McDavid heating up, what are odds on 150 points this season?

[Hynh]

Is this supposed to be a gotcha moment or something? We all know the reason Crosby didn't have many more Art Ross trophies, and it has nothing to do with his ability as a player. Now if you guys want to act like McDavid is closer to Lemieux and Gretzky than Crosby because Crosby got blindsided head shots and flying pucks to the jaw then go for it.

The reason he doesn't have more is he lost to f***ing Jamie Benn lmao

 

[North Cole]

I'm enjoying it myself.

Holland is trying to build Leafs West by signing all their castoffs. For such a vet GM, you'd figure he'd know better.

#RentFree

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Let's get this back on topic. If you can't figure out what the topic is, (1) it's in the subject line, and (2) it's not "shit on the Oilers".

I'll add that it's the usual suspects once again. If you want attention, we'll give you attention.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

The notion that McDavid "could be" #1-all time is not delusional. I'm 99% sure it won't happen, but it's certainly not impossible to conjure up without giving him any more ability than he currently has.

He still has 5 seasons left in his 20's (if you include this one). If he plays like this for all 5 of those seasons, he would have 9 art rosses, 7 Harts, 8 Lindsay's, 10 100-point seasons, etc, etc, at the age of 30. At that point he would have a legitimate shot of being #1 all time if he had a better career past age 30 than Gretzky did.

If McDavid stays healthy (always a big "if" for players who play with his kind of speed), I am 99% sure he will end up number two all time, and maybe 50% sure he will be number one. As some of these Oilers play and practice around him more and more, they will become the players he needs to pull of Gretzky's career numbers. Gretzky faded fast after his injury from the Suter hit. If McD can avoid that, he could play until he is in his late 30s and have 100 point seasons throughout. Players in Mario and Greztky's time did not take care of themselves like they do now. They didn't have the medical care these guys do now.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

I agree.

McDavid is a very great player. But let's not forget that he lost scoring races to Kucherov and Draisaitl.

Kucherov and Draisaitl are very good players themselves.

But them beating McDavid in a scoring race is something Gretzky and Lemieux never would have allowed to happen.

Did a prime Gretzky or a prime Lemieux lose scoring races to Peter Stastny, Dale Hawerchuk, Pat LaFontaine, Adam Oates, etc.? (These can be used as comparables to Kucherov, in a scoring sense).

Did a prime Gretzky or a prime Lemieux lose scoring races to Jari Kurri or Jaromir Jagr? (These can be used as comparables to Draisaitl, in that they were teammates to Gretzky and Lemieux just like Draisaitl is to McDavid).

The dominance and separation from his peers isn't there for McDavid the way it was for Gretzky and Lemieux.

Your Art Ross obsession is leading you away from what matters. What matters for a career point total isn't annual awards that can be hampered by injury to self or linemates. What matters most is PPG. McDavid is behind Gretzky, Lemieux and Mike Bossy. Fourth. Crosby is 7th. Let's see how that looks over the next ten years and then judge.

 

[jigglysquishy]

The likelihood of McDavid taking the number one spot is functionally zero. He is so incredibly far behind Gretzky at age 26 that it's really not even a fair comparison.

Mario is basically locked into the number four spot. McDavid is peaking a clear tier below Lemieux, but could have the longevity to overtake him. Small chance, but not zero. Requires tremendous longevity and for things to go his way.

 

[authentic]

I don't even care about statistics, to be honest. I care about what I can see.

What I see in McDavid is a guy who moves better with the puck than any player that has ever lived.

Stats from various eras and decades have a ton of variables. What doesn't is a player's skill.

Tell me one player in hockey history who combines McDavid's skating, puck handling, shooting, vision and playmaking. I'll wait. And I will keep waiting.

If you haven't been watching him this year, you are truly missing out. Every night is a highlight reel. Cripes, every shift he does something ridiculous. The idea that Matthews and him are in the same category makes me laugh. I'm watching the Leafs game right now. Not Even Close

He's the most skilled player ever. Especially with the puck on his stick. That's not really debatable. But judging players in an all-time sense isn't just looking at who has the most skill or else the modern player would always be the best. People said the same thing about Crosby and Ovechkin a decade ago and in another decade we'll be saying it about another player.

 

[North Cole]

The likelihood of McDavid taking the number one spot is functionally zero. He is so incredibly far behind Gretzky at age 26 that it's really not even a fair comparison.

Mario is basically locked into the number four spot. McDavid is peaking a clear tier below Lemieux, but could have the longevity to overtake him. Small chance, but not zero. Requires tremendous longevity and for things to go his way.

The only thing he really has going for him is that Gretzky diminished down from God status to more like immortal status after his back injury, so while it's a tall task, he could theoretically be more productive latter half of his career comparatively. Issue is that most of these all time discussions are based on peak/prime with longevity getting third rating so that likely isn't going to sway anyone unless he does some ungodly things in his 30's. Even OV doesn't seem to get much all time status boost from what he's currently doing.

 

[Adam da bomb]

The only thing he really has going for him is that Gretzky diminished down from God status to more like immortal status after his back injury, so while it's a tall task, he could theoretically be more productive latter half of his career comparatively. Issue is that most of these all time discussions are based on peak/prime with longevity getting third rating so that likely isn't going to sway anyone unless he does some ungodly things in his 30's. Even OV doesn't seem to get much all time status boost from what he's currently doing.

Except Gordie got a big boost from being the best over such a long time span. That it’s cool that he played with his kids and still dominated.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

The likelihood of McDavid taking the number one spot is functionally zero. He is so incredibly far behind Gretzky at age 26 that it's really not even a fair comparison.

Mario is basically locked into the number four spot. McDavid is peaking a clear tier below Lemieux, but could have the longevity to overtake him. Small chance, but not zero. Requires tremendous longevity and for things to go his way

Earlier in this thread I said I'd give him a 50% chance. He needs to average 140 points for the rest of his career, and play until he is almost 40.

Yeah...okay...I'm amending my previous response to <10% haha.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Except Gordie got a big boost from being the best over such a long time span. That it’s cool that he played with his kids and still dominated.

Howe is in a category of his own for longevity. Sure, it boosts him. But Howe's longevity is akin to Gretzky’s offense in difficulty to match.

Howe become a top 10 oldest player in the league in 1960-61. He then played 1206 major pro games afterwards.

He finished third in scoring at age 41.

He had 21 years top 5 in scoring. Only 41 players ever even played in 21 seasons.

He was a Hart finalist 12 times.

And that's all excluding his crazy peak.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Howe is in a category of his own for longevity. Sure, it boosts him. But Howe's longevity is akin to Gretzky’s offense in difficulty to match.

Howe become a top 10 oldest player in the league in 1960-61. He then played 1206 major pro games afterwards.

He finished third in scoring at age 41.

He had 21 years top 5 in scoring. Only 41 players ever even played in 21 seasons.

He was a Hart finalist 12 times.

And that's all excluding his crazy peak.

All of his records seem breakable by Mcdavid except for that amazing longevity.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

40.7%


The Oilers PP has been historically great the past few seasons. Careerwise, he's sitting around 33%

Not that I think players should be punished for being good on the PP. It's a part of the game. I mean, even Gretzky scored 31% of his points on the PP.

only nerds on this board think scoring on the PP is a crime against humanity

 

[Rengorlex]

My bold prediction is that he ends up 2.00 p/gp for the season.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

only nerds on this board think scoring on the PP is a crime against humanity

Unless it is Ovechkin scoring a goal. Then it is legendary.

 

[jcs0218]

Your Art Ross obsession is leading you away from what matters. What matters for a career point total isn't annual awards that can be hampered by injury to self or linemates. What matters most is PPG. McDavid is behind Gretzky, Lemieux and Mike Bossy. Fourth. Crosby is 7th. Let's see how that looks over the next ten years and then judge.

PPG is still based on raw numbers. Points and games played, which are the two variables, are raw numbers.

I don't judge of raw numbers.

I base on relative dominance. Comparison to peers.

I want you to give me an argument that McDavid is superior vs. peers.

Bonus points: Give me an argument that McDavid is even ahead of Lemieux, other than YouTube.

 

[BenchBrawl]

McDavid is incredible, but people are quick to forget how dominant Crosby was in his prime, and they're more in awe of McDavid because of his total numbers, but he plays in a more offensive era.

Defining Crosby's prime as the four seasons from 2010-2011 to 2013-2014, and McDavid's prime as 2020-2021 to now, the respective Top 10 point-per-game (PPG) scorers:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]2021-Now[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]PPG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]McDavid[/TD]

[TD]

181​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.72​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kucherov[/TD]

[TD]

88​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.49​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Draisaitl[/TD]

[TD]

179​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.46​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MacKinnon[/TD]

[TD]

143​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.37​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Matthews[/TD]

[TD]

167​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.32​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marner[/TD]

[TD]

171​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.26​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rantanen[/TD]

[TD]

168​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.26​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Panarin[/TD]

[TD]

160​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.25​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Barkov[/TD]

[TD]

151​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.19​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marchand[/TD]

[TD]

157​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.19​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2011-2014[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]PPG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Crosby[/TD]

[TD]

179​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.47​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Malkin[/TD]

[TD]

209​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.2​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stamkos[/TD]

[TD]

249​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.14​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]St. Louis[/TD]

[TD]

288​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.05​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Giroux[/TD]

[TD]

289​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.05​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ovechkin[/TD]

[TD]

283​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.01​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Getzlaf[/TD]

[TD]

270​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tavares[/TD]

[TD]

268​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.97​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Datsyuk[/TD]

[TD]

218​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.97​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kane[/TD]

[TD]

271​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.97​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Crosby is towering over everyone else in that stretch.

 

[Dust]

McDavid is incredible, but people are quick to forget how dominant Crosby was in his prime, and they're more in awe of McDavid because of his total numbers, but he plays in a more offensive era.

Defining Crosby's prime as the four seasons from 2010-2011 to 2013-2014, and McDavid's prime as 2020-2021 to now, the respective Top 10 point-per-game (PPG) scorers:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]

​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Crosby is towering over everyone else in that stretch.

I think the biggest difference honestly, is just health. We are playing a "What if" game with Crosby in his earlier seasons, and McDavid has only really missed about 40% of his rookie season. Who knows how many more awards that Crosby could have picked up if he had managed to avoid injuries.

 

[cupface52]

McDavid is incredible, but people are quick to forget how dominant Crosby was in his prime, and they're more in awe of McDavid because of his total numbers, but he plays in a more offensive era.

Defining Crosby's prime as the four seasons from 2010-2011 to 2013-2014, and McDavid's prime as 2020-2021 to now, the respective Top 10 point-per-game (PPG) scorers:

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]2021-Now[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]PPG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]McDavid[/TD]

[TD]

181​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.72​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kucherov[/TD]

[TD]

88​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.49​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Draisaitl[/TD]

[TD]

179​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.46​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]MacKinnon[/TD]

[TD]

143​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.37​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Matthews[/TD]

[TD]

167​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.32​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marner[/TD]

[TD]

171​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.26​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rantanen[/TD]

[TD]

168​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.26​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Panarin[/TD]

[TD]

160​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.25​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Barkov[/TD]

[TD]

151​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.19​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marchand[/TD]

[TD]

157​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.19​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2011-2014[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]PPG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Crosby[/TD]

[TD]

179​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.47​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Malkin[/TD]

[TD]

209​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.2​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Stamkos[/TD]

[TD]

249​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.14​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]St. Louis[/TD]

[TD]

288​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.05​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Giroux[/TD]

[TD]

289​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.05​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ovechkin[/TD]

[TD]

283​

[/TD]

[TD]

1.01​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Getzlaf[/TD]

[TD]

270​

[/TD]

[TD]

1​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tavares[/TD]

[TD]

268​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.97​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Datsyuk[/TD]

[TD]

218​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.97​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kane[/TD]

[TD]

271​

[/TD]

[TD]

0.97​

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Crosby is towering over everyone else in that stretch.

What if McDavid missed 60 games last year and only played in the first 22 games of the season. His ppg over the last 3 years now jumps up to 1.86. Crosby has never shown that he was able to maintain a "dominant ppg" over a full season, playing multiple partial seasons will bump up the ppg of any player. Notice how Crosby missed nearly 100 more games then most of those players while McDavid played the most.

Though I would give Crosby credit in '12-'13, where he missed 12 games and was just 4 points shy of the Art Ross winner. He was also noticeably above everyone in '13-'14, but not to the extent of McDavid.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Let's get this back on topic. If you can't figure out what the topic is, (1) it's in the subject line, and (2) it's not ”shit on the Oilers".

I'll add that it's the usual suspects once again. If you want attention, we'll give you attention.

Fantastic. 150 no but 130 absolutely.

Do the Leafs next.

 

[KCC]

I think the biggest difference honestly, is just health. We are playing a "What if" game with Crosby in his earlier seasons, and McDavid has only really missed about 40% of his rookie season. Who knows how many more awards that Crosby could have picked up if he had managed to avoid injuries.

Many players have had the talent and skill to break many records but couldn't stay healthy. Doesn't matter what Crosby "could have done". It's all shoulda, woulda, coulda like all the rest. It's such a tired argument that people use. Results and stats are what matters and you have to back it up and accomplish that. Crosby Couldn't. Pretty much as simple as that.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

i hope he scores 160

 

[authentic]

What if McDavid missed 60 games last year and only played in the first 22 games of the season. His ppg over the last 3 years now jumps up to 1.86. Crosby has never shown that he was able to maintain a "dominant ppg" over a full season, playing multiple partial seasons will bump up the ppg of any player. Notice how Crosby missed nearly 100 more games then most of those players while McDavid played the most.

Though I would give Crosby credit in '12-'13, where he missed 12 games and was just 4 points shy of the Art Ross winner. He was also noticeably above everyone in '13-'14, but not to the extent of McDavid.

This is true but on the flipside his 2013-14 was more dominant than any full season McDavid has had

 

[Video Nasty]

This is true but on the flipside his 2013-14 was more dominant than any full season McDavid has had

Not really. Not when McDavid is likely to lead the league in raw totals and per game rates for goals, assists, and points with no other big stars missing significant amounts of time.

2013-2014 was one of those funny years where some of the top PPG leaders missed large chunks of time.

Malkin and Tavares were #2 and #4 in PPG and missed 22 and 23 games respectively. Stamkos and Zetterberg were #5 and #6 and missed 37 and 45 games respectively.

Context friend. Crosby can’t always be granted only the positives angles of both him being injured and healthy.

Crosby still gets his Art Ross, Hart, and Lindsay no question, but that scoring race gets a little tighter if Crosby isn’t the only one playing 80 or more games.

No comparison to McDavid’s 2020-2021 or this season so far. I think there would be a fun debate if Crosby had 50 goals/120 points that season, regardless of who did or didn’t miss time.

 

[authentic]

Not really. Not when McDavid is likely to lead the league in raw totals and per game rates for goals, assists, and points with no other big stars missing significant amounts of time.

2013-2014 was one of those funny years where some of the top PPG leaders missed large chunks of time.

Malkin and Tavares were #2 and #4 in PPG and missed 22 and 23 games respectively. Stamkos and Zetterberg were #5 and #6 and missed 37 and 45 games respectively.

Context friend. Crosby can’t always be granted only the positives angles of both him being injured and healthy.

Crosby still gets his Art Ross, Hart, and Lindsay no question, but that scoring race gets a little tighter if Crosby isn’t the only one playing 80 or more games.

No comparison to McDavid’s 2020-2021 or this season so far. I think there would be a fun debate if Crosby had 50 goals/120 points that season, regardless of who did or didn’t miss time.

Brother, I said full season.