McDavid heating up, what are odds on 150 points this season?

[authentic]

Still less impressive on Crosby’s part. Half the games for starters.

Sure but we don't need to exclude two halfs from Crosby' to pretend the gap is massive, just like ignoring the scoring levels in their peak seasons.

We can all agree that McDavid will likely have 2 seasons and a playoff run better than Crosby's best, but the AINEC talk is still pretty far fetched. You only get there by ignoring the difference of 3+ goals per game NHL compared to 2.7

I'll remind everyone incase they're afraid to click on those links

McDavid's entire career so far (537 games) vs. the top 10 in points per game

1.47

1.27
1.20
1.18
1.16
1.14
1.14
1.14
1.12
1.12

Crosby's after 8 seasons (550 games) vs. the top 10 in points per game

1.40

1.22
1.20
1.13
1.11
1.07
1.06
1.06
1.04
1.04

McDavid playoffs (37 games)

1. Draisaitl 1.59
2. McDavid 1.49

1.32
1.22
1.21
1.09
1.08
1.08
1.06
1.06

Crosby playoffs (95 games)

1. Crosby 1.20
2. Malkin 1.16

1.07
1.06
1.05
1.02
1.00
1.00
1.00

 

[authentic]

Nah, I don't agree with this. The difference between that year and the year before is that Malkin had a shitty year in 2010-2011 before his knee exploded, that's about it. He played with extremely similar linemates between those two years, he had Kunitz at LW in both years and switched from Guerin in 2009-2010 to Dupuis in 2010-2011.

I think Crosby would have put up very similar numbers over a full 2010-2011 season as what he put up in the 2010 calendar year, which I already mentioned was 60 goals and 126 points in 80 games. I think his entire 2010 calendar year performance is really good at illustrating how good of a player he was at his peak.

You don't agree that it was remotely comparable? Look at the gap between him and the rest in points per game

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

1.61
1.37
1.28
1.28
1.24
1.18
1.15
1.13
1.09
1.08

17.5% better than 2nd in points per game, 30% better than 5th and 49% better than 10th

McDavid this season

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

1.84
1.58
1.50
1.46
1.42
1.39
1.35
1.31
1.29
1.29

16% better than 2nd, 30% better than 5th and 43% better than 10th

 

[wetcoast]

Difference is, Crosby bowed out after half a season and McDavid is still going strong.

The point was that Crosby played at the same offensive level of what McDavid is doing this season and of course everyone knows that he got injured that year.

We are doing the same for McDavid and he is on pace for 151 points right now and like I said I hope he makes it.

What do the adjusted stats say when trying to wave away why Crosby won a single Art Ross past the age of 19 and finished behind in scoring races while still in his 20s to the likes of Benn and Tavares?

Everyone also knows that season where Benn went on a tear with 15 points in like 7 or 8 of his last games and that Crosby missed 5 games that year and was a huge 2 points behind JT and 3 behind Benn big freaking deal eh?

Crosby BTW won the art Ross the season before so.....?

If your point is that McDavid is going to turn out better historically offensively than Crosby then I'll agree with you but he has a ways to go before he passes him on any all time list which he is pacing for but there are a lot of games to be played still.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

McDavid's 2020-2021 and 2022-2023 are better than anything Crosby has ever done.

Crosby at his best was roughly a 60 goal, 125 point player, which is what he did in the 2010 calendar year (80 games, 60 goals and 126 points split between the end of 09-10 and beginning of 10-11). McDavid right now is on pace to shatter that. It doesn't matter if scoring is higher, McDavid's literally on pace for 150 points right now and was on pace for 150 points in 2020-2021 as well.

Want to dismiss 2020-2021 because of Edmonton's division? Whatever, but what he's doing this year is special. What he's doing this year is the best offensive play of any player since Mario Lemieux put up 76 points in 43 games after coming out of retirement in the DPE.

It looks special on paper but it is no better than what crosby was doing given the scoring

 

[Rengorlex]

It looks special on paper but it is no better than what crosby was doing given the scoring

What Crosby was doing was not special then?

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

It looks special on paper but it is no better than what crosby was doing given the scoring

Agree. In those years a handful of players made it to 100 points in a season. This year Zach Hyman has a shot at 100 points. McDavid is awesome, but some historical perspective needs to be considered here.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

What Crosby was doing was not special then?

It is not special in the sense that it is not otherworldly in regards to level in comparison to crosby. Leon drai is second in scoring with a 1.58 ppg in 48 games. In a league that has tried to increase scoring and caters to offensive players with the softest nhl there has ever been. This league is way different than it was 10 years ago. Crosby had a 1.61 ppg in 41 games in 2011 and 1.60 ppg in 35 games in 2013 (got injured on first shift 1 minute into the first period of game 36. What this tells me and any other objective thinker is Crosby at his peak was a far better player than Leon. And a 1.60 ppg then would be roughly the 1.8 mcdavid is doing now. Maybe Crosby wouldn't win the ross but he'd be nipping on mcdavids heels at the very least. It's absurd to think that Crosbys numbers would mot be drastically higher in this nhl

 

[OKR]

PPG differencial to the next best on the seasons they lead the league in PPG:

2006-07: 0,129
2010-11: 0,34
2011-12: 0,229
2012-13: 0,306
2013-14: 0,1
2014-15: 0,006

Vs. McDavid’s

2021-22: 0,07
2020-21: 0,375
2017-18: 0,06
2016-17: 0,033

So Crosby was more dominant vs. his peers in that sense, but obviously this doesn’t tell it all since Crosby lead the league in PPG less consistantly than McDavid has, and his top 3 seasons in terms of PPG all were shorter due to injuries.

 

[Calderon]

After 50 games, McDavid is now slightly outscoring his epic self during the covid-shortened season 20-21:

20-21: 50 31-60-91 +26
22-23: 50 41-51-92 +4

Obviously a huge difference for the worse in +-, though. Then again, it was a intra-division season back then.

 

[KCC]

After 50 games, McDavid is now slightly outscoring his epic self during the covid-shortened season 20-21:

20-21: 50 31-60-91 +26
22-23: 50 41-51-92 +4

Obviously a huge difference for the worse in +-, though. Then again, it was a intra-division season back then.

He's due for a big run.

 

[Noldo]

PPG differencial to the next best on the seasons they lead the league in PPG:

2006-07: 0,129
2010-11: 0,34
2011-12: 0,229
2012-13: 0,306
2013-14: 0,1
2014-15: 0,006

Vs. McDavid’s

2021-22: 0,07
2020-21: 0,375
2017-18: 0,06
2016-17: 0,033

So Crosby was more dominant vs. his peers in that sense, but obviously this doesn’t tell it all since Crosby lead the league in PPG less consistantly than McDavid has, and his top 3 seasons in terms of PPG all were shorter due to injuries.

The difficulty with Crosby is that we don’t know for certain that he was able to maintain his peak production over a full season. If, and this is still a real if, McDavid actually finishes with 150+ points this season, he arguably gets credit for two such seasons as he validates the pace he maintained during the shortened season.

 

[authentic]

PPG differencial to the next best on the seasons they lead the league in PPG:

2006-07: 0,129
2010-11: 0,34
2011-12: 0,229
2012-13: 0,306
2013-14: 0,1
2014-15: 0,006

Vs. McDavid’s

2021-22: 0,07
2020-21: 0,375
2017-18: 0,06
2016-17: 0,033

So Crosby was more dominant vs. his peers in that sense, but obviously this doesn’t tell it all since Crosby lead the league in PPG less consistantly than McDavid has, and his top 3 seasons in terms of PPG all were shorter due to injuries.

And McDavid's highest seasons were 56 and currently 50 games so far. but yeah I think he's getting there because I can see him going on a big run after this break, the team is fully healthy and they need to make the playoffs while they're up against a lot of bottom feeder teams. He'll take this opportunity and run with it.

 

[BallardEra]

Connor McDavid continuing to raise the bar: 'We need to talk about it more'

 

[Rengorlex]

That makes no sense u have clearly never played hockey you don't just choose oh okay I'm gonna get more points you always put in the work and if u get points you get points

Martin St.Louis says different. There are too many games to play in an NHL season for players to go 100% all the time, otherwise they tire themselves out. Players pace themselves to be at their best when the games are most important.

 

[Big Bruce]

Martin St.Louis says different. There are too many games to play in an NHL season for players to go 100% all the time, otherwise they tire themselves out. Players pace themselves to be at their best when the games are most important.

U have no idea what u are talking about...and have even played hockey before?

 

[Rengorlex]

U have no idea what u are talking about...and have even played hockey before?

Not at a high enough level to argue against Martin St Louis

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

It looks special on paper but it is no better than what crosby was doing given the scoring

Are you talking about Crosby's 2010/11 pace? Crosby played half a season that year. Yeah he's only 50 games in but if McDavid does finish with 150 points it absolutely will be more impressive than anything Sid did.

If we want to have a discussion about stretches of dominance by players I'm sure we can take several sets of consecutive games by players not in this conversation who have had the same pace as Crosby did in 2010/11. A player playing at that pace for twice the amount of games and a full season is a lot different.

 

[Bfan14]

It looks special on paper but it is no better than what crosby was doing given the scoring

It's very clearly better than anything Crosby has done assuming he keeps the same pace

 

[authentic]

Are you talking about Crosby's 2010/11 pace? Crosby played half a season that year. Yeah he's only 50 games in but if McDavid does finish with 150 points it absolutely will be more impressive than anything Sid did.

If we want to have a discussion about stretches of dominance by players I'm sure we can take several sets of consecutive games by players not in this conversation who have had the same pace as Crosby did in 2010/11. A player playing at that pace for twice the amount of games and a full season is a lot different.

Crosby played at a dominant level (as dominant as McDavid has been if not more) for 185 straight games. That's over 2 full seasons worth spanning from the calendar year of 2010 to 2014. So other than McDavid no one else since 2000 has anywhere close to that many straight games of producing way more points than everyone else except Forsberg from 2002-05.

 

[Rengorlex]

Crosby played at a dominant level (as dominant as McDavid has been if not more) for 185 straight games. That's over 2 full seasons worth spanning from the calendar year of 2010 to 2014. So other than McDavid no one else since 2000 has anywhere close to that many straight games of producing way more points than everyone else except Forsberg from 2002-05.

Crosby didn't even lead the league in points during that stretch. He was seventh.

 

[Akrapovince]

Martin St.Louis says different. There are too many games to play in an NHL season for players to go 100% all the time, otherwise they tire themselves out. Players pace themselves to be at their best when the games are most important.

Another example in which I don’t know completely well is Dustin Penner coasting until he found out he has a bonus for goals and went on an absolute tear.

The NHL regular season is much like F1. Rarely are you showing true pace, but much of it is taking care of tires and overtaking when needed.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Agree. In those years a handful of players made it to 100 points in a season. This year Zach Hyman has a shot at 100 points. McDavid is awesome, but some historical perspective needs to be considered here.

Probably not the strongest argument, since Hyman is McDavid's linemate. Elevating a .54 P/GP player (prior to this season) to a ~100 pt. pace gives some perspective.

 

[Video Nasty]

Crosby played at a dominant level (as dominant as McDavid has been if not more) for 185 straight games. That's over 2 full seasons worth spanning from the calendar year of 2010 to 2014. So other than McDavid no one else since 2000 has anywhere close to that many straight games of producing way more points than everyone else except Forsberg from 2002-05.

He only played 60% of the available games during this stretch. Is it as impressive as you’re making it when we have to reach into five separate seasons for just a 185 game stretch?

By the time McDavid completes this season, it will be 400 games of continuous dominance, while playing 97% of the schedule over parts of 6 seasons, and racking up 4 Art Rosses, 3 Lindsays, 2 Harts, likely a Rocket, and finishing at least top 2 in both raw points and ppg every single year while adding two Hart finalist nominations and another four top 5 finishes.

Far more dominant in McDavid’s favor and a reign we haven’t seen since Gretzky and Lemieux.

 

[Rengorlex]

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Probably not the strongest argument, since Hyman is McDavid's linemate. Elevating a .54 P/GP player (prior to this season) to a ~100 pt. pace gives some perspective.

How many .54 P/GP players were elevated to 100 points in those years, because of great linemates and all?