McKenzie: Leafs looking at Bernier

[daveleaf]

I think some guys are getting all bent out of shape about this. LA can say whatever they want but in the end they will have to move him. The way agents are today, one agent looks after many players and when a player is buried and not given a chance to compete they remember these situations later on down the road. Just business.

People have to remember this is a 48 game season, come out of the shoot with five bad games and that may be enough to write this season off. I don't believe Nonis will trade our first round pic with this much at stake and I don't believe MLSE has told him he has to make the playoffs. I believe they said do what is best for the team now and for the long term to make them competitive for a long time.

I don't believe Luongo fits the bill cap wise and compensation wise. If the asking price for Bernier stays high he won't be moved. I mean, what was Kovy traded for? You can throw out the trade from Col to Wsh because that still seems way to high for that player.

We go with Reimer and Scrivens unless Bernier becomes available for cheap with a cap dump. Having Reimer and Bernier battle for number one is ideal for the makeup of this team. Young team with players battling for time at every position, this is a good thing. I think we are fine.

 

[4evaBlue]

Here's a post from the Admin at the SN Forums, who is very well connected within the Kings org. Take it for what it's worth:

there was SUPPOSEDLY some discussion about trading Bernier earlier, PROVIDED they could get BOTH a first-rounder or "blue-chip prospect" PLUS a serviceable D-Man.

Yeah, that ain't happening. Definitely not from the Leafs, not even if that "servicable D-man" is Komisarek.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Goalies are only expected to push for starting positions at Berniers current age...and... They have the reigning Conn Smyth winner / Vezina candidate as their #1.

Was he that goalie the previous 5 years?

Forwards, specifically highly drafted skilled forwards who dont play a power game, are expected to crack an NHL lineup after 2-3 years. Kadri only would have had to push himself past the great players that are MacArthur, Bozak, etc.

Probably only by people who have never bothered to actually look at where people selected in his range usually end up in terms of years until full time status.

Granted, I do think Bernier has a lot to prove at the NHL level, his stats havent been the best considering the team he's on. But you can count the goalies on one hand that would surpass Quick on the depth chart. Its pretty much just Lundqvist, maybe Rinne.

Again, we're talking 6 1/2 years.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Bernier is going to be everything we hoped Reimer would be....

So we're suppose to move on from Reimer already?

And just to point out, Bernier has been around longer than Reimer. Why hasn't he proven more?

 

[Al14]

Bernier for scrivens and a 7th?

Scrivens may end up being the better goalie in the long run. I wouldn't give him up easily at the moment.

 

[dubey]

i'd give up a lot for bernier. that guy is a great goalie with big things ahead.

wouldn't even blink at trading kadri and frattin for him. that would be a steal for the leafs.

Do you blink often?

 

[DaveT83*]

I like Bernier.
I like Scrivens


I don't like Reimer

 

[Dangles McGavin]

I like Bernier.
I like Scrivens


I don't like Reimer

I tend to agree.

Slow, un-athletic goalies who rely on angles and probability like Reimer tend to not do so well.

His glove hand is so damn bad...

One thing I'll give Reims is that he's really good on breakaways. But that's pretty much been it.

 

[Dreakmur]

And just to point out, Bernier has been around longer than Reimer. Why hasn't he proven more?

Like Nazem Kadri, you can't prove anything if you're never given a fair chance to do so. Bernier has been stuck behind Jonathan Quick.

 

[613Leafer]

Was he that goalie the previous 5 years?



Probably only by people who have never bothered to actually look at where people selected in his range usually end up in terms of years until full time status.



Again, we're talking 6 1/2 years.

1- Quick has been LAs #1 goalie for 4 years. Specifically he's played at a high level for ~2 years. So Bernier would have been 21 the year before those 2.... Seeing as your criticizing me for saying Kadri was expected to be in the NHL by age 21 by saying that it usually takes longer... You realize goalies take YEARS longer than forwards to develop. You know this right? This isnt some hidden secret.

2- as for Kadri himself. Lets look at the previous 7th overall picks.
Skinner was in the NHL the year after being drafted.
Colin Wilson was full time NHL 3 years after being drafted
Voracek spent one more year in Junior, then was full time NHL
Okoposo was full time 3 years after being drafted
Skille took like 6 years... But he's considered a bust
Olesz took 2 years
Etc

If Kadri was full time this year, it would be 4 years after being drafted.

So ok! I checked! I "bothered to look"... Oh wait, no, I already knew whatt I was talking about. Maybe you should "bother to look" before you criticize other peoples factually based comments Because OMG, just like I said, with the except of Skille, all the others took between 1-3 years!

And since you criticized Bernier for not being a #1 NHL goalie at age 21, maybe you should go "bother to check" when the average goalie becomes a starter

At least it looks like Kadri has rounded out his defensive game. But at the end of the day, both these guys are former high picks with question marks.

 

[Frankie]

Do you blink often?

all the time. do you have a point, or an opinion to offer?

hilarious are the opinions on bernier, all based strictly on the fact he isn't a leaf.

 

[Frankie]

Was he that goalie the previous 5 years?

Probably only by people who have never bothered to actually look at where people selected in his range usually end up in terms of years until full time status.

Again, we're talking 6 1/2 years.

are you saying bernier has been slow to develop, or hasn't developed as he should have?

you're always pointing to actual development paths and what exactly we should expect from prospects. so lets look at bernier. he was drafted 6 ago.

two of those years, when he was 18 and 19, he was sent back to his junior team. he won a championship and went to the memorial cup one of those seasons.

as soon as he was eligible, he went to the ahl, where he spent the next two seasons at 20 and 21. outstanding numbers in the ahl, including winning the ahl's most outstanding goalie award, and going on a long 16-game playoff run.

the next two seasons, at 22 and 23, he spent in the nhl, as the understudy to one of the best goalies in the league. last year the back-up to one of the very elite goalies in the league, and the stanley cup winning goalie.

so in the 6 seasons since being drafted, it seems bernier has been very successful and has followed an almost perfect development path for an up and coming goalie. i'm not sure how anyone could argue against that?

if you had to write a perfect scenario for the development path of an nhl goalie, i'm thinking it wouldn't get much better than bernier's path.

he's been highly ranked and highly thought of for years, and he's been highly successful and excellent at every level so far. he has 2 championship rings, including the stanley cup last season, which i'm sure was an invaluable learning experience.

this guy doesn't look like he's ready to take the next step and become a great nhl starting goalie? i don't understand why anyone wouldn't be all over this idea, and be willing to trade a significant asset or two for bernier.

 

[Leafidelity]

hilarious are the opinions on bernier, all based strictly on the fact he isn't a leaf.

Or maybe because his numbers are very similar to Reimer.

I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that if he was a Leaf you'd think he was a bust.

 

[LV*]

Would Mac + 2nd/3rd be a good deal for Bernier? The pick being conditional on if MacArthur re-signs.

 

[pspot]

pretty sure i heard during the prospects game last night that every team that misses the playoffs this year gets a shot at 1st overall

is that true?

if so Nonis cannot trade this years 1st

the top of this draft looks amazing

 

[TmlHockeyFan]

I wouldn't mind trading for Bernier as long as we don't trade any prospects (Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri) or high picks.

 

[bobbyflex]

does anyone know if Frattin would have to clear waivers to be sent down?

 

[BlueBaron]

Not sure perfect is the right word, Fluery, Luongo and Price and others all had "more perfect career arcs" .

Goalies are a different animal and are tough to project, some take a long time to develop others are able to adapt more quickly. Was Thomas better at this age than Riemer or Scrivens ?

I really am not too bothered by the goalie situation whatever happens. I am warming up to the play the kids idea for one last year before we make our move forward but if we got Luongo it wouldn't be the end of the world either, depending on the price.

I like Bernier but unless he is cheap I just don't see any real point to getting him right now. Maybe our scouts love him though ? I don't know.

 

[Faustus]

pretty sure i heard during the prospects game last night that every team that misses the playoffs this year gets a shot at 1st overall

is that true?

if so Nonis cannot trade this years 1st

the top of this draft looks amazing

Yes, it's true, but teams that just miss the playoffs only have like a 0.5% chance of getting the 1st overall.

However, I'm assuming this means there are no limits on moving up in the draft anymore, which means the 1st is way too valuable this year. Not to mention it's a short season where anything can happen.

 

[namttebih]

does anyone know if Frattin would have to clear waivers to be sent down?

I don't think so. He will be an RFA in a couple of years

 

[Frankie]

Or maybe because his numbers are very similar to Reimer.

I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that if he was a Leaf you'd think he was a bust.

and if he was a leaf, you'd think he was fantastic and would be our goalie for the next 10 years. so lets all admit the opinions are based on the colour of his jersey.

getting past that, his numbers and accomplishments in his career so far are much better than reimer's. bernier has been far more successful than reimer so far.

if bob mckenzie is right and the leafs are indeed looking at bernier, i don't understand why leaf fans wouldn't be very happy and excited about that notion.

 

[SprDaVE]

and if he was a leaf, you'd think he was fantastic and would be our goalie for the next 10 years. so lets all admit the opinions are based on the colour of his jersey.

getting past that, his numbers and accomplishments in his career so far are much better than reimer's. bernier has been far more successful than reimer so far.

if bob mckenzie is right and the leafs are indeed looking at bernier, i don't understand why leaf fans wouldn't be very happy and excited about that notion.

His career numbers are not "much better" than Reimer. He isn't much younger nor has he showed that can be more than what he's shown now. There's nothing more that can be said about that. The only thing Bernier clearly has over Reimer is draft pedigree. In fact, you would think Bernier should have a lot better numbers playing for a team clearly better than the Leafs... but he doesn't.

Right now it's if you believe Bernier is capable of more and is just stuck behind Quick. This is where the scouting aspect of this team has to be on top of it's game.

I think most Leaf fans would welcome Bernier, but at the price of a top prospect and a roster player? I don't think Leaf fans are being unreasonable when they cringe at the rumoured asking price. On top of the asking price being quite high, Leaf fans have experienced this type of move that back fired completely (Toskala).

The Kings have every right to ask something good for a goaltender who was once believed to be a starter without a doubt. I think we have the right to be skeptical. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

 

[Frankie]

His career numbers are not "much better" than Reimer. He isn't much younger nor has he showed that can be more than what he's shown now. There's nothing more that can be said about that. The only thing Bernier clearly has over Reimer is draft pedigree. In fact, you would think Bernier should have a lot better numbers playing for a team clearly better than the Leafs... but he doesn't.

there's plenty more that can be said, you're just ignoring bernier's playoff success in his career so far. in terms of playoff appearances and wins between he and reimer, they aren't even in the same ball park.

bernier has been excellent at every level so far. he has individual awards and championship rings. reimer has none.

bernier has the experience of just having won a stanley cup. he didn't play the games, but he was there for each and every practice and was a part of it. he saw what it takes to win in the nhl. i think that has to count for something. i think that counts for a lot actually, especially given his terrific play in junior and the ahl.

so as i see it, bernier has draft pedigree, and a lot of success under his belt that reimer doesn't have.

 

[SprDaVE]

there's plenty more that can be said, you're just ignoring bernier's playoff success in his career so far. in terms of playoff appearances and wins between he and reimer, they aren't even in the same ball park.

bernier has been excellent at every level so far. he has individual awards and championship rings. reimer has none.

bernier has the experience of just having won a stanley cup. he didn't play the games, but he was there for each and every practice and was a part of it. he saw what it takes to win in the nhl. i think that has to count for something. i think that counts for a lot actually, especially given his terrific play in junior and the ahl.

so as i see it, bernier has draft pedigree, and a lot of success under his belt that reimer doesn't have.

It doesn't count much. There's plenty of players with cup rings, that doesn't make them more valuable than the ones without, especially when he didn't play a single game. I guess it's good for his experience but as for his development? I can't see the point.

Reimer has also been excellent at every level. He didn't have the chance to play for the Marlies in the playoffs, but that doesn't make him any worst because of that. He did win the MVP at the ECHL level in his pro rookie campaign, but I guess that doesn't count.

Either way, I'm not discrediting Bernier's accomplishments and what his upside could be. I don't think you understand what the problem most have with acquiring Bernier. It's not what he's accomplished, it's what it'll take to trade for him.

No matter how well he's played through his career, it still doesn't make him to be a guaranteed starter because he hasn't shown the ability to do so. Neither has Reimer for that matter. The price for Bernier is not worth the risk for where we are right now. If the price is right/fair on Bernier, I don't think a single person would have a problem with that.

 

[The Blue Devil]

there's plenty more that can be said, you're just ignoring bernier's playoff success in his career so far. in terms of playoff appearances and wins between he and reimer, they aren't even in the same ball park.

bernier has been excellent at every level so far. he has individual awards and championship rings. reimer has none.

bernier has the experience of just having won a stanley cup. he didn't play the games, but he was there for each and every practice and was a part of it. he saw what it takes to win in the nhl. i think that has to count for something. i think that counts for a lot actually, especially given his terrific play in junior and the ahl.

so as i see it, bernier has draft pedigree, and a lot of success under his belt that reimer doesn't have.

Lebda was a part of the Red Wings SC and I don't see him getting any accolades.