Confirmed with Link: McDonagh + Miller to Tampa Bay for Namestnikov + Howden + Hajek + 2018 1st + conditional 2019 1st

[Beacon]

Me too, unless we get Dahlin. That would change everything, but I'm not expecting it to happen.

Even if we get Dahlin somehow, it won't make us good instantly. For one, he may need a year to truly adjust and be good at first, but not great at 18. Two, Edmonton has McDavid and Drai, another ppg player. Where are they? And we don't even have Drai. We literally can win Dahlin and have Chytil turn into an instant ppg player (both highly unlikely), and we'd still be only where the Oilers are right now. You can say we got some other players, but hey, they have some decent players too: RNH, Larsson, even guys like Lucic and Cammalleri add depth. Even if we are better than the Oilers (and that's assuming we get Dahlin and Chytil is an instant beast), are we so much better that we are playoff bound? The blue line is awful and there's no depth up front at all.

This can be changed by throwing money at UFAs, but I really hope that won't happen and the Rangers let the rebuild run its course. Trade Zuccarello! Spoon and Names, too.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I think the deal was fair value, i still feel slightly underwhelmed because i wanted a blue chipper for McDonagh or atleast for Hajek to be Foote (and i know, it's not THAT much between them, but still).

I do think that Namestnikov is a slightly better player then JTM though and he's a C which is more valuable. I'm super excited we have all these picks, will make for a fun summer, really hope we don't use them to trade up, that would suck.

 

[Synergy27]

What about top 20 lists?

They are important to an extent. Every team has prospects that they think will be good players for their NHL team. The impact players in the league usually come from the top of those lists.

I do think there is convergence at the top of those lists that means something. Yes, it would have been nice to get a player in that range back for McD. Those are the players needed to rebuild successfully.

 

[ponytrekker]

Tatar himself fetched a 1 a 2 and a 3. Tatar 16 12 in 62 games. Miller 13 27 in 63 g. Was a throw in.

Where Gorton shops
Fleece | Old Navy

 

[Synergy27]

Even if we get Dahlin somehow, it won't make us good instantly. For one, he may need a year to truly adjust and be good at first, but not great at 18. Two, Edmonton has McDavid and Drai, another ppg player. Where are they? And we don't even have Drai. We literally can win Dahlin and have Chytil turn into an instant ppg player (both highly unlikely), and we'd still be only where the Oilers are right now. You can say we got some other players, but hey, they have some decent players too: RNH, Larsson, even guys like Lucic and Cammalleri add depth. Even if we are better than the Oilers (and that's assuming we get Dahlin and Chytil is an instant beast), are we so much better that we are playoff bound? The blue line is awful and there's no depth up front at all.

I think the desire to make comparisons to Edmonton needs to stop. Edmonton has enough pieces to make them good. They were good last year. Something is going on there that is not player related imo.

 

[vippe]

Tatar himself fetched a 1 a 2 and a 3. Tatar 16 12 in 62 games. Miller 13 27 in 63 g. Was a throw in.

Where Gorton shops
Fleece | Old Navy

Really shouldnt take that Tatar deal as it was the standard. That was a steep price to pay for Tatar, no one else would have.

GMGM aint the best in business when it comes to trades, he proves once again.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Another way of looking at it, we got roughly the same for McDonagh, a non-rental, as we got for a 36 year old rental Brian Leetch: 1, 2 and a pair of good, but unspectacular D+F prospects. Except we also downgraded Miller for Names. Sure you now know that Kondratiev and Immonen busted (and we all know there's no chance of Howden, Hijak or any of our current prospects going bust), but at the time, they were seen as A- prospects. In fact, the first rounder we got was known from the start to likely be higher than Tampa's one. I don't want to hear comments, "at the time we got 1+2 and a pair of minor leaguers" because that's 20-20 vision. The 2 prospects we got in 2004 were viewed at the time about the same as the 2 prospects we got now.

So a 36-year-old Leetch rental brings in what a 28-year-old McDonagh non-rental brings us, except Leetch returned a better first rounder and we downgraded our forwards (Miller/Names). And that 2004 trade was never seen as a big win for the Rangers. FML.

Seems a little crazy to me to compare markets 14 years apart. The more realistic comparison is with Yandle (although he didn't have a Miller packaged with him). That being said, I still think this deal was more of a win than the one for Arizona. At worst, it's equal.

Prospect - Howden = Duclair (Can be argued that Duclair was a better prospect, but I would disagree)
Prospect - Hajek > Nothing (At worst equal to a second rounder - again I would disagree)
Pick - 1st Round Pick > Conditional 1st (Became a 1st because we made ECF)
Pick - Conditional 1st > Second Rounder
Roster Player - Namestnikov > John Moore

So as you can see, every piece is better, or at worst, equal to what we sent to Arizona. Furthermore, this is assuming you equate McDonagh with Yandle, which again, I would disagree with. McDonagh has been injured and even prior to that, was having a down year. In my opinion, Yandle was a more valuable piece at that point in his career, than McDonagh is now. Tampa is somewhat trading for him in the hopes that he will get back to what he was in prior years. Furthermore, McD, after 2014, never got back to the elite level of play he displayed throughout that year.

Acknowledging all of that, it's clear we received a much higher price in terms of value by adding Miller. If we equate McDonagh with Yandle (which most were doing prior the trade), then it can be determiend that by adding Miller (and valuing McDonagh slightly more) this was worth

A guaranteed 1st > A Conditional First
A Conditional 1st > A Guaranteed Second
A very good D Prospect in Hajek > Nothing (Huge additional piece)
Namestnikov > J. Moore.

In my opinion, if you look at it through this lens, we got quite a haul. Of course, not getting Sergachev or Point is a major letdown, but if Tampa's system wasn't one of the best in the league, we would be very pleased with this deal.

 

[Claxton]

If it came down to one of Howden, Raddysh or Foote I'm happy they got the center prospect out of it, especially if the scouting reports are accurate and Howden has the qualities of an Andersson type of player.

 

[ponytrekker]

Seems a little crazy to me to compare markets 14 years apart. The more realistic comparison is with Yandle (although he didn't have a Miller packaged with him). That being said, I still think this deal was more of a win than the one for Arizona. At worst, it's equal.

Prospect - Howden = Duclair (Can be argued that Duclair was a better prospect, but I would disagree)
Prospect - Hajek > Nothing (At worst equal to a second rounder - again I would disagree)
Pick - 1st Round Pick > Conditional 1st (Became a 1st because we made ECF)
Pick - Conditional 1st > Second Rounder
Roster Player - Namestnikov > John Moore

So as you can see, every piece is better, or at worst, equal to what we sent to Arizona. Furthermore, this is assuming you equate McDonagh with Yandle, which again, I would disagree with. McDonagh has been injured and even prior to that, was having a down year. In my opinion, Yandle was a more valuable piece at that point in his career, than McDonagh is now. Tampa is somewhat trading for him in the hopes that he will get back to what he was in prior years. Furthermore, McD, after 2014, never got back to the elite level of play he displayed throughout that year.

Acknowledging all of that, it's clear we received a much higher price in terms of value by adding Miller. If we equate McDonagh with Yandle (which most were doing prior the trade), then it can be determiend that by adding Miller (and valuing McDonagh slightly more) this was worth

A guaranteed 1st > A Conditional First
A Conditional 1st > A Guaranteed Second
A very good D Prospect in Hajek > Nothing (Huge additional piece)
Namestnikov > J. Moore.

In my opinion, if you look at it through this lens, we got quite a haul. Of course, not getting Sergachev or Point is a major letdown, but if Tampa's system wasn't one of the best in the league, we would be very pleased with this deal.

I seem to remember Moore and Duclair playing in the NHL. Is that different from the WHL, like are players better or something?

 

[ponytrekker]

Really shouldnt take that Tatar deal as it was the standard. That was a steep price to pay for Tatar, no one else would have.

GMGM aint the best in business when it comes to trades, he proves once again.

No but that deal was done by someone who I would say "Good job" to rather than "Good try."

 

[Beacon]

Idk I think Howden, Chytil, Andersson is actually great center prospect depth. That’s 3 first rounders who’ve all progressed very well since being drafted.

Possibly, but the problem is that we lack a 1C. Maybe Chytil becomes it, maybe not. If there's a boom/bust center out there with our 2nd or 3rd first round pick, we should take him. Worst case, we wind up with two 1C's. We know how badly it worked out for Pitt to have Crosby/Malkin and before that Mario/Francis. Much more likely, only one of them (or none) become a contender-quality 1C. Then let Lias, Hayes, Howden sort out the middle lines center situation.

 

[Beacon]

The more realistic comparison is with Yandle (although he didn't have a Miller packaged with him). That being said, I still think this deal was more of a win than the one for Arizona. At worst, it's equal.

Prospect - Howden = Duclair (Can be argued that Duclair was a better prospect, but I would disagree)
Prospect - Hajek > Nothing (At worst equal to a second rounder - again I would disagree)
Pick - 1st Round Pick > Conditional 1st (Became a 1st because we made ECF)
Pick - Conditional 1st > Second Rounder
Roster Player - Namestnikov > John Moore

So as you can see, every piece is better, or at worst, equal to what we sent to Arizona.

I would be very happy with this deal the way you describe it if we didn't include Miller, but Miller is a very valuable piece. A cost-controlled Miller, just entering his prime, is worth more than an old Nash rental, and Nash just brought in a first, a prospect and a player similar to Names. So if Names=Spoon, 2nd=Lingren, first=first, and assuming Miller's value is no higher than Nash's (which is absolutely false), then we got Howden and Hajek for McDonagh. The difference between Miller and Nash, however, is easily worth Hajek, maybe significantly more. Adding Miller is what makes this trade a disaster. Even if you didn't like him, he could've brought in futures if we had kept him.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

And so? What about Klein, Girardi, Hrivik, Jensen, Lindberg, Glass, Clendening, etc?

Not sure I understand your point. It was a call out of trades made since the summer?

 

[JayMan82]

I would be very happy with this deal the way you describe it if we didn't include Miller, but Miller is a very valuable piece. A cost-controlled Miller, just entering his prime, is worth more than an old Nash rental, and Nash just brought in a first, a prospect and a player similar to Names. So if Names=Spoon, 2nd=Lingren, first=first, and assuming Miller's value is no higher than Nash's (which is absolutely false), then we got Howden and Hajek for McDonagh. The difference between Miller and Nash, however, is easily worth Hajek, maybe significantly more. Adding Miller is what makes this trade a disaster. Even if you didn't like him, he could've brought in futures if we had kept him.

Miller is not cost controlled at all, he's one year from UFA and about to make 4.5M+ or likely take a shorter term to reach UFA. Not sure why everyone is overlooking the fact that we traded Namestnikov for Miller straight up in this deal.

 

[ponytrekker]

Miller is not cost controlled at all, he's one year from UFA and about to make 4.5M+ or likely take a shorter term to reach UFA. Not sure why everyone is overlooking the fact that we traded Namestnikov for Miller straight up in this deal.

Tatar makes 6 and has similar if not fewer points.

 

[JayMan82]

Tatar makes 6 and has similar if not fewer points.

Namestnikov has 4 more points than Miller this year and are the same draft year. Just as much as we feel that Vladdy was a product of the system playing with Kucherov/Stamkos, don't overlook the fact that JT's game has glaring holes where year over year, they never went away.

You really can't compare Tatar with this deal, apples and oranges since it's fairly easy to see that this was a one for one in the grand scheme.

 

[nyr2k2]

2 weeks out from heading to fly jets in the USAF.. I am a very busy guy these days

Congrats.

Just seems strange that you have the time to type out a bunch of responses, including to me, but not 30 seconds to read the other guy's post.

 

[GAGLine]

I seem to remember Moore and Duclair playing in the NHL. Is that different from the WHL, like are players better or something?

Moore is in NJ, Duclair is in Chicago, and Arizona still sucks. Yeah, they made out like bandits.

 

[Beacon]

The thing that drives me to most insane here is we literally just traded for 5 left handed D prospects.

Most defensemen go bust. 8 years ago, we had 4 elite defensemen prospects, all of them drafted in the first round. Two became total busts, one is garbage and one (McDonagh) became good. I doubt any of our D prospects are viewed on the same level as any of those 4 were viewed in 2010. Most will become garbage NHLers or total busts.

For now, we just need to acquire whatever assets we can, just go BPA in every trade and draft selection. We can sort things out in 3-4 years.

 

[Beacon]

I think his skills are comparable to Stepan at the same age.

Stepan abused the WJC at the same age. He looked like a man among boys. Howden was ok, pretty good, but not nearly on par. Step was also arguably the best 19 year old in NCAA that year. Howden is doing well in the Juniors, but he's not the best guy his age there.

 

[Edge]

Stepan had the better WJC, on a different team, in a different role.

Howden was more than pretty good or okay, even if it wasn’t what Stepan did.

Think Howden’s play outside the tournament is at least on par.

 

[nyr2k2]

Once I saw Miller was included, yes.

I thought it was 50/50 without Sergachyov. These deals sometimes include the organization's top young asset, and sometimes don't. Its not unrealistic to expect that player to be part of the deal. Its usually just a chess game between the two GM's, and Gorton lost that chess game. It doesn't mean the return was awful, but we could've got Sergachyov back.

When you say, "We could have had Sergachev," what is the factual basis for that statement? How do we know that was the case? How do we know that
Yzerman didn't have Sergachev and Poynt as his limit in making this deal, where insistence on their inclusion was absolutely, 100% a deal breaker? We don't know that. We have no idea whether or not we could have found a way to get the guy included in the deal.

I could say "there was literally zero chance we were getting Sergachev" and I have as much to back that up as anyone who claims we could have got him. None of us know. All we know is that we had a GM who made three pretty damn good deals prior to this, took this one all the way to the deadline, and made a deal that didn't include a particular player a lot of people wanted. Was it because he blew the negotiations, or because the guy wasn't available? I have my opinion like we all do, but it's just that, an opinion or a guess.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Come on guys let's put this really into perspective.

Rangers turned Gomez/Pyatt/Busto into Howden, Hajek, 2018 #1 and a conditional #2. Plus a cup final and a couple ECFs.

That's a win in my book.

Don't think I need this but in case someone thinks I'm serious

 

[Beacon]

If they win this year or next year the 2019 2nd becomes a 1st

In 2019 or 2020?

 

[RGY]

In 2019 or 2020?

Pretty sure its 2019 Beacon.

Tough to wake up today knowing Ryan McDonagh is no longer a Ranger, but it had to happen. This would have been hard to endure no matter what the return was. I think if the draft pick becomes a 1st round pick then the Miller for Namestnikov becomes slightly easier to swallow. Had we come away with Point instead of Howden or Foote instead of Hajek i think everyone would feel a little more settled today.

Pray for these kids to develop into NHLers