McKenzie: Leafs looking at Bernier

[Bomber0104]

That's not a correction.

Yes it is. It's actually a very important distinction.

Last in what?

Last as in being a passenger on a last place team's second line.

In the 2 years that Mac has been here, the Leafs finished 22nd and 25th, and he was a consistent offensive threat. How is that relevant?

Is the value of a player diminished because of his team's ranking?

What about the Oilers or the Islanders? Should their players hold less value on the trade market as well regardless of their individual accomplishments?

Mac was given an opportunity here and he ran with it. He proved he can put up points with decent linemates and increased ice time.

Your argument has no validity whatsoever.

Yes it does. Actually it has quite a bit of relevancy since every one of the players you point out (Tavares, Eberle, Hall, Nuge) are rookies or near rookies in first line roles whereas Macarthur was a passenger on a last placed team's 2nd line, as a veteran.

By far, the worst excuse in all of HF Boards. And that's saying something...

Like scoring is any easier on a weaker team or any one player is the direct result of where a team finishes.

Give your head a shake.

Scoring is no more or less difficult depending on the forwards you play with. Macarthur has always played with two forwards who are way better than him.

This is why you all want to trade him.

Because he is the most expendable forward we have that, on paper, has generated offence.

But the real story behind Macarthur is that he is nothing more than a 2nd filler on a last placed team, and probably not even that good of a 3rd liner on a good team.

 

[4evaBlue]

I really wouldnt trade frattin. He's one of those rare players that can pot 20 on the third line.

Based on what? His 1 goal in 20 games on the 3rd line from last season?

 

[Bomber0104]

Based on what? His 1 goal in 20 games on the 3rd line from last season?

Strong two-way play as a rookie in professional hockey.

I'd think about trading him for Bernier.

Both players have good potential.

 

[Badger Mayhew*]

Some of the arguments against Bernier in this topic

Just an FYI everyone, Reimer's stinking it up in training camp. Surprise, surprise.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...n-scrivens-should-get-call-for-game-1-feschuk

 

[Bomber0104]

Some of the arguments against Bernier in this topic

Just an FYI everyone, Reimer's stinking it up in training camp. Surprise, surprise.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...n-scrivens-should-get-call-for-game-1-feschuk

I'm quite content with Reimer.

Could be one of our two Saviors of the year.

The first would be Reimer for leading us to last.

And the second would be Nathan MacKinnon as our prize for being in last, thanks to Savior number One, Reimer.

 

[masyo88*]

Mac + Frattin + Franson

For Brenier + Clifford + 3rd

sign me up for this trade anyday of the week

 

[Bomber0104]

Mac + Frattin + Franson

For Brenier + Clifford + 3rd

sign me up for this trade anyday of the week

LA would not do this lol

 

[masyo88*]

LA would not do this lol

The third is posturing on my part lol, but not a major requirement. Mac, Frattin and Frason for Clifford and Bernier is respectable.

 

[Bomber0104]

The third is posturing on my part lol, but not a major requirement. Mac, Frattin and Frason for Clifford and Bernier is respectable.

While not as bad as the "Macarthur is being generous" proposals we've heard...

I still think it is not enough.

Bernier needs Frattin+

Adding Clifford doesn't help much...considering he is younger than Frattin and has the ability to be as effective at the NHL as him alone.

 

[Blayzer]

If other parts are included in the deal, Kyle Clifford would be ideal.

Bernier, Clifford for Macarthur, Liles, 3rd '13, 4th '13

The Kings have King and Nolan who can negate the loss of Clifford. The Kings basically lose zilch from their cup winning team, and add a top 6, 20+ goal scorer along with a veteran PP puck moving d-man to play behind Doughty and round out a group consisting of Voynov, Mitchell, Scuderi and Martinez.

We get a 3rd line banger from Ontario who can also play, and Bernier who could or could not be the problem to our goaltending problem. I think the best Canadian goalies are French and hope Bernier could be our next Potvin!

 

[masyo88*]

While not as bad as the "Macarthur is being generous" proposals we've heard...

I still think it is not enough.

Bernier needs Frattin+

Adding Clifford doesn't help much...considering he is younger than Frattin and has the ability to be as effective at the NHL as him alone.

Macarthur is a decent NHL player, hes a really good stop gap in my opinion, but he is not the player the leafs fans think he is. How about Frattin + Mcarthur + Frason + Blacker sound? Blacker in my mind is expandable because of Riley.

 

[JMcLeaf]

Unless players on their team get injured, the Kings have no need for Macarthur

 

[Bomber0104]

Macarthur is a decent NHL player, hes a really good stop gap in my opinion, but he is not the player the leafs fans think he is. How about Frattin + Mcarthur + Frason + Blacker sound? Blacker in my mind is expandable because of Riley.

Frattin + Macarthur + Blacker + Franson

for two players?

Kings don't like that for salary purposes alone...then again the quantity/quality thing might not be there either.

How would you like it if the Kings counter offered something like:

Gardiner for Bernier plus two garbage pieces

You wouldnt like that know would you?

Try to put yourself in their shoes and what they might want.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

I think this is probably the smart move. Play both him and Reimer and hope to strike gold with one of them. Similar to TB's strategy this year

 

[Blayzer]

Lotkionov - Kopitar - Brown
Gagne - Richards - Carter
Williams - Stoll - Macarthur
King - Lewis - Penner
Nolan

Doughty - Mitchell
Voynov - Greene
Liles - Scuderi
Marinez

That is a deep, deep team that could roll 4 lines no problem with a well rounded defense.

 

[Tak7]

Don't think this will happen, purely because I don't think the Leafs will want to give up anything major in any deal to acquire a goaltender.

On Bernier though - while he is not exactly a massive improvement over what we have now, he does have the potential to be a franchise cornerstone goaltender. What stands out for me, is his potential and his upside. There are a lot of guys that believe he can be an elite goaltender in this league.

Regardless of what his actual upside his, I don't think anyone can argue that he's got better potential than both Reimer and Scrivens - both of whom will never become elite goaltenders in this league.

 

[The Blue Devil]

LOL I don't think so.

That's probably enough to get LA's attention for dealing Bernier...not counting the top prospect you think should be included.

29 other teams would top that.

L.A is trading for Bernier?

 

[rdawg1234]

Lotkionov - Kopitar - Brown
Gagne - Richards - Carter
Williams - Stoll - Macarthur
King - Lewis - Penner
Nolan

Doughty - Mitchell
Voynov - Greene
Liles - Scuderi
Marinez

That is a deep, deep team that could roll 4 lines no problem with a well rounded defense.

penner on the 4th line? this team is an all-star team.

As of now I'd say LA-Ranger finals just looking on paper, both stacked teams all around. SO much secondary offensive threats from LA, Carter/Richards on their second line is ridiculous.

If we're trading with them though I hope we get more than Bernier back.

 

[The Blue Devil]

*CORRECTION*

A 20 goal/50 point winger on a last placed team

So I guess Eberle is a useless player, and RNH, Hall etc?

 

[damacles1156]

Lotkionov - Kopitar - Brown
Gagne - Richards - Carter
Williams - Stoll - Macarthur
King - Lewis - Penner
Nolan

Doughty - Mitchell
Voynov - Greene
Liles - Scuderi
Marinez

That is a deep, deep team that could roll 4 lines no problem with a well rounded defense.

Wow.

Williams on the third line, which he has never played for the Kings.

Replaced by a guy that can't even stay on the pro roster(and sucks as a winger).

 

[The Blue Devil]

Difference between Reimer and Bernier.

Reimer- terrible glove hand, worst recovery starting goaltender in the league. Terrible positioning.

Bernier- has all the talent in the world and has not been given a chance.

The choice is obvious, the question is how much we give up. If Bozak is the best peice we're giving up, I don't think you hesitate.

I think the only obvious part of your statement is that the only part of Bernier that you've seen is his draft position.

 

[Tak7]

As is the case in almost every trade thread here, Leafs fans are ridiculously overvaluing the assets we are giving up in any hypothetical trade scenario.

Let's face it - we don't have all that much on the roster, that other teams would be willing to give up significant assets to acquire.

A Liles + McCarthur package might seem enticing, until you realize that there a handful of other teams out there that could offer better packages to LA that included a puck moving Dman and a secondary winger.

No one wants our junk. And it is junk. There's no other way to value the spare parts on a team that finished 26th

 

[Bomber0104]

So I guess Eberle is a useless player, and RNH, Hall etc?

Eberle was almost a PPG and RNH was a rookie and Hall was injured and is so much better than Macarthur in every imagineable way.

Anything else?

 

[The Blue Devil]

lol @ all of you saying Bernier isnt worth much.

It's not all about stats. This kid has the talent to be a top 10 goalie in the NHL.

Id give Kadri + 2nd up for him easily.

Kadri has the talent to be a top 10 player in the NHL.

I can do it to, this game is fun.

 

[tp71]

Some of the arguments against Bernier in this topic

Just an FYI everyone, Reimer's stinking it up in training camp. Surprise, surprise.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...n-scrivens-should-get-call-for-game-1-feschuk

One of his big points in the article was Reimer shouldn't start because Orr scored on him.

In that case, I guess Brodeur should have retired after Orr scored on him.

One training camp goal. Stinking it up in training came...an article that is written on one training camp goal. Really? Come on.