GDT: McCarron vs Guelph on Sportsnet

[Et le But]

We do? I haven't seen this.

Take a look at how the Habs drafted in the first round in the late 80's and especially in the 90's. Except for a certain undersized Finn, the Habs went with a lot of size...and a lot of busts. If we've overcompensated since then, we've had a lot more success in drafting - and the results have shown on the ice - lately compared to the disaster of the 90's.

I just looked at every guy the Habs drafted in the first round in the 90's. After Koivu the only player of note was Turner Stevenson.

Obviously drafting for size doesn't mean drafting busts, and the Habs horribly outdated scouts had plenty more wrong with them back then besides a size obsession, but I'm very glad we've looked at skill first since then.

 

[68*]

****k how did Horvat miss that?

 

[M.C.G. 31]

He's going to take a lot of time if he's going to become a consistent NHLer and play a big role on the team (top 6/9)... but I wouldn't be surprised if he completely busts, to be honest.

I don't want it to happen, but I thought it was quite the reach at that time.

 

[Whitesnake]

Well Horvat....that's just in great continuity of the WJC.....

Wow, just realized that Scott Walker is alraedy head coaching?

 

[Tanknation]

I live in London and have caught about 6 games this year. In all 6 games I don't think I had seen him make a good hit, or even fight. He is a decent OHL player no better or worst then any 17- 18 year old in the OHL this includes players that will never come close to being drafted. Like most say he is very Raw in terms of you cant tell anything by this player so far. He plays just as mediocre as most in the OHL is my impression

 

[Whitesnake]

I live in London and have caught about 6 games this year. In all 6 games I don't think I had seen him make a good hit, or even fight. He is a decent OHL player no better or worst then any 17- 18 year old in the OHL this includes players that will never come close to being drafted. Like most say he is very Raw in terms of you cant tell anything by this player so far is he plays just as mediocre as most in the OHL

It is not looking good so far......this year. Guy was picked out of potential and projections. At worst, he is a good definition of boom or bust based on needs. While the Habs were going with a safer pick later on in DLR. And a goalie who was also a need.

The idea is that, in the end, if a guy is so much better yet doesn't seem to fill a need, we should pick him anyway, as tons of prospects we think will make it, never will...or you could do a Neal for Goligoski type of swap if needed.

 

[Mathletic]

It is not looking good so far......this year. Guy was picked out of potential and projections. At worst, he is a good definition of boom or bust based on needs. While the Habs were going with a safer pick later on in DLR. And a goalie who was also a need.

The idea is that, in the end, if a guy is so much better yet doesn't seem to fill a need, we should pick him anyway, as tons of prospects we think will make it, never will...or you could do a Neal for Goligoski type of swap if needed.

thought there was no bust factor with McCarron

 

[Whitesnake]

I totally don't mean to realistically consider the threat. You would obviously sign him. Maybe just not immediately after the draft, that's all. Leave him a little hungry in Year 1.

But maybe they _wanted_ him to go the OHL route, and that was part of the price to pay for getting him to switch lanes too, who knows.

Well BG, that WAS it. He signed the contract the same day he announced his decision. Pretty sure that wasn't just a coincidence. Which for me means 2 things.....they either made a big mistake or they know exactly what they were doing.....and we'll see that in year 2 of his junior year. If they sign a kid a contract so he'd play in the OHL...it's because they think and know that this is how he will develop. But if he happens to bust, not signing him would have given us a pick like Fischer did....and for a bust, I would gladly take a 2nd round pick.

 

[Wats]

It's weird...in preseason he showed a lot of good things.

 

[Whitesnake]

thought there was no bust factor with McCarron

What do you mean? Though you did read me saying "At worst", not sure why he couldn't bust....like tons of other players do anyway. He will bust if he never improves and plays all of his junior seasons like he is now, and if that's his ceiling. If THAT happens, he busts. Thing is.....I don't believe he will. And I think we need to be extremely patient. So please make me remember where I said there were no bust factor with him.

 

[Mathletic]

What do you mean? Though you did read me saying "At worst", not sure why he couldn't bust....like tons of other players do anyway. He will bust if he never improves and plays all of his junior seasons like he is now, and if that's his ceiling. If THAT happens, he busts. Thing is.....I don't believe he will. And I think we need to be extremely patient. So please make me remember where I said there were no bust factor with him.

Grant told me there was no bust factor with McCarron

 

[DAChampion]

I'd feel more concerned by this thread, but I remember that Tinordi had an incredibly hard time his first year in London, and the Habs fan base was consequently panicking and regretting the pick. There were argument that a defensemen drafted in the first round needs to have an offensive touch.

Fast forward a few years, and Tinordi looks like a legitimate prospect.

 

[Whitesnake]

Grant told me there was no bust factor with McCarron

Grant believes a lot in this prospect. And I have no problem with him believing in a prospect. I also happens to have my guys, guys that when picked, I would have said the same thing. So Grant believes he's not going to bust. That's about it though. Only means he has a lot of faith in him. Thank god somebody does though.....Grant is pretty much the counterpart for the majority of this board as far as Mac is concerned. Though, I will agree with him is way too soon to judge.

 

[calder candidate]

The key factor is improving is foot speed, if he isn't fast enough he can't be a effective using is size.
For McCarron game his teammates are the biggest factor for is production he isn't a superstar he is supporting cast with potentiel offensive up side. he migth only be a 55pts player in the OHL, but with is style of play and size is production migth not drop of significantly as he move up to the AHL and NHL and even if doesn't put up any pts if he able to be sound defensively & use is size to wear down the other team he can play a important role on a NHL team as aoppose to a player like Reway that if he isn't put up pts can't play in the NHL.
That why I don't think he won't be a complet bust probably won't live up to is draft ranking since DLR will probably be playing a bigger role but as long as he plays in the NHL it a successfull pick and a other asset to work with.

 

[Et le But]

I trust Grant's judgment more than most on this board (I remember when people were mocking his defense of Teravainen...), and he's certainly more qualified to give an opinion than I am....I don' t know what to make of McCarron really at this point, but I think that's to be expected. I liked the Tinordi pick more than this one but he also was nothing but raw potential in his first year in London too.

He looks to me like the kind of gamble you should be saving for the second or third round....but that size distorts everything. If I pretend McCarron and De La Rose switched positions, I could sleep more easily...

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

The key factor is improving is foot speed, if he isn't fast enough he can't be a effective using is size.
For McCarron game his teammates are the biggest factor for is production he isn't a superstar he is supporting cast with potentiel offensive up side. he migth only be a 55pts player in the OHL, but with is style of play and size is production migth not drop of significantly as he move up to the AHL and NHL and even if doesn't put up any pts if he able to be sound defensively & use is size to wear down the other team he can play a important role on a NHL team as aoppose to a player like Reway that if he isn't put up pts can't play in the NHL.
That why I don't think he won't be a complet bust probably won't live up to is draft ranking since DLR will probably be playing a bigger role but as long as he plays in the NHL it a successfull pick and a other asset to work with.

I agree that McCarron's speed will be the crucial difference as to whether he becomes a useful top-nine player or a bottom trio guy/healthy scratch. As long as he can get to where he needs to go in time, his size will let him do things others can not.

 

[JPGoHabsGo]

I remember TInordi not being overly impressive in his first OHl season. Give big mac some time.

 

[puckeater]

You guys need to forget about McCarron until next year. He's hurt and it doesn't look like it's going to heal anytime soon.

 

[calder candidate]

Yes he a shoulder injury, I don't know way he is sitting out until it completely healed

 

[Connor McJesus]

Yes, there were reports very early in the OHL season that he had a nasty shoulder injury, how come he's still playing through that when clearly things aren't going very well for him ?

 

[Mr. Hab]

Well BG, that WAS it. McCarron signed the contract the same day he announced his decision. Pretty sure that wasn't just a coincidence. Which for me means 2 things.....they either made a big mistake or they know exactly what they were doing.....and we'll see that in year 2 of his junior year. If they sign a kid a contract so he'd play in the OHL...it's because they think and know that this is how he will develop. But if he happens to bust, not signing him would have given us a pick like Fischer did....and for a bust, I would gladly take a 2nd round pick.

Very helpful info for all of us.
(maybe Habs should sign less of their prospects...we'll get more 2nd Rnd Draft Picks this way! I hope it doesn't turn out like this, but...).

And, whatever happened with that 2nd Rnd Pick we got for not signing Fischer? (who did we pick?).

 

[WeThreeKings]

I have more faith in McCarron than I do for Frederick Gauthier

 

[Mr. Hab]

It is not looking good so far......this year. Guy was picked out of potential and projections. At worst, he is a good definition of boom or bust based on needs. While the Habs were going with a safer pick later on in DLR. And a goalie who was also a need.

The idea is that, in the end, if a guy is so much better yet doesn't seem to fill a need, we should pick him anyway, as tons of prospects we think will make it, never will...or you could do a Neal for Goligoski type of swap if needed.

Another good point that I totally agree with.

As a GM or chief scout...I'd always (always!) go for the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE (the one with the most potential, the one who looks like a sure thing, the one who may have the most value...better for your trading chips). Too many risks...too many busts? More BPA selections, more success. Or...?

Fucale:
Zachary is a great example of buying low, selling high...let's say we didn't need a goalie (we did)...Fucale in the 2nd Rnd is such a great bargain...his value is going higher and higher, imo. Next WJC...his value might be equivalent to a top 10 FIRST ROUND PICK vs where he was selected...in the 2nd Rnd Pick.
(btw, I want the Habs to keep Fucale unless they get an offer they CANNOT refuse... because he could end up being a really good one...nothing less than a better version of M-A Fleury).


McCarron:
<imo...McCarron is a forward version of our J.Tinordi...will take time to develop and we will eventually be happy. I remember lots of Hab fans here were bashing J.Tinordi after only one OHL season!!
<With a nickname like BIG MAC...he has to succeed (*wink wink*).
<McCarron may be playing with a serious shoulder injury...wait till next season...wait till it heals.
<pre-season...he was really good...it was not a fluke (he showed some hockey sense and good vision/passing), he didn't have this shoulder injury...let's remember this.
<That Montreal female tennis player (Bouchard) imo was kind of mean to McCarron...she could have politely declined his offer with a ''very nice of you, thank-you, very flattering, but no thank-you for now''...imo! (she seems cocky/mean from that one tweet! but what do I know! it's her right to decline someone's advance in a rude way! McCarron will make the Habs one day and eventually date a girl 10xs prettier than Bouchard...pretty on the inside and outside...don't take this post too seriously!! just trying to lighten things up in this thread!!lol!!).

Go Big Mac Go!! (be that solid 3rd liner we urgently need one day!!).

 

[Blind Gardien]

Very helpful info for all of us.
(maybe Habs should sign less of their prospects...we'll get more 2nd Rnd Draft Picks this way! I hope it doesn't turn out like this, but...).

And, whatever happened with that 2nd Rnd Pick we got for not signing Fischer? (who did we pick?).

How many NHL 1st round draft picks aren't signed in the first calendar year after the draft? Honest question. Without putting in the time to look it up, I would guess very few.

So maybe in the case of McCarron, I would amend my suggestion a little. *IF* going to London wasn't something that he was 100% sold on, and *IF* it's only signing bonus money that was key in persuading him to go that route... then to me, it suggests maybe his heart wasn't really in the OHL. Maybe that plays into his performance this year. Maybe if it becomes a situation that is contingent on $90,000 in your pocket, it's better to just let the guy go to the NCAA and have a longer window on signing him, and kudos to those who were behind the idea of a longer skills development opportunity for him in the NCAA instead...?

Just musing, not really anything serious. It is what it is now, and I'm still expecting him to improve in his OHL career.

Aside, people mention skating, but I'd also like to see more "killer instinct" in him, more aggression. He's "pretty physical", but not really "intimidating" yet. With his size he could be. Players can work on footspeed to some extent, but I worry a little more about personality traits that aren't as likely to change. I don't know how you make him "meaner". But maybe he is and his shoulder has held him back, maybe he is and I'm just not seeing it, etc. Again, not a big deal, just a "musing" based on limited observation and no personal interaction whatsoever.

 

[Whitesnake]

And, whatever happened with that 2nd Rnd Pick we got for not signing Fischer? (who did we pick?).

Fischer might "still" be able to help us....That 2nd rounder we got was traded to the Isles when we got Wiz. Then...when we traded Wiz rights, we acquired a 7th rounder which would become a 5th if Wiz would sign with Columbus, which he did. And that 5th rounder became....Charles Hudon.

So if Hudon can stop being hurt and plays a role for us....we'll have to take a minute to remember the great David Fischer. Who,s having a hell of a season with the Penguins this year.....the Krefeld Penguins that is, in Germany. 14 points in 24 goals, but most importantly 6 GOALS. Which I have no idea how he got those as Fischer was probably the guy from all the development camps I've seen that had the worst arsenal of shots ever, especially the wrister. I saw goalies with better wristers.