Matvei Michkov vs. Ivan Demidov; who will be better?

[Hanji]

MHL is FAR below USHL, it's closer to HS level. VHL is about even with USHL

This might take the cake as the most ill-informed thing I’ve ever read here.

Wow, just wow.

 

[ijuka]

MHL is FAR below USHL, it's closer to HS level. VHL is about even with USHL

╔══════════════════╦═══════╗
║ League ║ NHLe ║
╠══════════════════╬═══════╣
║ NHL ║ 1 ║
║ KHL ║ 0.772 ║
║ Czech ║ 0.583 ║
║ SHL ║ 0.566 ║
║ NLA ║ 0.459 ║
║ Liiga ║ 0.441 ║
║ AHL ║ 0.389 ║
║ DEL ║ 0.352 ║
║ Allsvenskan ║ 0.351 ║
║ VHL ║ 0.328 ║
║ Slovakia ║ 0.295 ║
║ EBEL ║ 0.269 ║
║ WJC-20 ║ 0.269 ║
║ France ║ 0.250 ║
║ Belarus ║ 0.242 ║
║ Czech2 ║ 0.240 ║
║ EIHL ║ 0.235 ║
║ LNAH ║ 0.232 ║
║ DEL2 ║ 0.205 ║
║ Kazakhstan ║ 0.201 ║
║ NCAA ║ 0.194 ║
║ Denmark ║ 0.190 ║
║ Mestis ║ 0.178 ║
║ NLB ║ 0.176 ║
║ Italy ║ 0.176 ║
║ Norway ║ 0.173 ║
║ ECHL ║ 0.147 ║
║ OHL ║ 0.144 ║
║ MHL ║ 0.143 ║
║ USHL ║ 0.143 ║
║ WHL ║ 0.141 ║

These are from 3 years ago but should be in the ballpark

 

[Miro4Norris]

Michkov by far. It'll haunt Montreal for the next 20 years that they never drafted a real superstar when they had an opportunity and all they have is 4 Logan Couture(not playoffs) level forwards at best.

 

[uncleben]

If they reach ceilings?
Demidov will probably have a longer, more consistent, potentially more successful career
Michkov will have a more entertaining, "burn bright-burn fast" career

 

[Sam de Mtl]

You haven't seen bad attitude at all, you read it from a certain media outlet. Literally every teammate that was asked about that laughed it off, it's not a thing, never was.

I didn't see it? How would you know? How would you know what I saw or didn't see?

What I saw is Michkov pout and look angrily at his teammates for missing a play or not passing to him during the U18s while he was a double underager. I saw him scream at his teammates and I came out of this with the impression that he was a diva: a star player that always got his way and feels entitled to get angry at others because his status is different, higher, than others.

The way he behave around the draft a year and a half later is consistent with my early analysis. It comforts me in my belief that he is probably a hard to coach player because he thinks he knows better. I believe he is probably a toxic element in a dressing room. I don't need confirmation by teammates to believe it. I just do. I think we will see that come out in the next few years in the NHL. If it does, I won't be surprised. If it doesn't, I will be wrong and that's fine. It will be good for his team and good for him.

Now, whether you interpret those events the same way I do or not is totally up to you. You can also disagree with me and claim it is unsubstantiated by reports of teammates. That's allowed. But don't tell me what I saw or didn't see.

I am not on a crusade against Michkov. I have posted 3 or 4 times on the subject since seeing the U18s over two years ago. I am just one guy, it doesn't matter if I disagree with you. You can let it go.

 

[Jack Skellington]

What a weirdly hostile website lol. Some of you guys must really live for this.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

What a weirdly hostile website lol. Some of you guys must really live for this.

Michkov >>>> Demidov

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

You can keep repeating this all you want, it still is going to mean nothing. The league is entirely different, some players play better in the K, some better in the N. One constant is that NHL is a much higher scoring league. Kucherov and Kaprizov instantly scored more in the NHL

So you're telling me it's easier for a player to score goals when on the ice against Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar, Toews, etc. than it is to score goals when on the ice against players like Weal, Gusev, Paquette, Menell, etc.?

That makes no sense.

Kucherov played in the khl when he was 17-18 years old and he was likely getting limited minutes. He started producing in the NHL when he was 21 years old. That's 3-4 years of growth. Of course, he's going to be a much better player when he's 21 than when he was 17.

Same thing with Kaprisov. He's a far better player now than he was in his first NHL season and his last khl season.

When a player go from the NHL to the KHL you rarely ever see them struggle, whereas when a player go from the khl to the NHL, most of them struggle or play a much lesser role than they did in the khl.

Guys like Weal, Wideman, Boucher, Grigorenko, and many more, went from being barely NHL quality to being khl star players.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Can't wait to see both in NHL.

Demidov is a truly huge offensive talent aswell.

I think the hype of Michkov beat Demidov in this poll, but when you watch closely, Demidov don't need a translator, Demidov have been the chosen one by SKA in the beginning of the season, Demidov don't have any teammates who said that he is a asshole, Demidov is much more than the result of the poll.

That's should be much closer than that, but I understand the hype of Michkov.

Demidov is still my favorite between both. (Not because I'm a Habs fan), Demidov have something more than Michkov. I wanted so badly last year Michkov, so I understand the love of Michkov by users Hfboard's... but don't sleep on Ivan Demidov !

 

[CanadianSniper]

Until we see Demidov play against actual competition outside the MHL it will always be Michkov. Michkov has 2 insane pro-hockey seasons under his belt including his draft year. Demidov dominated the MHL but that league is on par with the AJHL at this point. The last player to be drafted in the 1st round while playing only in the MHL in their draft year was Grigori Denisenko 15th overall in 2018.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Until we see Demidov play against actual competition outside the MHL it will always be Michkov. Michkov has 2 insane pro-hockey seasons under his belt including his draft year. Demidov dominated the MHL but that league is on par with the AJHL at this point. The last player to be drafted in the 1st round while playing only in the MHL in their draft year was Grigori Denisenko 15th overall in 2018.

I can't believe the habs reached for Demidov like that, guess they were trying to make ammends for passing on Michkov prior.

Dummies.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Can't wait to see both in NHL.

Demidov is a truly huge offensive talent aswell.

I think the hype of Michkov beat Demidov in this poll, but when you watch closely, Demidov don't need a translator, Demidov have been the chosen one by SKA in the beginning of the season, Demidov don't have any teammates who said that he is a asshole, Demidov is much more than the result of the poll.

That's should be much closer than that, but I understand the hype of Michkov.

Demidov is still my favorite between both. (Not because I'm a Habs fan), Demidov have something more than Michkov. I wanted so badly last year Michkov, so I understand the love of Michkov by users Hfboard's... but don't sleep on Ivan Demidov !

It isn't hype, if you watch both prospects, Michkov is clearly the superior talent, numbers and eye test. The "more" you're referring to is quite a wild thing, can you elaborate on something that hasn't already been debunked here?

 

[HabbyGuy]

No matter which side of the fence you sit on I think it's safe to say that fans of the NHL in general should just be happy to have the pleasure of enjoying either of these players. I know I am very much looking forward to watching them both play.

Seriously who doesn't love an uberly skilled Russian hockey player?

 

[Sasso09]

Simmer down. It’s not a dick measuring contest between fan bases comparing Pokémon. It’s a discussion about prospects and their profile. Michkov’s own organization in Russia felt he wasn’t quick enough for their tastes.

Now, does it ultimately affect which player will succeed in the NHL? Yes, but only to an extent. We can only hope they both succeed and we get to enjoy their talents for years to come.


I wouldn’t bet against Michkov’s high end tools though.

You're just downright making stuff up. Rottenberg didn't like that Michkov was trying to get out of his contract, simple as that. Nothing was mentioned about his speed, if it were a problem for Michkov it would be a problem for Demidov as well. Both of are average speed.

This might take the cake as the most ill-informed thing I’ve ever read here.

Wow, just wow.

So you don't watch hockey is what you're saying?
MHL is nowhere near USHL, it's a very very weak league.

 

[Sasso09]

╔══════════════════╦═══════╗
║ League ║ NHLe ║
╠══════════════════╬═══════╣
║ NHL ║ 1 ║
║ KHL ║ 0.772 ║
║ Czech ║ 0.583 ║
║ SHL ║ 0.566 ║
║ NLA ║ 0.459 ║
║ Liiga ║ 0.441 ║
║ AHL ║ 0.389 ║
║ DEL ║ 0.352 ║
║ Allsvenskan ║ 0.351 ║
║ VHL ║ 0.328 ║
║ Slovakia ║ 0.295 ║
║ EBEL ║ 0.269 ║
║ WJC-20 ║ 0.269 ║
║ France ║ 0.250 ║
║ Belarus ║ 0.242 ║
║ Czech2 ║ 0.240 ║
║ EIHL ║ 0.235 ║
║ LNAH ║ 0.232 ║
║ DEL2 ║ 0.205 ║
║ Kazakhstan ║ 0.201 ║
║ NCAA ║ 0.194 ║
║ Denmark ║ 0.190 ║
║ Mestis ║ 0.178 ║
║ NLB ║ 0.176 ║
║ Italy ║ 0.176 ║
║ Norway ║ 0.173 ║
║ ECHL ║ 0.147 ║
║ OHL ║ 0.144 ║
║ MHL ║ 0.143 ║
║ USHL ║ 0.143 ║
║ WHL ║ 0.141 ║

These are from 3 years ago but should be in the ballpark

These charts as so far off it's comical. KHL worth double AHL?

AHL close to DEL and VHL? give me a break

I didn't see it? How would you know? How would you know what I saw or didn't see?

What I saw is Michkov pout and look angrily at his teammates for missing a play or not passing to him during the U18s while he was a double underager. I saw him scream at his teammates and I came out of this with the impression that he was a diva: a star player that always got his way and feels entitled to get angry at others because his status is different, higher, than others.

The way he behave around the draft a year and a half later is consistent with my early analysis. It comforts me in my belief that he is probably a hard to coach player because he thinks he knows better. I believe he is probably a toxic element in a dressing room. I don't need confirmation by teammates to believe it. I just do. I think we will see that come out in the next few years in the NHL. If it does, I won't be surprised. If it doesn't, I will be wrong and that's fine. It will be good for his team and good for him.

Now, whether you interpret those events the same way I do or not is totally up to you. You can also disagree with me and claim it is unsubstantiated by reports of teammates. That's allowed. But don't tell me what I saw or didn't see.

I am not on a crusade against Michkov. I have posted 3 or 4 times on the subject since seeing the U18s over two years ago. I am just one guy, it doesn't matter if I disagree with you. You can let it go.

No one is reading past your first sentence, you're making stuff up with a weird perception. Again, you seen nothing.

 

[Sam de Mtl]

These charts as so far off it's comical. KHL worth double AHL?

AHL close to DEL and VHL? give me a break


No one is reading past your first sentence, you're making stuff up with a weird perception. Again, you seen nothing.

Welp, i bet some people read past one sentence. I feel for you. Gg.

 

[Sasso09]

So you're telling me it's easier for a player to score goals when on the ice against Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar, Toews, etc. than it is to score goals when on the ice against players like Weal, Gusev, Paquette, Menell, etc.?

That makes no sense.

Kucherov played in the khl when he was 17-18 years old and he was likely getting limited minutes. He started producing in the NHL when he was 21 years old. That's 3-4 years of growth. Of course, he's going to be a much better player when he's 21 than when he was 17.

Same thing with Kaprisov. He's a far better player now than he was in his first NHL season and his last khl season.

When a player go from the NHL to the KHL you rarely ever see them struggle, whereas when a player go from the khl to the NHL, most of them struggle or play a much lesser role than they did in the khl.

Guys like Weal, Wideman, Boucher, Grigorenko, and many more, went from being barely NHL quality to being khl star players.

What i'm telling you is simply fact.

Highest scoring players in the KHL were 89 then 79

NHL was 144,142,130 and 10 over 100.

I'm just presenting facts. NHL is much higher scoring league. Kucherov is NOT putting up 144 over there, not even close. KHL is just a more defensive oriented league.

Obviously the NHL is the best league in the world and the talent level isn't close, it's just a different product that doesn't translate well at all when you're just looking at points.

If that were the case you would have to say that the 15 best goalies in the world all play in the KHL due to their GAA and SV%

Welp, i bet some people read past one sentence. I feel for you. Gg.

Not one person did, no one is co-signing buster.

 

[HabbyGuy]

Scott Wheeler weighs in on Michkov and Demidov. Starts at the 12:56 mark and ends at 20:09

 

[ReHabs]

You're just downright making stuff up. Rottenberg didn't like that Michkov was trying to get out of his contract, simple as that. Nothing was mentioned about his speed, if it were a problem for Michkov it would be a problem for Demidov as well. Both of are average speed.

Incidentally — I’ve written about this before — I’ve actually spoken to someone very close to the matter and high up at SKA and they specifically cited Michkov’s speed and size as issues. I asked if the Habs made a mistake not picking Michkov and the person said he feels probably not because Michkov has to improve a lot in that domain.

Give it a rest.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

What a weirdly hostile website lol. Some of you guys must really live for this.

Welcome to the internet, no matter where you go as long as there are multiple posters it's the same.

 

[Zine]

Incidentally — I’ve written about this before — I’ve actually spoken to someone very close to the matter and high up at SKA and they specifically cited Michkov’s speed and size as issues. I asked if the Habs made a mistake not picking Michkov and the person said he feels probably not because Michkov has to improve a lot in that domain.

Give it a rest.

If you actually believe anything coming from SKA, I have a broken Lada Riva to sell you for $100K.

They've repeatedly downplayed Michkov's skills to publicly justify sending him to Sochi. Their misuse of young talent, in addition to their politicization of basically everything, is embarrassing.

 

[ReHabs]

If you actually believe anything coming from SKA, I have a broken Lada Riva to sell you for $100K.

They've repeatedly downplayed Michkov's skills to publicly justify sending him to Sochi. Their misuse of young talent, in addition to their politicization of basically everything, is embarrassing.

I think Michkov is a brilliant prospect and player but your argument doesn't hold up at all. SKA might actually not rate Michkov as highly as others do -- it's not an objective process and it could very well be that SKA sees less in him than you or I. Habs GM Marc Bergevin didn't rate PK Subban either when most of the league saw him as a topX dman.

 

[Zine]

I think Michkov is a brilliant prospect and player but your argument doesn't hold up at all. SKA might actually not rate Michkov as highly as others do -- it's not an objective process and it could very well be that SKA sees less in him than you or I. Habs GM Marc Bergevin didn't rate PK Subban either when most of the league saw him as a topX dman.

Point is it's foolish to put any weight behind what anybody on SKA says. They, without question, have ulterior motives for everything they say about Michkov.... the majority of which is/was beyond absurd.
I mean even the reason SKA gave for letting him out of his contract was just.....

For anybody else's opinion, hey, have at it.

 

[ReHabs]

Point is it's foolish to put any weight behind what anybody on SKA says. They, without question, have ulterior motives for everything they say about Michkov.... the majority of which is/was beyond laughable.
I mean even the reason for letting him out of his contract was absurd.

They held his rights for 3+ years. They could've traded him elsewhere or cut him loose or did basically whatever. They loaned him because they felt his physical game wasn't up to par for their expectations. It's not a big conspiracy and SKA didn't need to have hidden motivations or to lie to the public about Michkov. The person with whom I spoke was very clear that he didn't think Michkov had enough power to be successful in the NHL. He dismissed the off-ice or allegations of personality issues very clearly. He said it was primarily a skating/power issue.

Sochi took him on loan and he did well there. Different standards, different expectations, different playing styles. It isn't the first or last case of two different organisations getting two different performances out of the same player.

For anybody else's opinion, hey, have at it.

I defer to the one organisation that's actually worked with him, thanks.

 

[Zine]

They held his rights for 3+ years. They could've traded him elsewhere or cut him loose or did basically whatever. They loaned him because they felt his physical game wasn't up to par for their expectations. It's not a big conspiracy and SKA didn't need to have hidden motivations or to lie to the public about Michkov. The person with whom I spoke was very clear that he didn't think Michkov had enough power to be successful in the NHL. He dismissed the off-ice or allegations of personality issues very clearly. He said it was primarily a skating/power issue.

Sochi took him on loan and he did well there. Different standards, different expectations, different playing styles. It isn't the first or last case of two different organisations getting two different performances out of the same player.

I defer to the one organisation that's actually worked with him, thanks.

He was shipped to Sochi because his physical game wasn't up to par for SKA's expectations?
Don't tell me you actually believe that.

Let me guess, you also believe Demidov should've spent the entire year in the MHL too because he was totally not ready for at least VHL hockey after playing fantastic in KHL preseason!


Is that you Rotenberg?