still sucks about crosby's 10-11 and 11-12 (and then 12-13 lockout) seasons where his pace was crazy before the injuries and we could have seen some 130+ point seasons. if my math is right, the 11-12 and 12-13 seasons would have been his 7 and 8th seasons, similar to mcdavid's 7th season last year (123 points) and 8th this year (pending points).
McDavid heating up, what are odds on 150 points this season?
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still sucks about crosby's 10-11 and 11-12 (and then 12-13 lockout) seasons where his pace was crazy before the injuries and we could have seen some 130+ point seasons. if my math is right, the 11-12 and 12-13 seasons would have been his 7 and 8th seasons, similar to mcdavid's 7th season last year (123 points) and 8th this year (pending points).
He never will be in their company but he's in that next tier.
Calderon
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- Mar 24, 2006
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11 games left, 24 points off 160. In his last 11 games McDavid has amassed 10 goals and 13 assists for a total of 23 points. 160 is still possible but the wear and tear of the long season and the looming clinching of a playoff berth will likely have their effect on how much McDavid will play in the rest of the matches (just played over 28 minutes last night, comfortably his second-highest ice time this season!).
It would be nice to know how much if any though McDavid will put into the distribution of his points (as far as it's possible and viable) as two significant milestones are within reach (65 goals and 155 points). As it stands, he's still on pace to exceed both of those numbers (67 goals and 157 points), so it does look great.
The number for most assists in a season by an active player is easily within reach as well: if 67 goals and 157 points were to realize, that would mean 90 assists; the most is currently 87 by Kucherov (Joe Thornton, 96 assists, is assumed to be retired). Beating all active players' personal bests in the three most important offensive statistical categories in the same season would be nothing short of incredible and something I'd imagine hasn't been done too many times.
It would be nice to know how much if any though McDavid will put into the distribution of his points (as far as it's possible and viable) as two significant milestones are within reach (65 goals and 155 points). As it stands, he's still on pace to exceed both of those numbers (67 goals and 157 points), so it does look great.
The number for most assists in a season by an active player is easily within reach as well: if 67 goals and 157 points were to realize, that would mean 90 assists; the most is currently 87 by Kucherov (Joe Thornton, 96 assists, is assumed to be retired). Beating all active players' personal bests in the three most important offensive statistical categories in the same season would be nothing short of incredible and something I'd imagine hasn't been done too many times.
But the problem with this idea is that he was still untouchable by mortals on the PP, and more PP/SH time also means less ES time, and he was still the best there outside of Gretzky for most of his career, just like McDavid has still been this year
SuperScript29
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If he's not in that tier, then he's clearly the closest thing to it. Behind him comes the Jagr/Crosby/Ovechkin tier, then Yzerman/Sakic/etc tier. But keep in mind that he's still 26 years old, so there's still time for him to reach that level. The way I see it, if he dominates the trophy case, racks up the points, and wins a cup or two. There's no ifs or buts about it, McDavid would be on the tier of the great four.
Are you going by just raw points scored? I think at this point their careers, McDavid had something like 30 more points than Crosby. Crosby unfortunately lost a couple years of his prime where he was putting up huge numbers. McDavid play a year of his prime in that dumb "virus" period where everyone in Canada played the same weak teams over and over again.
I'm not even convinced McDavid is better than Crosby overall, let alone being in the exclusive suite occupied by Lemieux and Gretzky.
McDavid looks great this year and I'm sure he can keep it up for a good while. But let's not get crazy yet. This will be his first ever Richard trophy. Lemieux was an elite goal scorer every single minute of his career. McDavid wasn't even the best goal scorer on his own team until this year.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
After this year the only people with more Harts will be Gretzky, Howe and Shore, the only people with more Ross wins will be Gretzky, Howe and Lemieux
North Cole
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Crosby at 550 games had 769 points and this is going to the end of the 2013 season where he had 104 in 80 and then his scoring decreased into the 80's for four years. McDavid is currently at 558 games and has 833 points, so the gap is quite a bit larger than 30 points and is likely only going to increase from here on out.
Crosby at the end of the following season was at 627 games and 853 points. McDavid will likely be past that point total by the end of this season, giving him 58 games next year to build more of a lead. They would be much closer had he not missed so much time during his peak, but we are at the point in their careers where Crosby is now coming out of his peak by games played.
Cup or Bust
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I am hoping for 66 goals and 90 assists. McDavid is better than any player that has played in the league since Lemieux.
He had visually one of his worst games I've watched him play this year and still gets 2 points.
Now consider the eras and games played by each in their peak seasons. Makes the gap a little bigger when McDavid enjoyed healthier seasons in a higher scoring period at his peak.
After 558 Crosby had 783. So 50 more points instead of 30, up to today.
Given the years missed during prime, the virus season during McDavid's prime, and given Crosby at 3-0 in cups, 50 points isn't enough to tip the scales.
Not saying it won't happen...But I'd need to see a lot more than 50 regular season points after 558 games difference.
GreeningOil
Yarpmeister
Wayne Gretzky says he's the most talented player he's ever seen. Just yesterday Phil Esposito compared him to Bobby Orr .
I suggest you hop over to YouTube and watch a McDavid highlight reel and then watch a Lemieux/Gretzky. The latter is like watching paint dry compared to McDavid. Goalies sucked, defenseman were slow and rarely blocked shots vs today
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Gretzky was a covert player who blended in until you realized he had 4-5 points in one game. Highlights don't matter when you're that efficient. And Mario? I suggest you watch his highlights and tell me you seriously don't see why people rank him above McDavid. Their numbers speak for themselves regardless.
Cup or Bust
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You never get the full picture when just watching highlights unfortunately but one thing is that Gretzky played on teams that were scoring 400 goals a season when he was getting 200 points a season. Even Lemieux played on some powerhouse offensive teams scoring 340-370 goals. We will never get to see McDavid play on a team that will score 340-370 goals to see how many points he would get. This season is the best offensive team McDavid has played on and it's on pace for 322 goals. McDavid is on pace for 157 points. The most points Gretzky ever scored on a team that scored less than 330 goals is 164 points. Lemieux is 168. That was in an era with worse defense and goaltending as well. There is no way Gretzky or Lemieux are scoring what they did in that era in this era. I believe with all things being relatively equal McDavid is in that category with Gretzky and Lemieux and would likely have similar performances under similar circumstances. When Lemieux was on a team that scored 285 goals which would be comparable to this era, he had 122 points. When Gretzky played on teams scoring less then 300 goals he was about a 120-130 point player. Obviously they were older at that point but there are strong similarities there, Of course we will never know for sure. It is all speculation but McDavid is the only player I have ever seen that dominates games like Gretzky and Lemieux did.
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He probably wouldn't have hit 130 in that scoring environment, but could've probably done so in one of these last few seasons without injuries at his peak. No way he was getting close to 150 though like McDavid will easily surpass.
KCC
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It sucks. He only had 2 assists but man, he could have had 5 or 6 points easily. Hit the post on a breakaway , set up his teammates multiple times that game with the puck on a platter but they hit the post multiple times as well and then of course Reimer went into Gode mode making some insane saves.
I'd love him to get 160 but as long as he can get to 156. It would bump off Yzerman and then it would just be Gretzky, Lemiuex, McDavid. Crazy company to be in especially doing that in the modern salary cap era. To that that he needs to continue a 2 point per game pace. If he can get a few games of 3 or 4 points it will give him a little wiggle room to have a bad game. Guess we will see.
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Duffalufagus
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If we are simply talking about pure "talent" (as opposed to "greatness, which includes several factors), he is the most talented player to ever put skates on.
SensontheRush
Never said it was Sunshine
3-1
The North division wasn't even the worst division in the 'virus period", and it was effectively an injury derailed period for McDavid having 37 games eliminated in 2019-20 and 2020-21.
This is just counting stats though. Having actually watched the primes of both players, it's pretty clear that McDavid is on another level. That shouldn't take away from Crosby though, unless there is some insecurity there.
Most skilled for sure. Natural born talent only three players have an argument over him - Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr.
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