Bad News Benning
Fallin for Dahlin?
Both have the upside to be 2nd line centers in the NHL but I personally like Jost's game more. It would take a lot of things to go right in the development for either to be 60-70 point number 1 centers.
Prospect Info: Matthew Tkachuk or PL Dubois (Round 3)
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Both have the upside to be 2nd line centers in the NHL but I personally like Jost's game more. It would take a lot of things to go right in the development for either to be 60-70 point number 1 centers.
mossey3535
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I agree with almost all of your post but how in the holy hell does trading a young promising center prospect FREE YOU TO DRAFT ANOTHER PROMISING CENTER PROSPECT. Dubois is my pick from my limited knowledge but he isn't a guaranteed anything. Nobody outside the top 3 is guaranteed anything.
Bad News Benning
Fallin for Dahlin?
Benning trading McCann and then reaching on a center would just be another example of Jimbo chasing his own tail.
mossey3535
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The circle will truly be complete when he trades Subban to recoup that second round pick.
Bankerguy
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Honestly, I think that the reason PLD is winning this poll is because people see this: 6'3, 200 lbs, C position. - potential top line C
I think that is kind of blinding the fact that PLD is coming from the Q. There arnt a lot of top line centers in the league that come from the Q.
If PLD and Tkachuk played the same position (c or w) the poll would tilted toward Tkachuk
I think that is kind of blinding the fact that PLD is coming from the Q. There arnt a lot of top line centers in the league that come from the Q.
If PLD and Tkachuk played the same position (c or w) the poll would tilted toward Tkachuk
I'd be really impressed by anyone here that can tell me what the differentiation between a 1 C, a 2 C, and a 3 C.
Obviouslt I know the answer already as a seasoned fan.. but new fans: would love to hear your thoughts
Obviouslt I know the answer already as a seasoned fan.. but new fans: would love to hear your thoughts
thefeebster
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I was not a big fan of trading down... much less trading for current help.
This position at 5 really isn't the ideal spot to trade down in, as i see it as a cut off for the 2nd tier. The ideal spot to trade down was in 2014, when at 6th, the players were so tightly clustered that we were able to make arguments for 4, maybe 5 players. Or if you are the Flames this year, trading down might be a good idea. But for us, i just don't like it.
This position at 5 really isn't the ideal spot to trade down in, as i see it as a cut off for the 2nd tier. The ideal spot to trade down was in 2014, when at 6th, the players were so tightly clustered that we were able to make arguments for 4, maybe 5 players. Or if you are the Flames this year, trading down might be a good idea. But for us, i just don't like it.
Depends on who you ask. But I don't believe so. Jost wins on pretty much every category head to head, besides height, F/O and passing/vision (which would be close). Jost wins on shot, smarts, two-way play, skating, compete/work ethic. You could give the edge to Jost for character, being a captain every where he goes, but both were the best interviews at the combine) per the blackbook. So i would say push in this category.
WhiteCurse
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New fans ? This team aint gaining new fans atm. Anyone crazy enough to be posting on a message board has been with this team for awhile now
mossey3535
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thefeebster
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I think whoever is drafting 4th has the toughest decision in the draft to make because of how tight these two players are right now, you could really argue each way.
If i did vote, i would lean towards PLD. And before anyone implies that it is because of his ability to play center, it isn't. I have long stated, that while PLD can play C at a high level, i see him as more effective as a RW and that is where i think he will settle in the NHL (So i see it as Dubois RW vs Tkachuk LW). But the team that drafts him wouldn't be doing their due diligence if they didn't at least try him at C. PLD just has very little weakness in his game but a lot of versatility, in terms of his usage on the ice, can impact the play in all 3 zones, and is continually improving. I don't see the criticism that he has bullied his way through the Q, a lot of his offense is generated off of his smarts, battle, and positioning, rather than brute force.
But on the other hand, Tkachuk is also very smart in the offensive zone, his vision is excellent, and i can see how some might say, offense comes more/very naturally to him. I think he has that "it" factor that is hard to find and that i can't quantify. I have also long argued that he wasn't a leech on the top line and was getting undue hate, he adds a lot to that line and in the few games at the beginning of the season without Marner/Dvorak, he was excellent and was the best player on the Knights IMO, while playing with Berisha/Piccinich or Sherwood. I am glad that his playoff run has opened up some eyes to his ability. But he does have some things to work on like his skating, which will need to get a bit better but i don't think it will hold him game back so much as his game doesn't revolve around speed (i likened his speed/skating style to a Brayden Schenn at this point), he takes a lot of bad penalties (in the playoffs, the joke on twitter was that for every bad penalty he took, he would have two points on the board), strength (needs some more to take the beatings at the NHL level) and a more concerted effort in the defensive zone would be nice (although i saw improvements over the course of the season).
You simply can't go wrong with either at 5. This is why we should keep the pick and take whichever one of these guys is there.
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coastal_nuck
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Yeah, if they trade this pick for anything less than a Drouin or player of that ilk, I'm done as a Canuck fan until the entire management team is gone.
Yeah, this is what I think will happen too. Could see the Habs taking Dubois 4th if they make a trade with Edmonton.
I agree. If Tkachuk plays centre he may very well win the poll (based on his name recognition and memorial cup performance). But the two prospects are considered to be close in talent to each other and I think most of us can agree that all else being equal, a 1st line centre prospect is preferred to a 1st line winger.
I'm not sure if posters are "blinded." For what it's worth, Eric Crawford under Gillis did a study and determined that the OHL, among other leagues, should be prioritized. I am not sure if I want that applied to a top pick, but I wouldn't mind using that study to break ties.
As for there not being a lot of top line Cs in the league that come from the Q, there aren't a lot of top C prospects that come from the Q. There's Bergeron and Giroux but neither of those guys were considered top 10 prospects in their respective draft years. There's Nathan MacKinnon, and he was certainly NHL ready. As was Couturier, although his offensive game hasn't really developed. Brassard is good.
I haven't made up my mind yet as I am still thinking. Right now, I'm leaning towards hoping that Dubois is the pick if the top 3 goes the way we all assume it would. Dubois had an excellent combine (granted Tkachuk didn't participate in the fitness tests). If these fitness tests matter, Dubois is strong and athletic.
Canucker
Go Hawks!
It frees them up since our need for a top four dmen just went down. That means whatever positional itch he had when looking at chrchyn, juolevi or sergchev and he can focus on forward/center.
It's argubly harder to be sure that a prospect is a top 4 dman vs top six forward in the first round.
biturbo19
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I think whoever is drafting 4th has the toughest decision in the draft to make because of how tight these two players are right now, you could really argue each way.
If i did vote, i would lean towards PLD. And before anyone implies that it is because of his ability to play center, it isn't. I have long stated, that while PLD can play C at a high level, i see him more as more effective as a RW and that is where i think he will settle in the NHL (So i see it as Dubois RW vs Tkachuk LW). But the team that drafts him wouldn't be doing their due diligence if they didn't at least try him at C. PLD just has very little weakness in his game but a lot of versatility, in terms of his usage on the ice, can impact the play in all 3 zones, and is continually improving. I don't see the criticism that he has bullied his way through the Q, a lot of his offense is generated off of his smarts, battle, and positioning, rather than brute force.
But on the other hand, Tkachuk is also very smart in the offensive zone, his vision is excellent, and i can see how some might say, offense comes more/very naturally to him. I think he has that "it" factor that is hard to find and that i can't quantify. I have also long argued that he wasn't a leech on the top line and was getting undue hate, he adds a lot to that line and in the few games at the beginning of the season without Marner/Dvorak, he was excellent and was the best player on the Knights IMO, while playing with Berisha/Piccinich or Sherwood. I am glad that his playoff run has opened up some eyes to his ability. But he does have some things to work on like his skating, which will need to get a bit better but i don't think it will hold him game back so much as his game doesn't revolve around speed (i likened his speed/skating style to a Brayden Schenn at this point), he takes a lot of bad penalties (in the playoffs, the joke on twitter was that for every bad penalty he took, he would have two points on the board), strength (needs some more to take the beatings at the NHL level) and a more concerted effort in the defensive zone would be nice (although i saw improvements over the course of the season).
You simply can't go wrong with either at 5. This is why we should keep the pick and take whichever one of these guys is there.
Very well said.
This really pretty much echoes my thoughts on it. I prefer Dubois, but it's not because i view him as a definite Center at the NHL level. It's worth trying, but i wouldn't put all of my eggs in that basket just yet.
Either way though, it'd be hard to go wrong with whichever of the two is there for us. They're both fantastic prospects.
Also it doesn't even matter "how many" centres come out of the Q any more than it mattered how many centres have come out of Slovenia when Kopitar was drafted.
Dubois is a tangible player with definable value, not a lottery odds based on selecting a random centre out of the Q. What did the lack of volume out of the Q matter when Crosby was ranked #1 or Mackinnon and Drouin were ranked top 4? It doesn't because you can objectively measure *those specific players* and their IQ, skill set, compete level, etc.
It's like being offered a lottery ticket with 5 of 6 numbers matching the winning draw but turning it down because it came from the 7-11 where no one has won before. At this point PLD has the size, skating, skills, character, and work ethic to be a top end player. People are actually going to ignore that because his league hasn't produced X number of centres in the past decade?
If so then wow ...
Love
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Haha very well said.
At times it can be very eye opening when we step back and look at our human logic (or lack thereof). Leon Draisaitl is another example similar to Kopitar.
I've never viewed Dubois as a permanent center, but having a guy who can move into the middle when need be and do so without issue is a massive boon in terms of versatility, especially if he can take faceoffs. It opens up so many options on the powerplay and in late-game situations.
Dubois is my first choice at 5th, if available.
However, he did say he prefers wing. Question is, how much better is he at wing than center? Is it like a 10 point difference or a 20 point difference?
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