Confirmed with Link: Meier, Harrington, 3 prospects, Col's '24 5th to Devils for 2023 1st, Zetterlund, Johanson, Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin, conditional 2024 1st, '24 7th

[STL Shark]

The only problem I have with the trade is the 2024 first being conditional. I think if you get the two 1st + Zetterlund + Muk + Oky that is a really good trade. There is a reasonably good chance that 2024 first conveys. Complaining about the 2023 1st being top 2 protected is dumb. There is basically a 0% chance that happens. The Devils would literally have to lose all of their remaking games. I don’t even care about the 2024 pick being top 10 protected. With as good as New Jersey is and how young they are that protection likely won’t matter. Plus if they somehow are terrible next year then we get a 2025 unprotected 1st. The only reason teams protect picks now is because of DW’s stupidity of not protecting the 1st they traded for Karlsson. As far as not getting a “high upside” prospect, when is the last time a legitimate top 10 prospect was traded for a player with 1 1/2 years of control? Probably Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat which was one of the worst trades in history. We were never going to get Mercer, Nemec, or Hughes just like when the Sharks were interested in Rick Nash and refused to trade a 21 year old Logan Couture or Tomas Hertl. Rick Nash + a 3rd ended up getting Anisomov, Dubinsky, Tim Erixon, and a 1st. Would you rather of had that return?

I love the Nash trade revisit. That was one that I went back to last week thinking about a return. DW was over the moon for Nash because he fit the profile we needed and was Jumbo's buddy. Columbus wanted Couture and DW said no just like Grier probably wanted Mercer/Jarvis and their respective teams said no.

 

[hohosaregood]

This is what a rebuild deal tends to look like on someone good you’re not willing to extend. I don’t think this speeds things up any like Grier said but it’s still better than keeping Meier. Meier wasn’t going to win us games enough to make the playoffs but was going to win us enough games to keep us from getting that sort of talent from the draft. I wish he maintained this mentality as it related to Karlsson as he’s doing more in this regard but I’m sure that’ll happen in time.

Zetterlund is an alright young roster player. A 3rd liner on a good team that’ll get a crack at our top six.

Muk is a solid prospect with a good chance at making our top four at a time when we will have flushed some depth contracts off the blue line.

Okhotiuk will probably replace MacDonald when his deal is done.

If they can use the two picks acquired to get a solid player then it’s a good deal for the team. It’s just going to take a long time. The Sharks need at least four or five top talents from the draft to really turn things around and are still basically at one with their pick in the upcoming draft being the one.

Grier did say that he doesn't want us spinning out wheels anymore so you could interpret it as speeding up the teardown and tank more so than speeding up the retool to compete

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Cas]

He looks like Lars Ulrich.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Grier did say that he doesn't want us spinning out wheels anymore so you could interpret it as speeding up the teardown and tank more so than speeding up the retool to compete

I wouldn’t mind speeding up the tear down but that really only requires them moving Karlsson. I think you can keep what’s left and rebuild around them until their deals expire.

 

[hohosaregood]

I wouldn’t mind speeding up the tear down but that really only requires them moving Karlsson. I think you can keep what’s left and rebuild around them until their deals expire.

With the rumors that have been going around, it's totally possible that Karlsson will be in play this summer. If that happens, then maybe we start to look into Hertl or Couture getting moved too. Kinda feels like a potential set of dominoes.

 

[DrFeelgood]

With the rumors that have been going around, it's totally possible that Karlsson will be in play this summer. If that happens, then maybe we start to look into Hertl or Couture getting moved too. Kinda feels like a potential set of dominoes.

I don't think they would trade Hertl, they need a face of the franchise to build around that is recognizable and can pass the torch when that time comes. I could definitely see them moving on from Couture though

 

[jarr92]

Obviously Grier asked for Nemec, Hughes, Mercer, Jarvis, and Nikishin, but that wasn't going to happen unfortunately. The most valuable asset in the current NHL is money/cap space, which makes those players basically untradeable.

Maybe the trade stings less for me because I can still vividly remember Meier putting in terrible effort in 2020-2021. Hopefully NJ gets to the ECF then sucks next season. 2 1st round picks + Mukh + Zetterlund + Okhotyuk is a good haul, if the 1st becomes a 2nd then it's just a decent haul. Time will tell.

 

[Shark Finn]

Damn, this trade broke the fanbase. Can't wait to see the reaction after the draft doesn't go as we want.

 

[TheBeard]

He looks like Lars Ulrich.

GIMME FUEL
GIMME FIRE
GIMME FABIAN ZULRICH-AH!

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

How is everyone feeling the morning after the big trade? Thoughts changed?

Meier was the only current Shark I still cared for, so while yesterday sucked, its a new beginning today. I could not care less who stays or goes now, and I really don't care what the Sharks return is for any of the guys they have left. Bedard or Bust.

 

[TheBeard]

Damn, this trade broke the fanbase. Can't wait to see the reaction after the draft doesn't go as we want.

The problem with message boards is that when situations like this arise opinions on players get swayed so easily that random poster opinions end up carrying more weight than the experts that do this for a living.

Am I qualified to judge him as a negotiator? Yes I am.

Why, because you trade stocks? That's like me saying I work at McDonalds so I'm qualified to judge how a farmer raises their livestock.

 

[Shark Finn]

The problem with message boards is that when situations like this arise opinions on players get swayed so easily that random poster opinions end up carrying more weight than the experts that do this for a living.

I know right. I guess it's a part of the fun but I can admit I don't know shit and never ever will even try to seem like I know

 

[Pinkfloyd]

With the rumors that have been going around, it's totally possible that Karlsson will be in play this summer. If that happens, then maybe we start to look into Hertl or Couture getting moved too. Kinda feels like a potential set of dominoes.

At least with Couture and Hertl, I don’t feel like it’s going to be as necessary like it is with Karlsson to move him as it relates to the on ice results. With Hertl and Couture, I’m only moving them if they ask out which doesn’t seem likely but could change.

 

[exchequer]

Why, because you trade stocks? That's like me saying I work at McDonalds so I'm qualified to judge how a farmer raises their livestock.

No because GMMG says it's not a rebuild when it clearly is.

Damn, this trade broke the fanbase. Can't wait to see the reaction after the draft doesn't go as we want.

The trade is the confirmation that the Sharks are in rebuild mode. So yes, it broke the fanbase. Who wants to pay NHL money when the AHL product is arguably better?

 

[Shark Finn]

The trade is the confirmation that the Sharks are in rebuild mode. So yes, it broke the fanbase. Who wants to pay NHL money when the AHL product is arguably better?

True and they should. It was inevitable but it's a new situation. Not fun. Waiting for the draft now.

 

[Jargon]

This is what a rebuild deal tends to look like on someone good you’re not willing to extend. I don’t think this speeds things up any like Grier said but it’s still better than keeping Meier. Meier wasn’t going to win us games enough to make the playoffs but was going to win us enough games to keep us from getting that sort of talent from the draft. I wish he maintained this mentality as it related to Karlsson as he’s doing more in this regard but I’m sure that’ll happen in time.

Zetterlund is an alright young roster player. A 3rd liner on a good team that’ll get a crack at our top six.

Muk is a solid prospect with a good chance at making our top four at a time when we will have flushed some depth contracts off the blue line.

Okhotiuk will probably replace MacDonald when his deal is done.

If they can use the two picks acquired to get a solid player then it’s a good deal for the team. It’s just going to take a long time. The Sharks need at least four or five top talents from the draft to really turn things around and are still basically at one with their pick in the upcoming draft being the one.

I can’t say there exactly at one. Let’s say 2 and a half if Bystedt works out. I think Eklund is a very high end talent and is developing really well.

But yes, agreed to your general point.

 

[karltonian]

Has anyone mentioned that we finally get out from under the Timo handpass goal? If and when we ever get back to the playoffs maybe we will get a call again.

Heck maybe it will even happen in the regular season.

 

[exchequer]

At least with Couture and Hertl, I don’t feel like it’s going to be as necessary like it is with Karlsson to move him as it relates to the on ice results. With Hertl and Couture, I’m only moving them if they ask out which doesn’t seem likely but could change.

These guys will have value at the trade deadline if the sharks are willing to eat a part of their contracts so I agree there is no urgency to move them away.

 

[Selachimorpha]

For the sake of hypotheticals, if we want to net a top-10 draft pick out of this trade our rooting interests probably go something like this (assume NJD makes playoffs this year and doesn't crap the bed in 2023):

1) NJD to the ECF in 2023. This gives us a very late 2023 1st and a 2024 1st.
2) NJD pulls a 19/20 Sharks in 2024. NJD probably keeps their 2024 1st in lieu of their 2025 unprotected 1st.
3) NJD really craps out again in 2025. Profit.

That is, we essentially need this year to be a fluke or for injuries to get them.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I can’t say there exactly at one. Let’s say 2 and a half if Bystedt works out. I think Eklund is a very high end talent and is developing really well.

But yes, agreed to your general point.

Possibly but I view the top four in the draft more like Thornton caliber players than Eklund or Bystedt who I’d view more as Marleau or Couture. You need both but you can function as a competitive team without Marleau or Couture. You can’t without a Thornton. I think Karlsson is that kind of guy but we did a shit job transitioning to him and they killed that window of opportunity.

 

[Jargon]

Possibly but I view the top four in the draft more like Thornton caliber players than Eklund or Bystedt who I’d view more as Marleau or Couture. You need both but you can function as a competitive team without Marleau or Couture. You can’t without a Thornton. I think Karlsson is that kind of guy but we did a shit job transitioning to him and they killed that window of opportunity.

I think Eklund has a chance to enter that next tier, but you’re probably right.

What I like about Eklund is he seems like a really smart kid who tackles development really well. They asked him to shoot: now he’s scoring goals almost every game. He’s gotten used to the NA rinks, he’s taken off in the last 20 or so games… he seems to be getting better and better, and he’s already good. So, I’m hopeful.

But of course, Thornton is a hall of famer - those guys come around everyone once in a while (come on Bedard..!)

 

[STL Shark]

Grier did say that he doesn't want us spinning out wheels anymore so you could interpret it as speeding up the teardown and tank more so than speeding up the retool to compete

I don't think I would take the wheel metaphor literally. Basically, he is saying they're going to stop doing the same things that they've been doing from a roster construction/core standpoint as it is getting them nowhere. Basically declare a path and execute a plan based on that path. I don't think he's looking to go down the Arizona or Chicago path of losing for 5+ years. I think we're honestly ahead of Chicago even though we've been better over the last 5 years than them. Their GM made a stupid move mortgaging future assets for Seth Jones and saddled a long-term deal to him. Our interim GM was only stupid enough to forego more assets for Hertl and tack on a long-term contract.

If we were able to get a candid plan from Grier, I think it would be something like this:
- Acquire elite young prospect in 2023 draft and see if you can find another top 4 D or top 6 player with the combination of the NJD pick and your 2nd rounder (whether that be making 2 picks or packaging them together to move back into the top 15 for 1 pick).
- Get some NHL players in Fabbro, Greenway, etc. in the mold of Benning, Sturm, etc. from last offseason that can help insulate the youngsters a bit, though still knowing 2023-24 is going to be another bottom 5 in the league year after you trade Karlsson over the summer.
- By 2024-25, should have Eklund, Muk, 2023 1st, Bystedt/Bordeleau, Okhotiuk, Zetterlund, and maybe some other under the radar moves solidly in your core along with almost $40M in cap space with a roster of ~14 players (8 spots to fill on my Armchair GM model) along with being in the last years of the Burns retention. At that point, you can start paying and adding players via trade and UFA that are more impactful rather than 3/4 tweeners.

TLDR - Ride out another season of being atrocious next year with a torn down roster. Accumulate assets and cap space for whatever you can sell and then start to spend cap space again in the 2024-25 timeframe with 2026 to 2030 as your likely best case scenario window to maybe start being a real threat in the Western conference based on your own roster, but also the inevitable teardown of Vegas, Colorado, and Edmonton as their guys get older and then also need new deals (Drai/McDavid).

 

[WTFetus]

With the rumors that have been going around, it's totally possible that Karlsson will be in play this summer. If that happens, then maybe we start to look into Hertl or Couture getting moved too. Kinda feels like a potential set of dominoes.

One can hope that maybe Karlsson will push more towards being traded this week after seeing how bad this roster is without Meier.
That's a trade the team will definitely lose value-wise, but a necessary loss for the greater good.

 

[STL Shark]

One can hope that maybe Karlsson will push more towards being traded this week after seeing how bad this roster is without Meier.
That's a trade the team will definitely lose value-wise, but a necessary loss for the greater good.

I think more that Edmonton should be breaking down the door to get him given they have 3 more kicks at the can with Drai and McDavid together. Draisatl is a UFA after 2024-25 and then McDavid after 2025-26. They're both going to be signing for whatever the max contract is at that time under the CBA meaning that it's going to be either super hard to retain both together or they should have already begun accumulating cheap futures to play with them. Given the latter hasn't started and they still have $61.5M committed against the cap for the year that Drai needs a new deal, they might as well go all in and see if they can get a Cup now.

Western Conference is as weak as ever and EK65 is as strong as ever. If your two superstars think that he's the missing cog, I'd be out there getting a deal done trying to win while the window is still open. Not going to get gifted another generational player and an elite perennial all-star on the same roster again anytime soon. That said, it is hard to uproot 20% of your roster midseason to make money work.