McDavid heating up, what are odds on 150 points this season?

[Video Nasty]

You never get the full picture when just watching highlights unfortunately but one thing is that Gretzky played on teams that were scoring 400 goals a season when he was getting 200 points a season. Even Lemieux played on some powerhouse offensive teams scoring 340-370 goals. We will never get to see McDavid play on a team that will score 340-370 goals to see how many points he would get. This season is the best offensive team McDavid has played on and it's on pace for 322 goals. McDavid is on pace for 157 points. The most points Gretzky ever scored on a team that scored less than 330 goals is 164 points. Lemieux is 168. That was in an era with worse defense and goaltending as well. There is no way Gretzky or Lemieux are scoring what they did in that era in this era. I believe with all things being relatively equal McDavid is in that category with Gretzky and Lemieux and would likely have similar performances under similar circumstances. When Lemieux was on a team that scored 285 goals which would be comparable to this era, he had 122 points. When Gretzky played on teams scoring less then 300 goals he was about a 120-130 point player. Obviously they were older at that point but there are strong similarities there, Of course we will never know for sure. It is all speculation but McDavid is the only player I have ever seen that dominates games like Gretzky and Lemieux did.

I agree with a lot of this, but it needs to be noted that in the 1988-1989 season, Lemieux had 199 points in 76 games on a team that scored 347 goals in 80 games. I understand the core of your point, but that is extreme production that needs to be considered.

He factored in on 57.4% of the teams’ production while missing 4 games. The team scored 11 goals in those 4 games, so in games he participated in, he factored in on 199 out of 336, or 59.2%.

Let’s not forget that he would miss chunks of the season and still manage to factor in on 43-45% of the teams final goal totals: 24 games missed in 1992-1993 and a percentage of 43.6. 12 games missed in 1995-1996 and a percentage of 44.5%. Missing 15 games in 2002-2003 at age 37 and still factoring in on almost 50%.

The same sort of production on a team that scores 322 goals over an 82 game season could translate to 190 points, which is believable to me because:

1. McDavid is flirting with 160 in present day.
2. Lemieux proved that different scoring eras didn’t really change his production all that much.
3. The eye test still says he’s a more dominant force than McDavid.

But Lemieux would have to play the schedule to begin with, so it would likely not happen to begin with.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Yeah he hasn’t unlocked that skill yet obviously

Just a few more ep's

 

[paracord]

If we are simply talking about pure "talent" (as opposed to "greatness, which includes several factors), he is the most talented player to ever put skates on.

You've never seen Mario Lemieux play?

 

[paracord]

Most skilled for sure. Natural born talent only three players have an argument over him - Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr.

If you're talking "skill" then you'd need to define that. Skill as in putting one handed wristers into the top corner or double deflections before scoring goals? Using the backhand like the forehand, etc? Crosby would be right there.

If you're talking blazing speed while stickhandling obviously McDavid might be unmatched.

Hell Pavel Datsyuk, Jaromir Jagr, or Alexei Kovalev had ridiculous skill in terms of typewriter stick handling...probably even more than McDavid.

But seriously, the most naturally gifted human being ever to play hockey in terms of just simply pure ability and making it look easy....that's Mario Lemieux. It's not even that close.

 

[authentic]

If you're talking "skill" then you'd need to define that. Skill as in putting one handed wristers into the top corner or double deflections before scoring goals? Using the backhand like the forehand, etc? Crosby would be right there.

If you're talking blazing speed while stickhandling obviously McDavid might be unmatched.

Hell Pavel Datsyuk, Jaromir Jagr, or Alexei Kovalev had ridiculous skill in terms of typewriter stick handling...probably even more than McDavid.

But seriously, the most naturally gifted human being ever to play hockey in terms of just simply pure ability and making it look easy....that's Mario Lemieux. It's not even that close.

Lemieux is my personal #1, I think he's the best player of all-time at his best.

I just mean if you take every hockey player who ever lived just as they were, not adding any speculation as to what they would look like with todays equipment and training then McDavid is the clear best player. You could say that about any modern best player more often than not but with McDavid he is really putting some separation over anyone else in pure skill with how he's dominating the modern game.

 

[TheAngryHank]

If you're talking "skill" then you'd need to define that. Skill as in putting one handed wristers into the top corner or double deflections before scoring goals? Using the backhand like the forehand, etc? Crosby would be right there.

If you're talking blazing speed while stickhandling obviously McDavid might be unmatched.

Hell Pavel Datsyuk, Jaromir Jagr, or Alexei Kovalev had ridiculous skill in terms of typewriter stick handling...probably even more than McDavid.

But seriously, the most naturally gifted human being ever to play hockey in terms of just simply pure ability and making it look easy....that's Mario Lemieux. It's not even that close.

I could argue Fedorov

 

[Cup or Bust]

I agree with a lot of this, but it needs to be noted that in the 1988-1989 season, Lemieux had 199 points in 76 games on a team that scored 347 goals in 80 games. I understand the core of your point, but that is extreme production that needs to be considered.

He factored in on 57.4% of the teams’ production while missing 4 games. The team scored 11 goals in those 4 games, so in games he participated in, he factored in on 199 out of 336, or 59.2%.

Let’s not forget that he would miss chunks of the season and still manage to factor in on 43-45% of the teams final goal totals: 24 games missed in 1992-1993 and a percentage of 43.6. 12 games missed in 1995-1996 and a percentage of 44.5%. Missing 15 games in 2002-2003 at age 37 and still factoring in on almost 50%.

The same sort of production on a team that scores 322 goals over an 82 game season could translate to 190 points, which is believable to me because:

1. McDavid is flirting with 160 in present day.
2. Lemieux proved that different scoring eras didn’t really change his production all that much.
3. The eye test still says he’s a more dominant force than McDavid.

But Lemieux would have to play the schedule to begin with, so it would likely not happen to begin with.

I am not saying McDavid is better than Lemieux or Gretzky, I just mean we won't ever see him under the same conditions as Gretzky or Lemieux. I do think he fits that group personally though.

 

[Video Nasty]

I am not saying McDavid is better than Lemieux or Gretzky, I just mean we won't ever see him under the same conditions as Gretzky or Lemieux. I do think he fits that group personally though.

We don’t know that for sure though. Scoring could continue to tick upwards. Most of us were depressed and wondering about the future of the 100 point scorer after Benn won the Art Ross less than a decade ago.

As you noted, the Oilers are on pace for 322 goals. Florida scored 340 last season. It’s no longer inconceivable that a team could flirt with 400 goals again in the near future. If that team is the Oilers and McDavid is still inside his 20s, we’re probably going to see 180-190 points from him.

I got your overall point though; just saying that it’s possible that someone like Lemieux could have hit 190 on a team that scored sub 340 goals because it pretty much happened in the games that he played during that 1988-1989 season.

 

[VainGretzky]

You've never seen Mario Lemieux play?

I have seen Howe play Orr play Gretzky Play Lemieux Play and Gretzky was the best of them all and McDavid is not far removed from that group

 

[lawrence]

He never will be in their company but he's in that next tier.

I think theres a chance he can be, when its all said and done. right now no. but in Mcdavid played in the 80's I think he can hit 200 points.

 

[SaltNPeca]

That's nice and all but how about 7, 8 or 9 points before a 10 point game? Only one 6 point game so far, too: List Of 6+ Point Games By Active NHL Players | StatMuse

no one touches Samwise Gagner 8 point night

 

[Cup or Bust]

We don’t know that for sure though. Scoring could continue to tick upwards. Most of us were depressed and wondering about the future of the 100 point scorer after Benn won the Art Ross less than a decade ago.

As you noted, the Oilers are on pace for 322 goals. Florida scored 340 last season. It’s no longer inconceivable that a team could flirt with 400 goals again in the near future. If that team is the Oilers and McDavid is still inside his 20s, we’re probably going to see 180-190 points from him.

I got your overall point though; just saying that it’s possible that someone like Lemieux could have hit 190 on a team that scored sub 340 goals because it pretty much happened in the games that he played during that 1988-1989 season.

It would be pretty cool to see that and you are right. Offense is trending upwards so maybe we will see a team flirt with the high 300's in goals. I know Jack Campbell is doing his best to help increase league scoring.

no one touches Samwise Gagner 8 point night

The legend. I believe he had 3 points in the first period of his next game also. The guy was scorching earth for a couple of days.

 

[Duffalufagus]

You've never seen Mario Lemieux play?

Grew up watching him. McDavid's skill set is on another level.

 

[McFlash97]

Grew up watching him. McDavid's skill set is on another level.

Mario was skilled as heck. Except he just did it a lot slower than McDavid. McDavid is like a sped up Lemieux and slightly larger than Gretzky

 

[Pass the Saitl Sauce]

It would be pretty cool to see that and you are right. Offense is trending upwards so maybe we will see a team flirt with the high 300's in goals. I know Jack Campbell is doing his best to help increase league scoring.


The legend. I believe he had 3 points in the first period of his next game also. The guy was scorching earth for a couple of days.

Gagner had something like 13 points in 3 games and finished with about 40 points on the year

 

[paracord]

Mario was skilled as heck. Except he just did it a lot slower than McDavid. McDavid is like a sped up Lemieux and slightly larger than Gretzky

Much of the stuff that Lemieux did, did not need to be done fast. He purposely slowed the game down but his moves were 3 steps ahead. Same with Gretzky.

 

[TheAngryHank]

I smell a 4 point night ..

 

[TheAngryHank]

Much of the stuff that Lemieux did, did not need to be done fast. He purposely slowed the game down but his moves were 3 steps ahead. Same with Gretzky.

He was skilled and had monster reach and used it well. but he was so useless when the puck wasn't on his stick or going the other way is my knock on Mario . That and being a snot nose.

 

[paracord]

He was skilled and had monster reach and used it well. but he was so useless when the puck wasn't on his stick or going the other way is my knock on Mario . That and being a snot nose.

he was the best defensive player on the ice when he wanted to be as well. Definitely not useless. He has the all time record for short handed goals in a season with 13. That's a lot of defense -> offense PK time.

 

[TheAngryHank]

he was the best defensive player on the ice when he wanted to be as well. Definitely not useless. He has the all time record for short handed goals in a season with 13. That's a lot of defense -> offense PK time.

seems legit , the puck was on his stick.

 

[authentic]

he was the best defensive player on the ice when he wanted to be as well. Definitely not useless. He has the all time record for short handed goals in a season with 13. That's a lot of defense -> offense PK time.

seems legit , the puck was on his stick.

Lemieux showed what he was capable of defensively during his Stanley Cup wins. No Selke candidate but there was not a lack of skill there on his part.

 

[cupface52]

he was the best defensive player on the ice when he wanted to be as well. Definitely not useless. He has the all time record for short handed goals in a season with 13. That's a lot of defense -> offense PK time.

And Gretzky holds the record for most SHP in a season with 23, 5 more than Lemieux ever scored. Gretzky also holds 4 of the top 6 spots for single season SHP. Also holds the record of most total SHP, 5 ahead of 2nd and 66 ahead of 3rd, more than double than that of Lemieux.

No one would ever call Gretzky a top tier defensive player though.


Funny enough, plenty of posters try and claim Lemieux would score more ESP if he played less SH, but it looks like Gretzky played even more SH than Lemieux ever did.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Lemieux showed what he was capable of defensively during his Stanley Cup wins. No Selke candidate but there was not a lack of skill there on his part.

No , Playing D has nothing to do with skill which Mario had plenty , D is all effort.

 

[TheAngryHank]

McD with a bank shot

 

[BallardEra]

#59