McKenzie: Leafs looking at Bernier

[Drugstorecowboi]

If Bernier was as "bad" as some Leaf fans are saying....and this goes for the skeptical Leaf fans as well..then I ask:

1. Why are the KINGS reluctant to TRADE BERNIER if QUICK goes down?

2. If BERNIER was no better than REIMER or SCRIVENS don't you think the KINGS--who have a good chance to repeat--would go out and find somewhat of a proven netminder until Quick's return?

In closing - we have absolutely nothing in Reimer & Scrivens. We all know it. I personally targeted Lindbeck and/or Bernier at the end of last season... they are both ideal candidates for taking over our starting goaltending role (eventually).

Bernier just needs some games to come into his own. Reimer was a flash in the pan and Scrivens..well..I will never forget the Boston game. Reimer/Scrivens are like a poor man's Wregget/Bester tandem from the mid to late 80s... man they're no better than Reese/Ing.

I know we overrate what we have, and we are doing so with Reimer/Scrivens, but from what I've seen of Bernier, and what professional hockey executives think/know of Bernier...he just needs some games to shine.

 

[SprDaVE]

Here's a post from the Admin at the SN Forums, who is very well connected within the Kings org. Take it for what it's worth:

Re: Leafs Turn Interest To Bernier..

Morning all:

Checking in , and noticed your Thread. Thought I might be able to help:

First, three days ago, at Sunday's "meet and greet" Picture and Autograph Session for Season Ticket Holders, someone (a reporter I believe) DIRECTLY asked GM Lombardi about the possibility of a Bernier trade: Here was his response; and it was reported as such in numerous LA Publications, with no denials:

“I don’t think that’s feasible at all right now. He’s an important part of this team. Let’s face it, our guys in the minors aren’t ready for that role. And that’s an important role. Like Darryl [Sutter] says, with all these games back-to-back and stuff – hey, a number two starter in baseball is pretty important and that’s the way a goaltender is. (So), I don’t see how that’s possible. He’s too important to us.”

Again, because of the compacted schedule, maybe more important this year than a normal season.

“Even more so. I thing the guy was really underestimated, maybe because of the volume he’s played. But, if you look at the games he’s won for us the last two years, to get us in the playoffs – he’s shown he can go in under not the best of circumstances and get it done in some tough buildings.”

So, what do you say to a guy who’s let it be known that he wants out, but you clearly need right now?

“Be a pro. There’s a system in place. It’s called the Collective Bargaining Agreement. At some point players – (after a pause) that’s the way it is. Obviously, if the right thing is there for the team, you look at it. But, you can’t be responding to this without the number one focus being on the team and he’s too important to the team. Unless something hits us that’s really going to help this team, it’s not feasible. Now, there’s a time limit on that, it’s called the CBA – where you don’t have that choice as a General Manager anymore and you do what’s best. But, that’s the system.”

Regardless of Quick being cleared to play, he’s still coming off back surgery. Bernier is an insurance policy.

End of story.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, as of last night, given that Mitchell had a set-back, and will be out a while, there was SUPPOSEDLY some discussion about trading Bernier earlier, PROVIDED they could get BOTH a first-rounder or "blue-chip prospect" PLUS a serviceable D-Man. Apparently the Devils, who have been calling about Bernier, have a glut to D-Men, and a willingness to trade Draft Choices, so there MAY be a trade there.

The "issue" for the Leafs, even if they chose to get involved (and they HAVE called multiple times) is that, as I Posted last Summer, Kings Execs don't value your Players very highly, with the exception of Gardiner and Kessel, so would be difficult to make a deal work.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this was of some interest; have a good day everyone.

 

[Leafsman]

Everybody is saying he isn't an upgrade over Reimer, but he's certainly an upgrade over Scrivens. You need two goalies on your roster and Reimer isn't exactly a 70 game goalie. 1a/1b between Reimer and Bernier is better than Reimer/Scrivens IMO.

I 100% agree!! With three possible goalies, one should at least pan out!

 

[indigobuffalo]

Looking at the LA depth chart, I wonder what they are going to do to fix their cap situation.

They currently have $6.8M, $5.75M and $5.27M allocated to their 1C, 2C and 3C, and that is until 2016 (when presumably they re-up Kopitar). The 2C and 3C are under contract until 2020 and 2022 respectively...

Just looking at their payroll situation for next year:

Salary cap: $64.3M, current 2013-14 cap hit: $54.125M players signed: 12.

The LA Kings need to sign 11 roster spots next season with only $10.175M in cap space.

They absolutely have to dump salary, so conceivably a Bernier trade is the answer, so long as they package salary with it.

 

[PasDaSquini]

Looking at the LA depth chart, I wonder what they are going to do to fix their cap situation.

They currently have $6.8M, $5.75M and $5.27M allocated to their 1C, 2C and 3C, and that is until 2016 (when presumably they re-up Kopitar). The 2C and 3C are under contract until 2020 and 2022 respectively...

Just looking at their payroll situation for next year:

Salary cap: $64.3M, current 2013-14 cap hit: $54.125M players signed: 12.

The LA Kings need to sign 11 roster spots next season with only $10.175M in cap space.

They absolutely have to dump salary, so conceivably a Bernier trade is the answer, so long as they package salary with it.

So glad that these types of contracts are over with. Just looking at 2020 and 2022 is just ughh. LA is in the same situation as Chicago was a few years back when they won the cup. I think it will be easier for LA though to manage the Cap especially with the 2 amnesty buyouts but deals will have to be made and a lot of talent will need to be given up to do so. I am sure the Cup will ease the lost of talent.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

They want 1st + top prospect + a serviceable D-man?

What the hell has he done to deserve that kind of return? Wow.

I'd do something around Frattin + 2nd + 3rd + Holzer for Bernier + Clifford

I know they aren't going to trade Clifford though. So Frattin + 2nd is more than enough for Bernier.

In any case, I doubt they trade him in a condensed season.

 

[SprDaVE]

They want 1st + top prospect + a serviceable D-man?

What the hell has he done to deserve that kind of return? Wow.

I'd do something around Frattin + 2nd + 3rd + Holzer for Bernier + Clifford

I know they aren't going to trade Clifford though. So Frattin + 2nd is more than enough for Bernier.

In any case, I doubt they trade him in a condensed season.

Not quite. He said a top prospect OR a 1st round pick along with a serviceable defenseman.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

Not quite. He said a top prospect OR a 1st round pick along with a serviceable defenseman.

My bad lol

 

[zeke]

If Bernier was as "bad" as some Leaf fans are saying....and this goes for the skeptical Leaf fans as well..then I ask:

1. Why are the KINGS reluctant to TRADE BERNIER if QUICK goes down?

2. If BERNIER was no better than REIMER or SCRIVENS don't you think the KINGS--who have a good chance to repeat--would go out and find somewhat of a proven netminder until Quick's return?

The Kings have one of the best goalies in hockey, backed up by a young goalie with some potential.

Why on earth would they go out and spend money or assets on getting a better backup?

In closing - we have absolutely nothing in Reimer & Scrivens. We all know it. I personally targeted Lindbeck and/or Bernier at the end of last season... they are both ideal candidates for taking over our starting goaltending role (eventually).

Bernier just needs some games to come into his own. Reimer was a flash in the pan and Scrivens..well..I will never forget the Boston game. Reimer/Scrivens are like a poor man's Wregget/Bester tandem from the mid to late 80s... man they're no better than Reese/Ing.

Reimer and Scrivens both have as good or better track records than Bernier.

I know we overrate what we have, and we are doing so with Reimer/Scrivens, but from what I've seen of Bernier, and what professional hockey executives think/know of Bernier...he just needs some games to shine.

Sounds exactly like what professional hockey executives said about Toskala.

 

[Drugstorecowboi]

The Kings have one of the best goalies in hockey, backed up by a young goalie with some potential.

Why on earth would they go out and spend money or assets on getting a better backup?



Reimer and Scrivens both have as good or better track records than Bernier.



Sounds exactly like what professional hockey executives said about Toskala.

If Quick went down in a 48 game season due to back injuries, and had to miss half of it...why would they be trusting half the season to Bernier - if he is a young goalie with a worse track record than Reimer/Scrivens on paper.

Just because our goaltenders played more games than Benier do not mean they are a better goalie than Bernier.

And lastly, hockey executives were high on Toskala because he was great in SJ....but the difference is: SJ was more than willing to part with Toskala..while the Kings are not so willing to part with the "unproven" Bernier. Big difference.


As bad and as horrible as Toskala was in blue and white.... so was the entire hockey team iced in front of him.... Reimer/Scrivens play with a much better group in front of them than Toskala did...and I know that we STILL have absolutely nothing to write home about in goal.

 

[RealisticLeaf55]

Just had this arguement with L.A on the trade boards. I would rather go Reimer/Scrivens. If we bomb this season we win because of a good chance at MacKinnon/Jones. If we win then, hey! We are in the playoffs. No prospects/picks should be traded this season. Lets not make the same mistakes JFJ made.

 

[namttebih]

Sounds like people are already coming up with excuses as to why Bernier's not good enough. I'm not going to trade solid assets for a what-if. We've been there before and it set this organization back years.

How is it making up excuses? It's pretty common actually. There are exceptions obviously like Shneider but check the difference between a busy season and a quieter season for Rask.


2009–10 Boston Bruins 45 22 12 5 1.97 .931



2010–11 Boston Bruins 29 11 14 2 2.67 .918

 

[legendinblue]

Just had this arguement with L.A on the trade boards. I would rather go Reimer/Scrivens. If we bomb this season we win because of a good chance at MacKinnon/Jones. If we win then, hey! We are in the playoffs. No prospects/picks should be traded this season. Lets not make the same mistakes JFJ made.

I'm on board with this. Unless we can get Bernier dirty cheap.

 

[I Believe]

I wouldn't mind Bernier on this team, but not yet. I think we should see what we have before pursuing another goalie.
We honestly don't know what we have in Reimer or even Scrivens.

I say just play out the year with what we have, see where we're at and make adjustments at the trade deadline/next year. Worst case scenario we get a decent pick and go for a goalie next year.

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

Hopefully makes all these therads go away.

 

[Rockinz]

Looking at the LA depth chart, I wonder what they are going to do to fix their cap situation.

They currently have $6.8M, $5.75M and $5.27M allocated to their 1C, 2C and 3C, and that is until 2016 (when presumably they re-up Kopitar). The 2C and 3C are under contract until 2020 and 2022 respectively...

Just looking at their payroll situation for next year:

Salary cap: $64.3M, current 2013-14 cap hit: $54.125M players signed: 12.

The LA Kings need to sign 11 roster spots next season with only $10.175M in cap space.

They absolutely have to dump salary, so conceivably a Bernier trade is the answer, so long as they package salary with it.

You make a solid point. LA is in cap hell next year!

Maybe a deal like the Lupul + Gardiner for Beauch

Williams + Bernier for Franson

 

[Syn3rgetic]

No picks beyond a 4th rounder should be spent on anyone that isn't a direct upgrade. (ex. 1C's) It's a deep draft year and we can still use the picks on draft day to move further up. We should in fact unload deadweight for more 2-3rd rounders. (Lombardi, Komi, Conolly, I'm looking at you guys.)

 

[Minor Boarding]

Looking at the LA depth chart, I wonder what they are going to do to fix their cap situation.

They currently have $6.8M, $5.75M and $5.27M allocated to their 1C, 2C and 3C, and that is until 2016 (when presumably they re-up Kopitar). The 2C and 3C are under contract until 2020 and 2022 respectively...

Just looking at their payroll situation for next year:

Salary cap: $64.3M, current 2013-14 cap hit: $54.125M players signed: 12.

The LA Kings need to sign 11 roster spots next season with only $10.175M in cap space.

They absolutely have to dump salary, so conceivably a Bernier trade is the answer, so long as they package salary with it.

May I inform you?
For the next season the Kings have 12 players signed with 15.5mio$ cap space.
5 out of top 6 players signed, 2 of the better 3rd liners (Stoll, King) signed, 4h line center signed, 3 top 4 defensman signed, starting goaltender signed).

Either Gagne or Penner wont be resigned as Toffoli is knocking on the NHL door with quite impressive showing in the training camp and his AHL year.
The only other UFA that needs to be signed is Scuderi and he won't get a big raise from his 3.4mio$ he made this year.
Outside of Voynov, the rest of the lineup plays for the next NHL contract and baring a surprising good season - those players won't get raises that would put the team to the cap limit.

So no, Carter (who plays wing to Richards) isn't going anywhere soon...

As for Bernier, yes the lack of games might be concern but his upside is also quite high...
He's no Roy/Hasek that would make your goaltending definitely better - heck before last year there was a back and forth discussion/arguing about trading Quick in favor of Bernier on the LA hfboards...
Also before you put stats into discussion, it's important to know that Bernier mostly got 3rd game in four nights and long travel games and games where he came in in relief for Quick the past year and performed rather well earning two 2nd star of the game votes and 1 SO.
In fact outside of the game vs DET on Dec, 17th where both Quick and Bernier couldn't do anything in front of a sleeping team (Quick had a .571 S%, Bernier had a .750 S%) the games he lost were close games, where the Kings didn't manage to give him goal scoring support.
In 8 of his appearances the team scored 1 or 0 goals - can't win too many games with goal support like that (not even Roy, Brodeour, Hasek,...) would.

If you ask me, I have hard time believing Bernier's gonna get traded by the Kings. And not sure the Leafs aren't gonna try to get some veteran goaltender for this season and decide what to do based on the season progress.

my 2 cents.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

If Quick went down in a 48 game season due to back injuries, and had to miss half of it...why would they be trusting half the season to Bernier - if he is a young goalie with a worse track record than Reimer/Scrivens on paper.

Just because our goaltenders played more games than Benier do not mean they are a better goalie than Bernier.

And lastly, hockey executives were high on Toskala because he was great in SJ....but the difference is: SJ was more than willing to part with Toskala..while the Kings are not so willing to part with the "unproven" Bernier. Big difference.


As bad and as horrible as Toskala was in blue and white.... so was the entire hockey team iced in front of him.... Reimer/Scrivens play with a much better group in front of them than Toskala did...and I know that we STILL have absolutely nothing to write home about in goal.

I don't know why people make the silly assumption that a similar situation is necessarily going to turn out the same way. Toskala was stuck behind a bona fide #1 goalie and so is Bernier, but that's about where the comparison ends.

In another thread I noticed someone implying that they thought McClement might not work out because there were a couple of guys in the past who were brought here to help on the PK (i.e. Sjostrom) and didn't pan out.

It wasn't their being-brought-here-to-help-on-the-PK-ness that made them not work out, like.

 

[Barney Gumble]

And lastly, hockey executives were high on Toskala because he was great in SJ....but the difference is: SJ was more than willing to part with Toskala..while the Kings are not so willing to part with the "unproven" Bernier. Big difference.

How "great" was Toskala really? Outside of his first three seasons in the NHL (starting a combined total of 40 games), his numbers (save percentage) looked fairly pedestrian to me in San Jose.

 

[The CyNick]

Just had this arguement with L.A on the trade boards. I would rather go Reimer/Scrivens. If we bomb this season we win because of a good chance at MacKinnon/Jones. If we win then, hey! We are in the playoffs. No prospects/picks should be traded this season. Lets not make the same mistakes JFJ made.

Pretty much agree with this.

I wouldn't be against giving up a prospect for a proven #1 goalie, but not for someone unproven like Bernier.

 

[TheSilencer]

Just had this arguement with L.A on the trade boards. I would rather go Reimer/Scrivens. If we bomb this season we win because of a good chance at MacKinnon/Jones. If we win then, hey! We are in the playoffs. No prospects/picks should be traded this season. Lets not make the same mistakes JFJ made.

+1.
This statement should be framed and posted in every thread.

 

[-DeMo-]

Looking at the LA depth chart, I wonder what they are going to do to fix their cap situation.

They currently have $6.8M, $5.75M and $5.27M allocated to their 1C, 2C and 3C, and that is until 2016 (when presumably they re-up Kopitar). The 2C and 3C are under contract until 2020 and 2022 respectively...

Just looking at their payroll situation for next year:

Salary cap: $64.3M, current 2013-14 cap hit: $54.125M players signed: 12.

The LA Kings need to sign 11 roster spots next season with only $10.175M in cap space.

They absolutely have to dump salary, so conceivably a Bernier trade is the answer, so long as they package salary with it.

54.125mill is there salary payroll and not there cap payroll which is at 48.7 million so they have 15.5 million to sign these guys.

but you also need to keep in mind 5 of there top 6 players #1 goalie, and there top pairing Dmen are already signed.

so they basically need to sign Bottom 6 players, backup goalie and re-sign Voynov/Scuderi/Martinek 2 of which will be fairly cheap, and there's probably still room to add that final top 6 player.

the Kings are not really in any sort of cap issues.

 

[goonx]

I always liked the idea of Bernier. Enigmatic guy right now that could be a potential #1 goalie in a few years (when we need him to get to the playoofs). I would trade for him for the right price..

for a TOP prospect? probably not but maybe MacArthur or a non-core roster who's set for UFA this year and has a performance year for the leafs.

2nd or 3rd rounder sounds about right. A Bishop - Ottawa trade.

Scrivens? I've watched him play in the marlies for a 10 games or so.. he's not very good IMO. Consistency is the main issue. Played very well for the playoffs, started out cold this year... I'm not sold that he's a NHL back-up. AHL starter or journeyman goalie.

Riemer/Bernier >>>> Riemer/Scrivens. Heck, Gust is a better goalie than Scrivens. When Gust played in the AHL, he dominated.

2010-11 Toronto Marlies AHL GP:5 GAA:1.14 PCT:0.955

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

I dont know if it is the Tylenol Cold or Cough Syrup but the idea of Jonathan Bernier and James Reimer in net for us would be awesome . Let them battle it out why not we are the Toronto Maple Leafs when is he last time we have 2 potential number 1 goalies battle it out for a season.? and Monster vs Reimer dosnt count