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Player Discussion Matt Murray (G) - 4 years, $6.25M AAV

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I'm getting flash backs to the Brian Elliot years when our defence was also terrible. Elliot eventually went to St Louis and looked great in a much more defensively responsible system. I think we don't put enough stock in to how God awful our defence and team play has been in front of Murray so far this season. He hasn't looked settled in at all this season and I can't really blame him given how the team has played. Yes, he's had bad games but so has 95% of the team.
 
Matt Murray over his career

Evolvinghockey GSAx:
15/16: 3.05 (13 GP)
16/17: 16.99 (49 GP)
17/18: -7.6 (59 GP)
18/19: -0.08 (50 GP)
19/20: -12.98 (38 GP)
20/21: -7.31 (5 GP)


Moneypuck SV% above expected:
15/16: 0.874%
16/17: 0.62%
17/18: -0.261%
18/19: 0.05%
19/20: -1.084%
20/21: -2.915%

He has solid to good playoff numbers, but he hasn't had a good regular season since 16-17, and that is his only good regular season with decent sample size.
 
Joeyjoejoe said:
Not looking great so far. Still early so hopefully he makes some adjustments.


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Is that good? I think Dorion would look at this and show it to Melnyk and say "see Murry has the biggest bar"
 
When the puck is in your end for a disproportionate amount of time the odds are, your goals against is going to reflect this. It ain't rocket science!
 
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otown said:
When the puck is in your end for a disproportionate amount of time the odds are, your goals against is going to reflect this. It ain't rocket science!
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It's not about the goals against at this point unfortunately.. It's about the type of goals. The other night he couldn't control a floater and people we're quick to blame Gudbranson and Reilly but it was 100% on Murray.

He needs to control his rebounds better and he needs to be more confident and have better positioning. He's letting in goals that no NHL goalie should allow. The Juolevi goal is the perfect example, he sees the puck and it just goes in because he isn't in good position. That's an easy save for any goalie.

McLennan who's a former goalie talked about him and he's right, Murray has never proved to be a NHL starter in this league. He's played well for stretches but was never the guy until Fleury got traded. When Fleury got traded is when it all went south for him, he got outplayed by Jarry last year and was putrid the one before.


The two cups he won he wasn't the starter but Fleury didn't play well so he took over. He's never been a successful backbone to a team for an entire season, we've just seen stretches where he was very good and unfortunately much bigger stretches where he was really bad.

It's a much bigger story and timeline to look at than what you're suggesting. There's history here and he'll need to shake it off before we can trust that he'll be a good starter for us.
 
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If you are in the pipes for a Stanley Cup winner there is credibility that accompanies that. One can only hope that Murray can rediscover the form that got him there. Ottawa is a much different squad though, with the ice tilted a bit too much in his direction!
 
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otown said:
If you are in the pipes for a Stanley Cup winner there is credibility that accompanies that. One can only hope that Murray can rediscover the form that got him there. Ottawa is a much different squad though, with the ice tilted a bit too much in his direction!
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He’s not the same goalie. Pens had fantastic offensive teams but they also had a lot of defensive breakdowns that Murray bailed them out of, especially in 2016.
 
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So... was it not the exact same thing with Hogberg? He gave up a bad goal but was pretty solid the rest of the way. Still ended up with with 5 GA and a 0.857 SV%

Oh and the Canucks also had 2 posts

They haven't been standing on their heads but IT IS NOT THE GOALIES.


Boud said:
It's not about the goals against at this point unfortunately.. It's about the type of goals. The other night he couldn't control a floater and people we're quick to blame Gudbranson and Reilly but it was 100% on Murray.
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While Murray needed to find a way to not give up a juicy rebound, the puck was actually deflected down by Sutter, which surprised Murray who was going to glove it down. It took me several replays to notice that

Also, that play happened because of Stepan falling down and failing to clear the zone.
 
Xspyrit said:
So... was it not the exact same thing with Hogberg? He gave up a bad goal but was pretty solid the rest of the way. Still ended up with with 5 GA and a 0.857 SV%

Oh and the Canucks also had 2 posts

They haven't been standing on their heads but IT IS NOT THE GOALIES.




While Murray needed to find a way to not give up a juicy rebound, the puck was actually deflected down by Sutter, which surprised Murray who was going to glove it down. It took me several replays to notice that

Also, that play happened because of Stepan falling down and failing to clear the zone.
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I was happy to have Hogberg be a bad starting goalie for us this season.

I wasn’t ready to pay a guy $6.25 million to be bad for us.
 
He’s lucky he’s on a team here that can give him the luxury of time to put things together. Otherwise on most other teams he might be done for good.
Although with that contract. But who in their right minds would have signed him to that other than dohrion.
 
Tuna99 said:
I was happy to have Hogberg be a bad starting goalie for us this season.

I wasn’t ready to pay a guy $6.25 million to be bad for us.
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Again, Murray and Hogberg are not "bad", they are just "there", as symptoms of the team in front of them. Yes they gave up a few bad goals but all goalies do. You would put like 90% of NHL goalies and you'd have the same results, slightly better or slightly worse.

For Murray (and the Sens), everything was fine until that late 2nd period Jets PP in game #3. Matt Murray had a 0.910 SV%, Sens were 1-1 against the Leafs, leading 3-1 vs the Jets but then everything fell apart. Vets and their stupid penalties, the way that DJ Smith wanted to defend that lead, then his player usage in OT, the comments after the game, etc. That's when the train went completely off the tracks.

But agreed the contract is risky and premature (which summarizes Dorion in a vacuum). I don't know why, I thought the AAV was 5.25 until like Christmas, maybe because that's the maximum it should have been, and why not 2 years? Murray gets the time to re-prove himself and then get a better contract. Dorion prematurely wanted to save money, and it backfired (so far). Murray won't be able to do miracles. That's literally what is needed in front tof this team at the moment. BUT, it's very early, a lot can change during Murray's 4 years
 
Xspyrit said:
Again, Murray and Hogberg are not "bad", they are just "there", as symptoms of the team in front of them. Yes they gave up a few bad goals but all goalies do. You would put like 90% of NHL goalies and you'd have the same results, slightly better or slightly worse.

For Murray (and the Sens), everything was fine until that late 2nd period Jets PP in game #3. Matt Murray had a 0.910 SV%, Sens were 1-1 against the Leafs, leading 3-1 vs the Jets but then everything fell apart. Vets and their stupid penalties, the way that DJ Smith wanted to defend that lead, then his player usage in OT, the comments after the game, etc. That's when the train went completely off the tracks.

But agreed the contract is risky and premature (which summarizes Dorion in a vacuum). I don't know why, I thought the AAV was 5.25 until like Christmas, maybe because that's the maximum it should have been, and why not 2 years? Murray gets the time to re-prove himself and then get a better contract. Dorion prematurely wanted to save money, and it backfired (so far). Murray won't be able to do miracles. That's literally what is needed in front tof this team at the moment. BUT, it's very early, a lot can change during Murray's 4 years
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I don't believe that is Carey Price was in net for Ottawa they'd have a better record. No one on the ice can make a difference more then a goalie.

The goalies have cost them points.
 
Tuna99 said:
I don't believe that is Carey Price was in net for Ottawa they'd have a better record. No one on the ice can make a difference more then a goalie.
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Can you fix your sentence because it doesn't make sense like that

Also, I said 90% of NHL goalies wouldn't make any difference. Which means 10% would make a difference, but really not as much as you seem to think. It would take Hasek in his prime, and even then... we'd still lose most games.

Tuna99 said:
The goalies have cost them points.
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What???? Where exactly?

Game #2 where the Leafs totally dominated and Murray gave us a chance all game?

Game #3 vs the Jets in OT? Or even the tying goal when the team collapsed like crazy and when Coburn deflected the puck in while blocking his goalie's view?

Game #4 where the Jets controlled the game and we scored 1 goal?

Game #5 Hogberg in the 3rd period vs the Jets? The team completely fell apart... Shots were 20-4, SC were 17-3 and HDC were 10-1 for christ's sake

Game #6 vs the Canucks? 7-1 loss?

Game #7 vs the Canucks? 5-1 loss?

Your statement is NOT valid.
 
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Ed Wood said:
Simply not true. He played 49, 49 and 50 games in consecutive seasons. That makes him the starter.
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Successful is the key word.

He's never proved to be a successful starter. Last year he was beat out of his job by Tristan Jarry, the year before he was trash, and the year before he had Fleury to lean on. Go re-read my post maybe.

Playing 50 games makes you a starter, not a successful one.
 
Boud said:
Successful is the key word.

He's never proved to be a successful starter. Last year he was beat out of his job by Tristan Jarry, the year before he was trash, and the year before he had Fleury to lean on. Go re-read my post maybe.

Playing 50 games makes you a starter, not a successful one.
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How was his 18-19 season trash?
 
Xspyrit said:
Very few goalies will look good and/or have good stats on teams that have a deficient "team defense"

People were looking at the Sharks lineup last year thinking "hey they have those names, they should be good", but if you leak too many prime scoring chances against, you most likely won't be able to outscore the opposition on a regular basis because most teams priority is structure and team defense.

In the Sharks games I watched, they were bleeding high danger scoring chances. In terms of HDCA/60, Sharks were 27th, Sens were 24th. I suspect their coaching staff were trying to have the team to heavily focus on defense, they were 27th in GF/GP and the year before they were 3rd...

Matt Murray 2019-20 (out of 58 goalies with 1000+ TOI All Strenghts)

- 34th highest HDSA/60
- 26th in HDSV%
- 50th in SV%
- 16th lowest average shot distance

Matt Murray 2016-17 to 2018-19 (out of 56 goalies with 3000+ TOI All Strenghts)

- 10th highest HDSA/60
- 4th in HDSV%
- 17th in SV%
- 24th lowest average shot distance

The fact that Murray was 4th in HDSV% despite the 10th highest HDSA/60 shows he was really elite. Last year and the first 5 games this season isn't close to what he did before. He is only 26 y/o... So what is going on? Is it physical? Is it mental/confidence? Does he need the right goalie coach? Is he done? Is it a bad career stretch?

Maybe getting a goalie that needs to "re-find" his game wasn't the best idea, not with that group and team defense lol. I assume his stats will be really bad this year. You have to hope that he can bounce back next year IF we have a better structure in front of him and get some defensive help (Sanderson? Brannstrom? JBD? Trade/UFA? Faster/better forwards? New coaching staff? Etc)

But as long as we have the Melnyk/Dorion/DJ trifecta, I'm not super optimistic about the NHL team.
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Murray was elite in 2017 and for a couple months in 2019 when the team really collapsed around the net.. that’s it though. He’s mostly been a shell of what he was from 2015 (best AHL goalie ever) to 2017.
 
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