Prospect Info: Matthew Tkachuk or PL Dubois (Round 3)

[BROCK HUGHES]

Only way canucks draft jesse if they trade up. Columbus will trade #3 to get extra assets if they rather draft someone else. And edmonton will not pass up on jesse if he somehow falls..perfect winger for mcdavid

I hope we can move up to the number 3 but what would be the cost.Baertschi and the #5?? i would do it.I would be p-ssed if we do not come out of this draft without either J P,or PLD or MT.I do not want anything to do with a project that can be a Joe Thornton projection.That is like 2-3 years away.Knowing our luck Brown would turn into a Daigle type player.Just my opinion.

 

[Ainec]

Had a dream Puljujarvi was there at 5th after Tkachuk and Dubois went ahead

We wanted Dubois or Brown so we picked Brown and Calgary took Jessie

 

[CanaFan]

I hope we can move up to the number 3 but what would be the cost.Baertschi and the #5?? i would do it.I would be p-ssed if we do not come out of this draft without either J P,or PLD or MT.I do not want anything to do with a project that can be a Joe Thornton projection.That is like 2-3 years away.Knowing our luck Brown would turn into a Daigle type player.Just my opinion.

Baertschi is nowhere near enough to entice CBJ to swap spots. Not to mention Edm, Cgy, Arz could all beat that trade easily if it could get them Puljujarvi.

I don't even know what we have that aligns with what CBJ wants, but if I took a stab at "value" I'd say something like #5 + Demko + Hansen for #3. That's a top goalie prospect and a useful mid 6 forward to move up 2 spots. And even that could be beat unless we swapped Boeser in for Demko, which I wouldn't do personally.

I also think #5 + McCann + 33rd would have caught Kek's attention given their apparent interest in drafting a Centre, but we all know that ship has sunk.

 

[lawrence]

brown? really guys, Benning is not going to pick him, its all these insiders that have no inside info about anything and just want click bait, or just hype up the draft.

Its Dubois/Tkachuk for Vancouver. that is all. will love any of them.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Their point totals confirm what they're good at, offensively at least.

For someone who constantly berates ppl for weak supporting arguments you're really avoiding supporting your own... and answeringthe question.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Had a dream Puljujarvi was there at 5th after Tkachuk and Dubois went ahead

We wanted Dubois or Brown so we picked Brown and Calgary took Jessie

That would result in a Frank Grimes meltdown for me.

 

[tantalum]

That would result in a Frank Grimes meltdown for me.

 

[luongo321]

brown? really guys, Benning is not going to pick him, its all these insiders that have no inside info about anything and just want click bait, or just hype up the draft.

Its Dubois/Tkachuk for Vancouver. that is all. will love any of them.

100% agreed.

 

[Ainec]

Hey.. I've already experienced it with this regime when we passed on Ehlers to select Virtanen.

I didn't even say that to bash Benning and co. was a real dream true story. Benning wanted a center, spotlight was on him they went back and forth between Dubois and Brown in the war room and when Puljujarvi unexpectedly became available they went with recency and exposure bias and took Logan Brown

 

[PM]

But guys Brown is so tall! He would be great at getting offensive and defensive rebounds under the rim (oops wrong sport). He would be great at leaping/lunging for line drives in the infield and pitching (oops wrong sport). He would be great at beating cornerbacks and safeties for the touchdown pass (oops wrong sport). What exactly does being really tall do for one in the sport of hockey again?

Pick Dubois or Tkachuck, don't look back, no regrets.

 

[canwincup]

But guys Brown is so tall! He would be great at getting offensive and defensive rebounds under the rim (oops wrong sport). He would be great at leaping/lunging for line drives in the infield and pitching (oops wrong sport). He would be great at beating cornerbacks and safeties for the touchdown pass (oops wrong sport). What exactly does being really tall do for one in the sport of hockey again?

Pick Dubois or Tkachuck, don't look back, no regrets.

Yes I would prefer Tkachuk or Dubois but lets not act like Brown is some scrub.....Brown isn't projected to go in the top 10 just because of his size.

It's ridiculous how much flack Brown is getting, he's getting punished on this board because he's 6'7. GM's are considering his size a positive thing and for some odd reason this board thinks that being tall is a bad thing . Watch Brown play and you'll realize the kid has a lot of skill.

 

[PM]

Yes I would prefer Tkachuk or Dubois but lets not act like Brown is some scrub.....Brown isn't projected to go in the top 10 just because of his size.

It's ridiculous how much flack Brown is getting, he's getting punished on this board because he's 6'7. GM's are considering his size a positive thing and for some odd reason this board thinks that being tall is a bad thing . Watch Brown play and you'll realize the kid has a lot of skill.

I personally don't deny that he has a lot of skill but lets be honest here, the infatuation with him is due to his height. We see it all the time where posters get excited for a tall guy. If anything weight is probably more important in hockey than height unless we are talking Jordan Subban size.

If he used his size more that would be another story but from what I've heard and seen (in limited showings) he doesn't really. He would be a great pick if we weren't in the top-5 but we are and we should pick the better, more versatile player in either Dubois or Tkachuck. We aren't in a position as a franchise where we can gamble on someone like Brown, take the safe pick and be happy we got to draft a top-5 player.

 

[canwincup]

I personally don't deny that he has a lot of skill but lets be honest here, the infatuation with him is due to his height. We see it all the time where posters get excited for a tall guy. If anything weight is probably more important in hockey than height unless we are talking Jordan Subban size.

If he used his size more that would be another story but from what I've heard and seen (in limited showings) he doesn't really. He would be a great pick if we weren't in the top-5 but we are and we should pick the better, more versatile player in either Dubois or Tkachuck. We aren't in a position as a franchise where we can gamble on someone like Brown, take the safe pick and be happy we got to draft a top-5 player.

Fair enough, I just got a sense from you post that you were calling Brown a scrub and that's unfair to him. I would've been fine selecting Brown in the 8-10 range, but you're right there's no way we should pass on Tkachuk or Dubois to select Brown.

Also I think size does matter not as much as scouts/GM make it out to be, but with everything being equal I'll take the bigger guy.

 

[CanaFan]

I personally don't deny that he has a lot of skill but lets be honest here, the infatuation with him is due to his height. We see it all the time where posters get excited for a tall guy. If anything weight is probably more important in hockey than height unless we are talking Jordan Subban size.

If he used his size more that would be another story but from what I've heard and seen (in limited showings) he doesn't really. He would be a great pick if we weren't in the top-5 but we are and we should pick the better, more versatile player in either Dubois or Tkachuck. We aren't in a position as a franchise where we can gamble on someone like Brown, take the safe pick and be happy we got to draft a top-5 player.

bolded is untrue. He uses his size to give him added reach and shield the puck from defenders. That is the upside of a 6'6 already 220lb frame. When people say he doesn't "use his size" I assume they expect him to be skating around crashing into people or something. That isn't his game nor should it be given his skill set. The upside scouts see is a guy who has elite vision and a frame that will allow him to fend off defenders and buy time to find seams and lanes.

 

[Verviticus]

I dunno. Anecdotally I'm not sure I can think of too many cases where that seems to fit. Derek Dorsett applies as much effort as I've ever seen, but he plays like an idiot. Radim Vrbata has hockey smarts coming out his ass, but most nights he just looked disinterested. I have trouble accepting that Vrbata just wasn't "smart enough to decide to work harder" and that Dorsett is some kind of high IQ guy who just lacks skills.

I think effort and intelligence are two largely unrelated aspects of a person's characteristics. Could be wrong of course, I just don't see the connection.

so delete iq from what i said and use wherewithal - it seems absolutely insane that some people have figured out "oh if i punch people and headbutt everything in range, i get paid $550,000 a year" and yet thousands of guys like jensen that fail out for lack of effort don't get it.

i just get the feeling its an easy criticism to fall upon - hockey player isnt skating hard, hockey player must not want it badly enough - as opposed to being correct. though i guess if you arent a coach, its not really practical to care

 

[Bleach Clean]

The question is: Given that the Oilers take Tkachuk, does Keller or Jost supplant Dubois at pick #5?

Keller's production has been excellent, but I can see the projection argument work against him due to his physical traits. Jost doesn't have those question marks. With him, it's all about equating league strength. If a team gets it right, maybe they get a player that is better than both Tkachuk and Dubois. To me, he's the true 'wild card' in this evaluation.

 

[canwincup]

bolded is untrue. He uses his size to give him added reach and shield the puck from defenders. That is the upside of a 6'6 already 220lb frame. When people say he doesn't "use his size" I assume they expect him to be skating around crashing into people or something. That isn't his game nor should it be given his skill set. The upside scouts see is a guy who has elite vision and a frame that will allow him to fend off defenders and buy time to find seams and lanes.

Couldn't agree more, just because he's 6'7 and he doesn't hit does not mean that he doesn't uses his size. Brown is really good at protecting the puck and using his body to create time and space to find open teammates.

PLD and Tkachuk are much more physical than Brown but that's not his game, Brown tries to play the game like Joe Thornton does. I wouldn't call Thornton tough by any means but he does use his size and strength to win puck battles that's why he's so dominant down low.

 

[Bad News Benning]

bolded is untrue. He uses his size to give him added reach and shield the puck from defenders. That is the upside of a 6'6 already 220lb frame. When people say he doesn't "use his size" I assume they expect him to be skating around crashing into people or something. That isn't his game nor should it be given his skill set. The upside scouts see is a guy who has elite vision and a frame that will allow him to fend off defenders and buy time to find seams and lanes.

But if he uses his size and is so skilled why did he only put up 74 pts in 59 games? Dubois and Tkachuk were able to combine size/skill and dominate against their peers. Clearly something is missing in Brown's game that prevents him from dominating like a Top 5 pick. I feel like Brown is a long term project that I'd rather see someone other than the canucks roll the dice on. There is nothing that Brown does that Dubois or Tkachuk can't do as well if not better.

 

[canwincup]

But if he uses his size and is so skilled why did he only put up 74 pts in 59 games? Dubois and Tkachuk were able to combine size/skill and dominate against their peers. Clearly something is missing in Brown's game that prevents him from dominating like a Top 5 pick. I feel like Brown is a long term project that I'd rather see someone other than the canucks roll the dice on. There is nothing that Brown does that Dubois or Tkachuk can't do as well if not better.

Tkachuk and Dubois are better prospects I don't think anyone is arguing that, but there's enormous upside with Brown. With that being said we aren't in a position to take a chance on Brown, but the criticism that Brown is getting is unfair.

Also if Brown had Marner and Dvorak as line mates he would've put up huge numbers as well.

 

[PM]

bolded is untrue. He uses his size to give him added reach and shield the puck from defenders. That is the upside of a 6'6 already 220lb frame. When people say he doesn't "use his size" I assume they expect him to be skating around crashing into people or something. That isn't his game nor should it be given his skill set. The upside scouts see is a guy who has elite vision and a frame that will allow him to fend off defenders and buy time to find seams and lanes.

I should have been more clear but yes I was referring more to physicality. I think Brown would be a fantastic pick anywhere after ours basically but for once we are within the talent drop so I hope we do the smart thing and take the top-5 prospect. Plus I've had a thing for Dubois ever since the Top Prospects game and I'm praying to the gods of hockey that we actually get him. #PrayforPierreLuc

 

[CanaFan]

But if he uses his size and is so skilled why did he only put up 74 pts in 59 games? Dubois and Tkachuk were able to combine size/skill and dominate against their peers. Clearly something is missing in Brown's game that prevents him from dominating like a Top 5 pick. I feel like Brown is a long term project that I'd rather see someone other than the canucks roll the dice on. There is nothing that Brown does that Dubois or Tkachuk can't do as well if not better.

Lots of reasons, though mainly that what a player does in a single season at 17/18 does not always predict what they will do at 22 or 23.

Its a tricky game and scouts get it wrong as often as they get it right, but what I am sure they like about Brown is the sense that he will eventually have the size and frame to play the same style of game in the NHL that he does in junior. The risk is he doesn't build upon the improved consistency that he showed in the back half of the season and at the U18's and ends up a novelty more than an effective player.

Hence the huge swings in his projection, namely scouts love what he might become but are fearful that he won't reach it.

With Tkachuk and Dubois there are similar ceilings but much more surety and confidence that they will reach those ceilings or at least not fall too far short. Tkachul needs to pick up his skating a bit otherwise he is a surefire NHLer. Dubois is likewise a surefire NHLer, the question will be does he have 1C/W skill or is he more a 2C/W level like Horvat. Either way both project to have both high ceilings and floors, hence they are widely ranked 4 and 5. Brown has the ceiling but not the floor, and that is the only thing that makes him a gamble.

 

[CanaFan]

I should have been more clear but yes I was referring more to physicality. I think Brown would be a fantastic pick anywhere after ours basically but for once we are within the talent drop so I hope we do the smart thing and take the top-5 prospect. Plus I've had a thing for Dubois ever since the Top Prospects game and I'm praying to the gods of hockey that we actually get him. #PrayforPierreLuc

In that case yes, I agree he's not much of a crasher and banger but that isn't his game nor should it be. He has the strength and reach to battle for pucks and doesn't shy away from doing so, which is all I care about from a 1C.

And I have never argued to take Brown over Dubois, in fact I've been a vocal advocate of PLD since the prospects game. I'm just defending Brown from what I think are unreasonable expectations regarding how he uses his 6'6 frame. He uses it well to create offense and that is all I need from a 1C. Let our extremely tough and not-at-all-soft bottom 6 players like Vey, Granlund, and Sutter take care of that for us

 

[Seattle Totems]

brown? really guys, Benning is not going to pick him, its all these insiders that have no inside info about anything and just want click bait, or just hype up the draft.

Its Dubois/Tkachuk for Vancouver. that is all. will love any of them.

Have to wait and see until just before the draft but I am very afraid. If HW says the Canucks are going to pick Brown they are going to pick Brown.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Have to wait and see until just before the draft but I am very afraid. If HW says the Canucks are going to pick Brown they are going to pick Brown.

Honestly the way the 4-8 or so picks look in this draft I'm going to spend more time losing sleep over who we didn't pick than celebrating who we did.

Only real exception to that is if we somehow end up with Poolparty.

 

[CanaFan]

Have to wait and see until just before the draft but I am very afraid. If HW says the Canucks are going to pick Brown they are going to pick Brown.

If there's anything that should worry you (or any of us), it's scenarios like this:






Seriously, David ****ING Desharnais???? I have trouble believing EVEN Benning could be so stupid, but then again I have underestimated him before ...