eventually says they were unable to find anything conclusive beyond the initial Stalions info and that Michigan has already served a 3 game punishment enforced by the Big Ten and there will be no further investigation or punishment?

I feel like that’s where this is headed. Of course if they find something that directly ties Harbaugh or either coordinator specifically to the scheme, then we might be looking at a new hellscape of media drama and faux legal threats.

not really. But if they can implode college sports and make it not a thing going forward they can keep nuking themselves.

Still waiting for Ilitch to bring some big energy to the Tigers with a massive Ohtani offer.

 

[izlez]

Would it shock anyone at this point if the NCAA just drags ass for months and eventually says they were unable to find anything conclusive beyond the initial Stalions info and that Michigan has already served a 3 game punishment enforced by the Big Ten and there will be no further investigation or punishment?

I feel like that’s where this is headed. Of course if they find something that directly ties Harbaugh or either coordinator specifically to the scheme, then we might be looking at a new hellscape of media drama and faux legal threats.

Just so we can establish the rules, we're going with: the investigation NCAA taking a LONG time is the bad one. And quick action is what is needed.

So if the NCAA acts quickly, we're NOT gonna whine and complain about how they didn't get "due process"?

 

[Hen Kolland]

Just so we can establish the rules, we're going with: the investigation NCAA taking a LONG time is the bad one. And quick action is what is needed.

So if the NCAA acts quickly, we're NOT gonna whine and complain about how they didn't get "due process"?

No? I’m saying the NCAA generally sucks at everything they do, so I’m expecting them to go radio silent for a while, then show up randomly after even you of all people have moved on and say “remember that thing? Yeah nothing is happening and we’re done now”

 

[jaster]

Just so we can establish the rules, we're going with: the investigation NCAA taking a LONG time is the bad one. And quick action is what is needed.

So if the NCAA acts quickly, we're NOT gonna whine and complain about how they didn't get "due process"?

This game of "gotcha!" you've continually tried to play is one of the strangest I've seen. There is a place that exists between "acting quickly" and "taking a long time." There are investigations that include adhering to established bylaws, due process, and expediency.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

When I was 5, a guy at Tiger Stadium looked at me, said he didn’t like kids, and put his cigarette out on my arm, aNd So F*cK tHe DeTrOiT tIgErS fOrEvEr

If they were also insufferable aholes for the next 35 years it makes sense. Hey you own being dead wrong yet? How is the legal battle and the conference exit going?

It is the genesis of the hate. Yes cursing out and throwing shit at an 8 year old because Desmond Howard couldn’t stay on his feet is pretty horrific. First time my father would go back was for my sister’s graduation. But it wasn’t a singular qualifying event either so cool story put more weird caps. Honestly the worst fan base I have come across in my life and willing to say that. Run Marquette bball if you like. I actually thought growing up it wasn’t the U of M alumni but the hanger on fans. I think long ago that proved untrue, but the last month has removed any shred of doubt.

Wonderful academic institution to be clear, just cannot stand the fan base. It’s like if you combined general Boston fan, general Chicago fan and Maple Leafs fans and rolled them into a turd sushi roll.

For the record if that was your reaction in your strange fictional dig on my true share, it would make logical sense. I have never worn the away teams gear to a game since. So yeah it is personal and yeah being around it day in day out for the next 20 years wasn’t awesome. Mostly what this event has reminded me of is even having moved away they seriously grate on my nerves. We are all allowed to have our opinions and our fandom.

Level another funny insult, I don’t think getting stitches should come along with going to a game much less on a kid…

 

[jkutswings]

It’s like if you combined general Boston fan, general Chicago fan and Maple Leafs fans and rolled them into a turd sushi roll.

If that fan also cares about whether you are old money or new money, you nailed it.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I’m as maize and blue as they come, but gotta respect how quickly Nightingale has righted the ship there. MSU puck very much appears to be back.

 

[RabidBadger]

I’m as maize and blue as they come, but gotta respect how quickly Nightingale has righted the ship there. MSU puck very much appears to be back.

That was a statement weekend for them in a matchup of former cellar dwellers turned contender. Great showing by Spartacus.

 

[Konnan511]

Hard to win when no one decides to show up. Pitiful.

 

[Konnan511]

Hard to win when no one decides to show up. Pitiful.

Idiot.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

And some thought Hutch shouldn’t have been drafted high

 

[MabusIncarnate]

Thought they were gonna lose, they were playing like it was gonna be a stinker. Then they managed to figure it out late and won another. 8-2!!

 

[raymond23]

Warts and all, this is a special team. Don’t take it for granted. This is the f***ing Lions we’re talking about

Can Dan Campbell coach the red wings?

 

[jaster]

If they were also insufferable aholes for the next 35 years it makes sense. Hey you own being dead wrong yet? How is the legal battle and the conference exit going?

Dead wrong about what?

It is the genesis of the hate. Yes cursing out and throwing shit at an 8 year old because Desmond Howard couldn’t stay on his feet is pretty horrific. First time my father would go back was for my sister’s graduation. But it wasn’t a singular qualifying event either so cool story put more weird caps. Honestly the worst fan base I have come across in my life and willing to say that. Run Marquette bball if you like. I actually thought growing up it wasn’t the U of M alumni but the hanger on fans. I think long ago that proved untrue, but the last month has removed any shred of doubt.

Wonderful academic institution to be clear, just cannot stand the fan base. It’s like if you combined general Boston fan, general Chicago fan and Maple Leafs fans and rolled them into a turd sushi roll.

For the record if that was your reaction in your strange fictional dig on my true share, it would make logical sense. I have never worn the away teams gear to a game since. So yeah it is personal and yeah being around it day in day out for the next 20 years wasn’t awesome. Mostly what this event has reminded me of is even having moved away they seriously grate on my nerves. We are all allowed to have our opinions and our fandom.

Level another funny insult, I don’t think getting stitches should come along with going to a game much less on a kid…

I'm not a therapist, so I can't directly help you, but indirectly... you should see a therapist. 'I used to think it was just some Michigan fans who are bad, but now I know it's ALL of them.' The fact that people can say that kinda thing (about any group) and not realize how ignorant it is.... well, yikes. Blanket statements and stereotypes are the product of irrational hatred and lazy thinking. You're better than that.

As a Michigan alum, one is easily exposed to more anti-Michigan BS and whining than Michigan haters are exposed to their imaginary affronts. Usually just boils down to jealousy and envy, and then an exaggeration of half-truths inflated with hyperbole. Over and over and over. I've seen it for 25 years. It's a psychosis for some.

So, no, I don't believe your story word-for-word, especially since it went from getting cursed out to now... getting stitches? Huh? Did you press charges? And yes, having had absolutely no interaction with the guy up to that moment, I had a stranger put a cigarette out on my arm when I was 5. It didn't make me hate any college or sports team, just individual human beings who are willing to put a cigarette out on a 5 year old's arm. Maybe I'm doing it wrong though.

As for insults, step back and look at all the hatred you've posted about the Michigan fanbase in this thread, filled with insults that you've applied as a generalization of the entire UM community, as if that's ok in this thread because it's not explicitly aimed at an individual.... and then ask with a straight face to not get flak back. Pretty ridiculous.

 

[Bondurant]

And some thought Hutch shouldn’t have been drafted high

More than a few Lions fans wanted Malik Willis at 2OA instead of "Bustinson".

 

[jkutswings]

As a Michigan alum, one is easily exposed to more anti-Michigan BS and whining than Michigan haters are exposed to their imaginary affronts. Usually just boils down to jealousy and envy, and then an exaggeration of half-truths inflated with hyperbole. Over and over and over. I've seen it for 25 years. It's a psychosis for some.

Play the victim? Check.

Claim that others are just jealous? Check.

Paint others with a broad brush, immediately after harping about using stereotypes? Check.

Gee, I wonder why anybody would ever have a negative opinion of that university...

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Dead wrong about what?


I'm not a therapist, so I can't directly help you, but indirectly... you should see a therapist. 'I used to think it was just some Michigan fans who are bad, but now I know it's ALL of them.' The fact that people can say that kinda thing (about any group) and not realize how ignorant it is.... well, yikes. Blanket statements and stereotypes are the product of irrational hatred and lazy thinking. You're better than that.

As a Michigan alum, one is easily exposed to more anti-Michigan BS and whining than Michigan haters are exposed to their imaginary affronts. Usually just boils down to jealousy and envy, and then an exaggeration of half-truths inflated with hyperbole. Over and over and over. I've seen it for 25 years. It's a psychosis for some.

So, no, I don't believe your story word-for-word, especially since it went from getting cursed out to now... getting stitches? Huh? Did you press charges? And yes, having had absolutely no interaction with the guy up to that moment, I had a stranger put a cigarette out on my arm when I was 5. It didn't make me hate any college or sports team, just individual human beings who are willing to put a cigarette out on a 5 year old's arm. Maybe I'm doing it wrong though.

As for insults, step back and look at all the hatred you've posted about the Michigan fanbase in this thread, filled with insults that you've applied as a generalization of the entire UM community, as if that's ok in this thread because it's not explicitly aimed at an individual.... and then ask with a straight face to not get flak back. Pretty ridiculous.

Sweet so now I am liar. Maybe it isn’t a story I necessarily like going in depth on. Probably because you like a complete ass faked actual physical injury. I wound up with five stitches above the eye because I was hit with a bottle thrown while saying **** MSU and I was wearing the shirt. No you leave that scene when it feels like the mob is descending. I can forgive you the ignorance having not been there or maybe it’s just the learned ignorance you seem to be acing the course across all of Ann Arbor in lately, so way to channel your inner Wolverine.

Yes, there was a grouping in on this issue. The only people attempting to defend it were saying things even though the known details clearly pointed to serious violations. The only response from the alumni to students right on up to the top of the University at the Presidential level was this false bravado. Lo and behold U of M didn’t exit the conference, U of M did put its tail between its legs and accept punishment. They didn’t fight it in the legal system where they had a very dubious challenge ahead. They are going to get hammered by NCAA whenever that decision comes.

I wanted to have the conversation it’s why I didn’t ask the others Mods to look to take it down and responded the way I did, because you did personally offend me while trolling. We have posted here a long time, I don’t have to agree with all takes. My opinion of U of M has been crystal clear the whole way and yes on this board it puts me in the minority. I have been far more vocal on this because it’s madness to accept that boosters, failure of institutional control, failure to cooperate which was on the table until last Friday all carry Level 1 violations. I don’t have to say nice things about them and I won’t. I don’t have to listen to delusional escape plans when the actual rules are available right online. I can be gleeful they will soon be punished harshly for another time for egregious NCAA violations.

That doesn’t come from jealousy or lack of therapy. I don’t come to this board for validation or to lie. Maybe some do, I really stayed in touch with it because I moved to a place where nobody watches hockey. Honestly this board has been a little hard to come to on that front lately anyway.

Dead wrong about what…

Sorry your glass house got hit.

People post hateful things about fanbases all the time on this board. Do we take down every Boston post, Chicago post or Toronto post. You can feel that but yes I am criticizing the fanbase. Yes, I really also haven’t experienced great times in Ann Arbor. You’re openly criticizing just me and alleging lying. Cool, so like none of the things you were saying were going to happen have happened yet… Thanks for the life advice doing just fine, sorry your joke sucked this time, I have liked plenty in the past, it isn’t going to happen on this subject.

 

[Konnan511]

Aight I'm out of this convo. Too many butthurt people and people trauma-dumping.

How bout' them Lions? Any Thanksgiving traditions ya'll do? Mine is have "dinner" around 1 PM and watch the Lions lose. We might actually see them win this year! And green bean casserole, love me my green bean casserole.

 

[19 for president]

Aight I'm out of this convo. Too many butthurt people and people trauma-dumping.

How bout' them Lions? Any Thanksgiving traditions ya'll do? Mine is have "dinner" around 1 PM and watch the Lions lose. We might actually see them win this year! And green bean casserole, love me my green bean casserole.

I think I'm going to remain no more than cautiously optimistic about the Lions until they win a Superbowl.

They should be GB but I also still have flashbacks of being mobbed by Packer fans after the Rodgers Hail Mary, so I will enjoy the hopefully competitive football as it happens

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

More than a few Lions fans wanted Malik Willis at 2OA instead of "Bustinson".

I was so proudly against Malik Willis. Guy lost the job to Bo Nix as an inexperienced QB and then ran to Liberty where he showed out against a ludicrously weak schedule. Saw him the bowl game vs. EMU that year... His WRs were getting like 15 yards free run on bombs. It was insane. I could not see what the people were talking about when hyping him up as a multi-time Pro Bowler and/or the next Michael Vick. I mean, god damn, at a P5 school in Va. Tech, Michael Vick was literal cheat codes. In the NFL he was still basically a human highlight reel.

So happy they drafted Hutchinson instead. He was a pleasure to watch on Saturdays in Ann Arbor and even moreso on Sundays in Detroit.

When is Mikey Sainristil slotted? I would give a lot to see him in Honolulu Blue as well. Man is a dawg.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

On the Michigan front... I will say two things.

1) They absolutely lacked institutional control with this and should fry for it. They had coaches allegedly telling players what to say to the media, boosters getting involved with coaches to perpetrate the in-person scouting, as well as the other recruiting violations during the COVID dead period. They cheated and broke rules and should face punishment for it.

But

2) There should also be some temperance on the penalty (Re; sign stealing). It is something that is done by literally every competitor since the beginning of time. It isn't some earth shattering, integrity of the game bombshell. All the talk of "Oh, they should have the option to not play the game" was always nonsense. And teams in the Big Ten will see the next time they do something that everyone else pushing for penalties immediately without the notice of allegations or the proper procedure being followed is not a great thing. Even if you're guilty as sin (and it looks like Michigan is guilty of a lot), you deserve your day in court without the presumption of guilt.

More than anything, this needs to be a wakeup call to the NCAA to just let there be f***in microphones in the helmets. What Michigan did is akin to hopping into the carpool lane to pass someone in rush hour traffic when they're driving by themselves. Perfectly legal action in other circumstances when the left lane is open, but not so much at that point.